TLPD Winrate Charts: January

On February 02 2012 17:56 isleyofthenorth wrote:
lol zvt has been in negative for zerg 12 CONSECUTIVE months

On February 02 2012 18:10 Nocteo wrote:


It has been near 50% aswell. Difference isn't that big.

On February 02 2012 17:56 TrickyGilligan wrote:
Lol not sure what happened to the international Protoss. Considering Korea isn't even close to similar though, going to have to assume it's a fluke.

On February 02 2012 18:19 Elem wrote:
Korean Zergs never upgrade that's why the ZvP is balanced there. Meanwhile foreign zergs have realised that upgrades are insane for Ling based armies and expand more agressively. Not to mention foreign protoss seem to neglect the warp prism again.

On February 02 2012 18:22 blade55555 wrote:


lol thats the best you can come up with for the like 50% zvp in kr?

On February 02 2012 18:25 Elem wrote:
No, but it contributes a lot. To believe that those were only reasons would be ridiculous. I'm sorry if you took it literally.

On February 02 2012 18:27 blade55555 wrote:


From the average user on TL I wouldn't have been surprised if you were serious. Hard to see sarcasm in text ^^.

On February 02 2012 18:33 Primadog wrote:
Can someone shed light on the ZvP metagame? What changed?

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 02 2012 18:46 Mirosuu wrote:
Korea Protoss looks so different to International Protoss because they actually have learned how to defend against Mutas now. They've been a part of the metagame for so long in Korea so they've adapted, but in the International scene, it's only just started to become popular. Nothing else to it really.

On February 02 2012 18:48 vizir wrote:
Nothing wrong with ZvP. Mutalisk play is just too easy to execute compared to how hard it is to counter as P. Korean Ps are just so sickly good that muta isn't problem for them hence the balance.

You do realize the pvz winrates between KR and international are 3% apart right? Yeah, there's a big tvp gap, but those gosu korean protosses are still getting pretty overwhelmed in pvz.

On February 02 2012 18:47 KAmaKAsa wrote:
hey protosses, i think zergs know how to hold your 7 gate +2 blink stalker all ins... not saying idra knows it... but most people do

On February 02 2012 18:34 bartus88 wrote:
Zerg has a winrate of 55%+ in ZvP in both regions, and IdrA still claims Protoss is overpowered.

I wonder if he will ever realise it's his personal mindset that makes him lose, not imbalance. My guess is no.

On February 02 2012 18:48 vizir wrote:
Nothing wrong with ZvP. Mutalisk play is just too easy to execute compared to how hard it is to counter as P. Korean Ps are just so sickly good that muta isn't problem for them hence the balance.

On February 02 2012 18:51 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Protoss. We are oppressed (.

It's okay. We'll show them what's up!

Still, I need to learn how to better deal with muta play and Roach spam. Such a pain in the ass .


Z nerf inc? :S

Fuck yeah this fucking proves two things zerg is the easiest race to play and the game is pretty balance.

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 02 2012 18:55 Dbla08 wrote:


lol didn't take long for the first idiot to chime in.


good to see everything becoming very very close in korea, foreign protoss need to learn how to go beyond 2 base and they'll see the winrates go up

On February 02 2012 18:56 nam nam wrote:

Many successful protosses 2 base against zergs. Also did you just say Grubby have reached his skill ceiling?

On February 02 2012 18:55 SafeAsCheese wrote:



When will forumfools realize that these stats have nothing to do with the highest level of competition?

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 02 2012 19:16 JJH777 wrote:
Suprised Zerg is over 50% in Korea considering the extremely poor code s performance of zergs so far. What is there besides the Code S games? The Korean weekly I guess?

On February 02 2012 19:19 Killmouse wrote:

code A, KSL, ESV

On February 02 2012 18:55 SafeAsCheese wrote:



When will forumfools realize that these stats have nothing to do with the highest level of competition?

On February 02 2012 19:18 thezanursic wrote:

Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 02 2012 19:31 wBsKillian wrote:
Lol and my ZvP is my worst while ZvT seems sooo easy to me oO

On February 02 2012 19:29 MrBitter wrote:
Jesus, I have to figure out what other foreigner Zergs are doing differently. I can win ZvP to save my life.

On February 02 2012 20:12 Jankisa wrote:
In my opinion part of the problem with the international PvZ is that only real counter to muta is 2 base all in, and outside of Korea all ins are still frowned upon, and protoss players are tying to play macro.

Also a part of this month chart problem is that it seems like White-Ra is on vacation and all other Euro/USA protoss superstars are in Korea (except Grubby, Feast, Bling, Hasu [haven't seen Socke for a while]).

On February 02 2012 20:23 yNx wrote:
3 immortals vs 5-4 bunkers = immortal victory.
Someone has to call down the nerfstick on that unit. Reduce building damage or reduce its range.

On February 02 2012 20:23 yNx wrote:
3 immortals vs 5-4 bunkers = immortal victory.
Someone has to call down the nerfstick on that unit. Reduce building damage or reduce its range.

On February 02 2012 17:56 TrickyGilligan wrote:
Lol not sure what happened to the international Protoss. Considering Korea isn't even close to similar though, going to have to assume it's a fluke.

On February 02 2012 19:10 xrapture wrote:
Hrm, interesting. I haven't played in a couple months because watching Terran get nerfed every patch because of Koreans was starting to get disheartening, but maybe now there will be less whining and I can actually play the game without being told how op my race is every 5 minutes.

On February 02 2012 20:58 secretary bird wrote:


lol no, people whine no matter what but you should either block communication or stop caring about these idiots.

Just look at this thread:

See Zerg is strongest -> whine about ZvT. Just hopeless.

On February 02 2012 19:31 wBsKillian wrote:
Lol and my ZvP is my worst while ZvT seems sooo easy to me oO

On February 02 2012 21:03 Artok wrote:

2 zergs left in gsl, obviously strongest, nestea picking drg for zvz and stating that other match ups are hard, zerg strongest for sure. You are mentally handicapped, aren't you?

On February 02 2012 21:03 Artok wrote:

2 zergs left in gsl, obviously strongest, nestea picking drg for zvz and stating that other match ups are hard, zerg strongest for sure. You are mentally handicapped, aren't you?

On February 02 2012 18:06 jliu wrote:
Oh my gosh. Why the ZvP disparity?
edit: Nevermind see above post - probably mutas & getting better at holding 2-base all-ins.

On February 02 2012 21:31 rilma wrote:


I don't think it's that lol

On February 02 2012 21:31 rilma wrote:


I don't think it's that lol

On February 02 2012 21:39 Excludos wrote:


it is, actually. First off a protoss going lategame vs zerg is suicide as the zerg lategame army is close to unbeatable. Even with mothership it can so easily backfire because of NP. So a lot of the good tosses have been doing 2base allins a lot, as that seems to be what has worked the most. But as Zergs generally adapt to allins over time, it, obviously, starts working less and less.

And then theres the mutalisks which, even with several stalkers and canons, can oneshot an entire mineral line when you get enough of them. And then be back to defend before lunch as the unit is incredibly fast and very strong vs stalker. Or just basetrade, and they will win most if not every single time. Even if the protoss decides to turtle up the zerg can easily take every other base on the map and be so far ahead.

The only real option for toss is scouting the mutalisks well before they arrive (or metagame by seeing spines), and be ready with blinkstalkers and canons. And even then its incredibly hard to take a third base and near impossible to take a fourth. Archons are nice, but like thors, when the mutaball gets large enough to oneshot them, you can spread them out and defend anymore. HT works well, but mutalisks are so fast its actually incredibly hard to hit a good storm. And even then you'll at most do 50% dmg to the ones you hit. At which point the muts just run away and regens.

On February 02 2012 18:33 Primadog wrote:
Can someone shed light on the ZvP metagame? What changed?

On February 02 2012 22:22 Badfatpanda wrote:


Mutas lol, it's one of those things though that when players start to find an efficient way to deal with mutas without taking significant economic losses, the international WR's will jump back into place, but the Korean MU is still quite close, actually in all 3 matchups

On February 02 2012 17:58 Cascade wrote:
So is the conclusion that foreign protoss players are bad?

It would be nice if you could add a shaded error-area to the lines (they are some running average I guess?), because as it is now it is tempting to say that there is a difference between two lines when they are only a fraction of an error-bar apart. Thanks, nice graphs.

On February 02 2012 23:01 cyclone25 wrote:
I like how the protoss posters on this thread are 100% ignoring the korean ZvP win rates.

On February 02 2012 23:06 ReturnStroke wrote:
Lol, now I can blame the game on my terrible PvZ.

On February 02 2012 22:07 wo1fwood wrote:

OP should edit that in so people pay more attention to the graphs.

International Y axis %40-60
Korean Y axis %20-80

Just for reference, here are the PvZ winrates:
PvZ Int: 41.2/58.8
PvZ Kor: 44.9/55.1

On February 02 2012 23:15 Gara wrote:


I really think the OP should start normalizing the axes to something like 20% - 80% for both international and Korean data sets; it might make data harder to see, but that way there would be no confusion whatsoever when comparing the two. The whole point of graphing it is to have a accurate visual representation, and while there's nothing wrong with the way it's set up right now, it would be easier to interpret if the axes were all the same.

On February 02 2012 21:52 Big J wrote:


actually those stats are not about silver leaguers who can't get thirds up against zerg, but about progamers who have thirds at the time zerg has mutalisks and about progamers who will go into exile if they ever got a mothership NPed.

furthermore hardly anything has changed in Zerg gameplay in the last month, so why did the winrates change?

On February 02 2012 21:52 Big J wrote:


actually those stats are not about silver leaguers who can't get thirds up against zerg, but about progamers who have thirds at the time zerg has mutalisks and about progamers who will go into exile if they ever got a mothership NPed.

furthermore hardly anything has changed in Zerg gameplay in the last month, so why did the winrates change?

On February 02 2012 23:40 -_- wrote:



Protoss can't have a safe third by the time Zerg gets Mutalisks.

I think Zerg has been doing better because 1) Zergs are getting better at Mass Muta mass spore spine play and 2) mass infestor mass broodlord and spine is a composition that is not beatable by any Protoss composition, not even carrier, mothership, templar, stalker, collosus, archon, voidray.

On February 02 2012 23:37 jdsowa wrote:
The difference between 60:40 and 50:50 is a one game swing in a 10-game series. That's hardly significant enough to make the game unplayable or explain why you suck as a player. Time to move on.

On February 03 2012 00:08 haffy wrote:


How can you say something like that? Do you honestly think anyone has played or watched enough of the match up to say Protoss can NEVER get a safe third. Or that NO composition can beat Zergs. Because I think your being melodramatic.

On February 02 2012 23:37 jdsowa wrote:
The difference between 60:40 and 50:50 is a one game swing in a 10-game series. That's hardly significant enough to make the game unplayable or explain why you suck as a player. Time to move on.

On February 03 2012 00:12 Charger wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but is this across all leagues and players?

On February 02 2012 22:27 Louis8k8 wrote:
Wtf, why the 41 : 59 PvZ ratio o___O. Is it that imbalanced? Has there ever been as severe imbalance as this in any MU since release?

Is there' a ladder version? It might be less imbalanced.

On February 03 2012 00:20 -TesteR- wrote:


Biggest skew since release.

On February 02 2012 23:01 cyclone25 wrote:
I like how the protoss posters on this thread are 100% ignoring the korean ZvP win rates.

On February 02 2012 23:31 Ctuchik wrote:


I will probably do just that next month. 20-80 seems like a good compromise between readability and still being able to show all the Korean data points.

On February 03 2012 00:14 Excludos wrote:


Theres a difference between "a third" and a "safe" third. Of course there are players who gets thirds. I do it in nearly every game, mutalisks or not. But that doesn't mean I don't take heavy losses in the process if the zerg players knows how to play. On top of that lategame PvZ is fairly onsesided atm with broodlord infestor composition. Mothership can work (and when it does its hilariously stupid), but for the most part zerg is really hard to beat lategame nowadays.

On February 03 2012 01:07 fritfrat wrote:
People can't read graphs at all, this is embarassing. The Korean PvZ presents like it's not even statistically different than the international PvZ! Just because the korean graph goes up to 80 instead of 60 and makes it look more even, everyone is reaching big conclusions how it's better in korea than internationally.

On February 02 2012 18:06 thezanursic wrote:
Fuck yeah this fucking proves two things zerg is the easiest race to play and the game is pretty balance.

On February 03 2012 01:17 wo1fwood wrote:
There's a %7.4 difference in PvZ win rates between Korea and International, that's not different?

Edit: oh, I didn't look at the sample size, interesting.

On February 03 2012 01:48 Gevna wrote:

From what I see, there is a 3.7% difference not 7.4%. Unless I'm missing something.

On February 02 2012 18:06 thezanursic wrote:
Fuck yeah this fucking proves two things zerg is the easiest race to play and the game is pretty balance.

On February 03 2012 01:54 Roxy wrote:
Interesting:

International:
All of the terran QQ vs protoss is unwarranted
PvT is balanced.
TvZ is balanced
Muta QQ is completely warranted. The protoss were right all along.


Korea:
PvT is balanced.
TvZ is balanced
ZvP... lololol.. zerg QQ.. ya... the protosses were right

On February 03 2012 02:11 Snowbear wrote:


I think if you only look at tvp macro games, you will see that it's very p favoured. Atm the graph is more close because of terran allins

On February 03 2012 01:54 Roxy wrote:
Interesting:

International:
All of the terran QQ vs protoss is unwarranted
PvT is balanced.
TvZ is balanced
Muta QQ is completely warranted. The protoss were right all along.


Korea:
PvT is balanced.
TvZ is balanced
ZvP... lololol.. zerg QQ.. ya... the protosses were right

On February 03 2012 02:11 Roxy wrote:
When blizzard said they are okay with a 5% disparity, does that mean they want:

47.5% vs 52.5% winrate?
or
45% vs 55% winrate?

On February 03 2012 02:18 Jakkerr wrote:


Prolly the first one

On February 03 2012 02:11 Roxy wrote:
When blizzard said they are okay with a 5% disparity, does that mean they want:

47.5% vs 52.5% winrate?
or
45% vs 55% winrate?

On February 03 2012 01:54 Skwid1g wrote:


Z is winning 3.7% more, P is losing 3.7% more. So there's a 7.4% difference.

It's like if you have a 50/50 match-up and give 10% more to 1 side it becomes 60/40.

On February 03 2012 02:18 Jakkerr wrote:


Prolly the first one

On February 03 2012 02:10 Roxy wrote:
What do you guys think is more of a problem in ZvP?

Mutas
or Brood lord / Infestor?

how bad do you think it would be if they got rid of the stupidest ability in the game: archon toilet?

On February 03 2012 02:10 Roxy wrote:
What do you guys think is more of a problem in ZvP?

Mutas
or Brood lord / Infestor?

how bad do you think it would be if they got rid of the stupidest ability in the game: archon toilet?

On February 03 2012 02:27 Big J wrote:


The "problem" is 3hatch. Zerg at 10mins right now always has more workers, more bases and the better open field composition in all the games that last longer than 12min and don't include a huge trade.
From there on it's usually uphill for P, no matter what the composition is.

On February 03 2012 02:11 Roxy wrote:
When blizzard said they are okay with a 5% disparity, does that mean they want:

47.5% vs 52.5% winrate?
or
45% vs 55% winrate?

On February 03 2012 02:49 SpaceYeti wrote:
I think FFE is to blame for the current ZvP disparity. FFE seems to be the only thing I ever see P do anymore in the match up on the NA ladder. Not that FFE is a bad opener, but the the fact that is it a very passive opener combined with how reliably P-players are doing it plays right into the Z-player's hands, imo.

On February 03 2012 02:33 Sabu113 wrote:


I mostly agree with you J. Every problem started since the Third Hatch became pretty safe to take quickly. I think the more fundamental issue is that spore burrow time change. Air openings were trending to tbe the standard stable opening of the matchup and it made sense. It took care of a lot of funky roach allin/aggression play while with moderate commitment could deny the third/ make it very costly to hold and provide adequate scouting.

Mutas are a huge problem and the speed at which they can be gotten with the third contributes to the issue but if after seeing the past few months of mutas in ZvP you disagree then we might as well bench the topic.

Late game BL/infestor looks impossible to kill off because of the toss need to trade cost effectively. Without the mothership.... very curious how HoTS is going to work ZvP. Still given that you need the mofo it doesn't seem like BL infestor is catching players without a preset response so the late game seems pretty evenish at the viewing level.

On February 03 2012 03:06 StatikKhaos wrote:
people need to make sure they look at korean stats only,
if you dont its like watching second graders play starcraft and being like
hm from these second graders games i can conclude this:
(and when you look at tournament results how good a player is can also affect it,
like did they count games like losria vs ailuj)

that said i am zerg soooooo you can ignore me for the most part

On February 03 2012 02:27 Big J wrote:


The "problem" is 3hatch. Zerg at 10mins right now always has more workers, more bases and the better open field composition in all the games that last longer than 12min and don't include a huge trade.
From there on it's usually uphill for P, no matter what the composition is.

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 03 2012 03:10 Big J wrote:



I'm not saying that mutalisks are bad or something. But in my eyes they are mostly a composition that is used to win a game safely after getting ahead. I haven't seen a lot of Ps lose to mutas if they got a fast third and matched the Zergs workercount. So the question that remains in my eyes is, how to make this possible.

Broodlord/Infestor/corruptor is kind of similar. When P has a stalkerbased composition in the endgame, they are imo behind in the ressources and therefore have to use "cheap" gateway units instead of void rays/phoenix/carrier/Archon/HT as antiair.
Take MVP vs Lucky for example: lategame MVP trades every single marine down and replaces it with ghosts. Or Vikings.
Right now I don't see Protoss doing this, neither do I ever see them getting in a position where they can do this.


HotS will change everything in PvZ imo.
Right now I don't see 3hatch being viable against the standard phoenix voidray combo, if you add an oracle against spores and (2base hydra allins). I think one base always has to go down in that scenario if properly played by the protoss.
On the other hand 2base zerg should be more potent with swarm hosts and vipers against tech unit pushes.
Also the Tempest as it has been shown right now, counter corruptors, so Broodlords seem to be very limited in PvZ lategame to begin with, hydras on the other hand with the speed upgrade and vipers (and hopefully a small buff ) could become very potent.

On February 03 2012 03:16 Excludos wrote:


Talking about HOTS is kinda pointless at this..point. Seeing as, most likely, none of the units showed at last years blizzcon will make it into the game in that state. You have one thing right thought. The game will change. But we can't possibly know how yet. For all we know it might get normal for zergs to triple expand against ffe..

On February 02 2012 17:56 HaXXspetten wrote:
Korea looking good.
Outside, mutas are still wrecking havoc in ZvP it seems

On February 03 2012 03:22 VPVanek wrote:
Protoss needs a buff.

On February 02 2012 17:56 TrickyGilligan wrote:
Lol not sure what happened to the international Protoss. Considering Korea isn't even close to similar though, going to have to assume it's a fluke.

On February 03 2012 03:41 Incognoto wrote:
The stats are interesting but are a very vague indicator of balance. Think PvZ pre-bisu and after bisu.

On February 03 2012 02:23 TheDougler wrote:


I'd love to see a ZvP of IdrA vs Naniwa. BATTLE OF THE "IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP" lol.

On February 03 2012 03:56 Wombat_NI wrote:

The guys don't like the matchup

JYP is a good player but gets hammered in PvT. Some matches just don't suit a player's strengths or weaknesses, or they get a mental block over it lol.

On February 03 2012 03:11 deathly rat wrote:


The fast 3 hatch is a meta game response to forge first expand. P wants to play very greedy so makes no units, but Z cannot break the front directly, so the only option is to take 3 fast bases. If it were the other way around and it were viable for Z to wall off and rely on static defense the P could do exactly the same thing.

Also, any game in which supplies are equal is a game that Z is losing, so your argument about better composition is wrong.

On February 03 2012 04:05 mordk wrote:

Difference is JYP seems to understand it's his fault he's so bad at PvT.

Idra insists it's the game's fault or something that he sucks in ZvP.

On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game

On February 03 2012 04:05 mordk wrote:

Difference is JYP seems to understand it's his fault he's so bad at PvT.

Idra insists it's the game's fault or something that he sucks in ZvP.

On February 03 2012 03:28 IrOnKaL wrote:

Im masters NA and I rarely see / lose to mutas anymore. Now it's mass broods for me. Time to start whipping out mothership :D

On February 03 2012 04:05 mordk wrote:

Difference is JYP seems to understand it's his fault he's so bad at PvT.

Idra insists it's the game's fault or something that he sucks in ZvP.

On February 03 2012 04:42 meadbert wrote:
Idra does not suck at ZvP.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/detailed-elo#tblt-6706-1-default-0-idra

Idra's best matchup is ZvP, while his worst is ZvZ but he still complains about Protoss. I guess complaining about the mirror match being imbalanced would sound even sillier.

On February 03 2012 02:11 Snowbear wrote:


I think if you only look at tvp macro games, you will see that it's very p favoured. Atm the graph is more close because of terran allins

On February 02 2012 18:34 bartus88 wrote:
Zerg has a winrate of 55%+ in ZvP in both regions, and IdrA still claims Protoss is overpowered.

I wonder if he will ever realise it's his personal mindset that makes him lose, not imbalance. My guess is no.

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 03 2012 04:49 wo1fwood wrote:

Wrong thread, here's the correct one:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=308394

On February 02 2012 21:11 OpTiKDream wrote:
sometimes i just get the feeling this is all a big troll attempt to get blizzard buffing protoss more.

On February 03 2012 05:25 DaveVAH wrote:



The Creator of this graph is a Protoss player. Anyone double checking his numbers?

His scaling--As noted by many-- is already pretty deceiving.

On February 02 2012 18:44 Pinna wrote:
Protoss's just need to get it that foreign protoss's are horrible. The best foreign protoss I can come up with is Huk/SaSe, and Huk has terrible PvZ, about SaSes I don't know. But the others like Grubby who only all-ins and HasuObs who is just bad overall, I don't see the foreign Protoss's getting anywhere. The only reason that the likes of Grubby win even on ladder is the fact that on ladder, 2base all-ins are good.

Also, because the Protoss race is so easy overall, you can hit the skillceiling really fast with it, which I think happened to both Grubby and Hasuobs. 2base all-ins just cant get you so far.

On February 03 2012 05:25 DaveVAH wrote:



The Creator of this graph is a Protoss player. Anyone double checking his numbers?

His scaling--As noted by many-- is already pretty deceiving.