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On February 04 2012 10:43 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 10:33 tuho12345 wrote:On February 04 2012 09:24 Zeetox wrote:
MMA said in interview for SK: "TvP has change since BW. [...] Now in SC2 you have to be very aggresive, do many drops and just be aggresive so Protoss can't max up to 200 supply and roll over you with his army. At this stage of the matchup I think Terran can't win if he doesn't drop and plays aggresively, because in straight up macro game, where both players just max out, Terran can't really win."
Problem is, it's hard to be aggresive unless you are MMA. You need a lot of APM to avoid blink stalkers and HTs with dropships, dropping at 2-3 places at a time. Absolutely true, I played main as Protoss at the beginning and just got a new account as Terran for 2 months. Even at top diamond Terran I could lose to a platinum Protoss easily in a 200 vs 200 battle with much better micro and upgrade. Now I figure out I must attack at all cost with the initial 24 units army I had to slow Protoss down and denying the third base as much as possible. Playing TvP is really much harder than PvT for me now. I don't agree with him at all. I think he is forgetting that late game Terran doesn't actually need more than 20-30 workers and his army will actually be much larger than the Protoss army (one of the reasons why splitting his army is a good idea). Yes I agree that you have to be aggressive at times (like trying to snipe key units like sentrys, colos, ht, even stalkers). But don't hate on the Protoss for not always being the aggressor either. Remember all the times you played Protoss and you lost just because you decided to be a little bit aggressive. It simply doesn't pay for the smaller protoss army to be out on the map most of the time, thus Protoss has to resort to defense and mass warp-ins or blink stalkers to get map presence without risking the game outright. edit: Diamond Toss who loses to Plat Terran all the time btw. It doesn't really mean that much, and with all the inactive people in Diamond I actually think a good number of Platinum players are better :S
There is no chance that terran would ever get to make mass orbitals (Just implying this since I don't think any terran will just sacrifice over half of their scvs just to have bigger army, but bad economy) against toss in TvP even in late game due to how minerals heavy bio play is already. Theoretically terran shouldn't ever be in 200/200 supply against toss, because you want to trade and pressure as much as possible you can in the match up, while having some leeway to adjust your unit composition to better to combat his (more marines if he is zealots heavy etc.) when the eventual last battle comes.
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On February 04 2012 08:50 Blezza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 08:28 Cloud9157 wrote:
And Zergs wonder why I 6gate all in at all..
Because Mutas are the most retarded unit in the game pretty much. I proposed this idea before, but Mutas need to have 3 supply. They are WAY too effective for 100/100 2 supply. Stop being so one dimensional, ZvT is already slightly terran favoured and you want Mutalisks 3 supply??? A Protoss buff would make more sense a the race needs a buff anyway. Zerg isnt overpowered, Protoss is underpowered.
This man speaks the truth. But maybe I'm just biased towards my race. :x
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On February 02 2012 19:12 osmanic wrote:
protoss hope dies slowly
Were used to it same in BW had like 2 good years that's it.
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On February 04 2012 13:30 Tiegrr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 08:50 Blezza wrote:On February 04 2012 08:28 Cloud9157 wrote:
And Zergs wonder why I 6gate all in at all..
Because Mutas are the most retarded unit in the game pretty much. I proposed this idea before, but Mutas need to have 3 supply. They are WAY too effective for 100/100 2 supply. Stop being so one dimensional, ZvT is already slightly terran favoured and you want Mutalisks 3 supply??? A Protoss buff would make more sense a the race needs a buff anyway. Zerg isnt overpowered, Protoss is underpowered. This man speaks the truth. But maybe I'm just biased towards my race. :x
Well judging by the charts, I don't think it is bias. Protoss is losing more often than not to both Zerg and Terran...
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Color choice fail. Why isnt terran red and zerg purple? Just sayin.
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On February 04 2012 14:13 RexFTW wrote:
Color choice fail. Why isnt terran red and zerg purple? Just sayin.
It's a standard that goes back to broodwar. Anyways, it's interesting to here idra saying "Zerg can't beat Protoss" while Zerg is enjoying a 17 point advantage over Protoss in results (the biggest advantage in the last year). It's also nice to see how TvZ is stabilizing nicely (49.7%-50.3% is pretty damn close for a matchup).
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insteaad of foreign protoss being bad maybe FOREIGN zergs are BETTER then Korean zergs. Let that sink in...
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On February 04 2012 15:14 aTiMaGikL wrote:
insteaad of foreign protoss being bad maybe FOREIGN zergs are BETTER then Korean zergs. Let that sink in...
I have yet to see a foreign zerg get even close to the lvl of Nestea/DRG/Leenock.
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On February 04 2012 15:31 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 15:14 aTiMaGikL wrote:
insteaad of foreign protoss being bad maybe FOREIGN zergs are BETTER then Korean zergs. Let that sink in... I have yet to see a foreign zerg get even close to the lvl of Nestea/DRG/Leenock.
Yeah lol foreign zergs being better then korean zergs is way off just like how very very very few foreign terrans look anywhere as good as korean terrans.
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On February 02 2012 17:55 pZu wrote:
ZvP sick!
if i read this right, the matchup idra and other zergs say is UNWINABLE for zerg vs protoss, zerg win nearly 60% and the hugest winratio ever ?
give zerg an "i win" button, otherwise they wont stop it 
ps: zvt seems pretty nice balanced, but seeing protoss down in both matchups makes me sad
On February 04 2012 15:31 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 15:14 aTiMaGikL wrote:
insteaad of foreign protoss being bad maybe FOREIGN zergs are BETTER then Korean zergs. Let that sink in... I have yet to see a foreign zerg get even close to the lvl of Nestea/DRG/Leenock.
2 words, Dimaga Stephano
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On February 02 2012 18:06 thezanursic wrote:
Fuck yeah this fucking proves two things zerg is the easiest race to play and the game is pretty balance.
how is this has to do with the "easiest race to play"?
i think we all know why the forgien pvz is what it is...
foreign protoss dont know how to play pvz as koreans protoss players do
example: most foreign protoss players all in alot because they are afraid of zerg lategame
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On February 02 2012 17:59 Medrea wrote:
Another winrate chart. Another thread where people demonstrate they dont know how to read charts. before posting remember the following.
The chart is listed from 40 to 60 percent, which is fine since 40/60 is the breakpoint of the game.
The trend line is a running average of the last several months, 3 I believe.
The bars indicate the winrates of that particular month.
What the hell?40-60 is the break point? Where did you learn statistics...
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Wow look at those Korean stats.
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On February 04 2012 09:26 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 09:24 Zeetox wrote:
MMA said in interview for SK: "TvP has change since BW. [...] Now in SC2 you have to be very aggresive, do many drops and just be aggresive so Protoss can't max up to 200 supply and roll over you with his army. At this stage of the matchup I think Terran can't win if he doesn't drop and plays aggresively, because in straight up macro game, where both players just max out, Terran can't really win."
Problem is, it's hard to be aggresive unless you are MMA. You need a lot of APM to avoid blink stalkers and HTs with dropships, dropping at 2-3 places at a time. I fully agree with what MMA said. If you let Protoss max out without damaging them somehow, its going to be very difficult to kill them. Dropping and killing the forges is what you need to do. Delay our upgrades = harsh blow.
sounds like BW Mech to me. Damage it, or die vs it.
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On February 04 2012 18:57 OzRe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 18:06 thezanursic wrote:
Fuck yeah this fucking proves two things zerg is the easiest race to play and the game is pretty balance. how is this has to do with the "easiest race to play"? i think we all know why the forgien pvz is what it is... foreign protoss dont know how to play pvz as koreans protoss players do example: most foreign protoss players all in alot because they are afraid of zerg lategame
I think people saying things like this are looking at the winrates in korea are only looking at the size of the bars in the graphs and not the actual numbers. Theres is a still a huge discrepancy in the winrate in korean PvZ just because it's not as big as it is for foreign PvZ doesn't mean korean protosses aren't getting crushed as well.
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On February 04 2012 16:11 CoR wrote:if i read this right, the matchup idra and other zergs say is UNWINABLE for zerg vs protoss, zerg win nearly 60% and the hugest winratio ever ? give zerg an "i win" button, otherwise they wont stop it ps: zvt seems pretty nice balanced, but seeing protoss down in both matchups makes me sad Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 15:31 Assirra wrote:On February 04 2012 15:14 aTiMaGikL wrote:
insteaad of foreign protoss being bad maybe FOREIGN zergs are BETTER then Korean zergs. Let that sink in... I have yet to see a foreign zerg get even close to the lvl of Nestea/DRG/Leenock. 2 words, Dimaga Stephano
First off, cut out non Korean statistics. These include the daily SC2 Cups, etc, which can place a Bronze Protoss vs a GM Zerg.
When looking at Korean statistics, PvT has been Protoss favored the past 2/3 months of the most recent patch. Not sure how you can consider that being "Protoss down".
On February 04 2012 20:04 Raggamuffinoo wrote:
No one is discussing the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade. The outright removal of the upgrade confused most people, surely there is some room for tweaking the amount of energy given (See: BroodWar).
If the amulet upgrade was reintroduced in a lesser form, surely this would begin to balance protoss further. I do not think buffing the pheonix or cannons, as has been suggested, is the answer.
Buffing the KA would break PvT even more is the problem. I can't really speak for PvZ as I don't follow the metagame, etc, while it sounds like mutas are a huge issue, KA isn't the way to solve it.
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No one is discussing the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade. The outright removal of the upgrade confused most people, surely there is some room for tweaking the amount of energy given (See: BroodWar).
If the amulet upgrade was reintroduced in a lesser form, surely this would begin to balance protoss further. I do not think buffing the pheonix or cannons, as has been suggested, is the answer.
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If P learns to play macro games i garantuee you that zvp will shift again to P favour (Brown vs Losira might be good example of this). P in lategame is just overall stronger; every unit u make in lategame is just good... wich is not true about zerg.
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Unless you're a pro or tip top level player these stats shouldn't affect you in any way shape or form, the game is only imbalanced on the highest level of play, but people seem to think they're equivalent to korean pros when it comes to balance, just keep playing and improving instead of getting fixated on numbers.
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Northern Ireland26556 Posts
On February 04 2012 20:15 Veriol wrote:
If P learns to play macro games i garantuee you that zvp will shift again to P favour (Brown vs Losira might be good example of this). P in lategame is just overall stronger; every unit u make in lategame is just good... wich is not true about zerg. No it isn't, Zerg lategame is comparable if not better with Infestor/BL, it depends on the map as well. I await to see more of Brown's PvZ, looked interesting but I'm not sure how much of it is actually his style's strengths, and how much is just other players being unfamiliar with his style.
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EPT
