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On July 16 2012 08:20 ejozl wrote:
Carriers are the end-all be-all, lategame army composition for PvP endgame.
In PvZ they are the endgame better versions of Stalkers.
In PvT they can be the answer to mech, but vs standard Terran, they don't really have a place, which is funny because in the beta it was all Carriers/Voidrays vs Terrans late game.
...please stop talking, just ... just shussssh. Carriers are awesome, but they do not counter mech. I dont know if you've heard`? But when terrans go mech they get this magical unit, it's known only as THOR. And when Thor comes and sees a carrier he starts lol'ing, takin names, and countin ladder points. 
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United Kingdom12068 Posts
On August 18 2012 19:43 Rossen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 08:20 ejozl wrote:
Carriers are the end-all be-all, lategame army composition for PvP endgame.
In PvZ they are the endgame better versions of Stalkers.
In PvT they can be the answer to mech, but vs standard Terran, they don't really have a place, which is funny because in the beta it was all Carriers/Voidrays vs Terrans late game.
...please stop talking, just ... just shussssh. Carriers are awesome, but they do not counter mech. I dont know if you've heard`? But when terrans go mech they get this magical unit, it's known only as THOR. And when Thor comes and sees a carrier he starts lol'ing, takin names, and countin ladder points.
Uhh, the thors actually suck against carriers. I play mech on the ladder all day every day and if you're caught with only thors against carriers as mech you just die. Seriously. You need a bunch of turrets and vikings to deal with carriers as mech and if those are not ready it's so horrible to see the carriers roll in. Especially if they have void support too T_T
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On August 18 2012 19:43 Rossen wrote:...please stop talking, just ... just shussssh. Carriers are awesome, but they do not counter mech. I dont know if you've heard`? But when terrans go mech they get this magical unit, it's known only as THOR. And when Thor comes and sees a carrier he starts lol'ing, takin names, and countin ladder points.
Thors vs Carriers ? wut ?
Free points for toss ;D
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MC demolished KAS in the last game in his best of 3 in the round of 16 of IEM gamescom!
check that game out.. the carriers were out earlier with gateway units
fun game!
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i forsee many robots trying this carrier build on ladder and not winning a single game. It looked like mc was toying with kas to me
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On August 18 2012 20:23 Msr wrote:
i forsee many robots trying this carrier build on ladder and not winning a single game. It looked like mc was toying with kas to me
Mind games can make you win and if you are able to fake something different and know that your opponent doesnt have many Starports out early (like Kas) then the Carrier should be quite viable. Kinda like the 1-Battlecruiser-repair rush in the first GSL on a shorter map.
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On August 18 2012 20:13 shell wrote:
MC demolished KAS in the last game in his best of 3 in the round of 16 of IEM gamescom!
check that game out.. the carriers were out earlier with gateway units
fun game!
Oh thank you! Ive got the replay but if anyone finds the youtube of it let me know (easier to convince someone with youtube videos)
Keep up the great work guys!
En Taro Carrier
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On August 18 2012 20:23 Msr wrote:
i forsee many robots trying this carrier build on ladder and not winning a single game. It looked like mc was toying with kas to me
Exactly what I said to my friend when I saw this build. Everyones gonna go on ladder, try it, and die hard.
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Just tweak the carrier and that's it. Players and fans will be happy. Tempest was a stupid idea anyways.
Part of me feels that Blizzard even after seeing and hearing support for the carrier, will still remove it and never even think of tweaking it.
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I'm considering that the real reason for carrier being cut in hots isn't because it's a bad unit, but because it's main purpose is to add a lot of damage to the protoss death ball late game which is already amazing. Blizzard has been saying death balls are something they want to move away from. Either way be thankful to the pros for showing how to get the most of the unit while they still can.
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United Kingdom12068 Posts
This is just my two cents as a Terran player, but I think I understand why they think removing the carrier is a good idea.
While the metagame is bio for TvP, Marines absolutely shred interceptors and they take money and time to build. If the marines just stim, every interceptor just dies and you've got a really expensive paperweight. The reason Carriers worked so well PvT in Broodwar is that Goliath's didn't have the rate of fire that Marines do with stim and interceptors seemed to be much harder to kill, which is why you'd always target the actual carrier.
The only thing that could change that from happening is if mech became the standard build for TvP, I'd personally prefer that as I mech already and I know for a fact that if you get caught off guard without enough turrets/vikings you just get steamrolled by carriers. I'd like them to save the Carrier, but they really depend on the map having lots of highground where you can't move marines to and also having dead space to hover your carriers over.
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On August 19 2012 03:22 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 20:23 Msr wrote:
i forsee many robots trying this carrier build on ladder and not winning a single game. It looked like mc was toying with kas to me Exactly what I said to my friend when I saw this build. Everyones gonna go on ladder, try it, and die hard.
I'm a high master protoss and I won a favored high master terran using this build. I got +20 points. :D
Totally viable build and owns terran hard.
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+1 to OP, protoss needs a buffed carrier to deal with infestor/broodlord or late late game terran. removing it will not help prtoss to deal what the currently have to deal with.
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A clan mate of mine [masters] pvz is entirely built around pure air. Removing carriers basically destroys his build.
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On August 19 2012 04:36 whatevername wrote:
A clan mate of mine [masters] pvz is entirely built around pure air. Removing carriers basically destroys his build.
It's not an issue of destroying builds, because people will still have the same mechanical strength, good decision making and game sense with any build. However the issue is that carrier is important to protoss both as:
-A strategical unit playing an important role in late game against the PvZ infestor broodlord compositions as well as some late late game scenarios of PvT, also an answer to the buffed mech in HotS as well as a quite useful unit for some unorthodox play in mid game.
-An important unit in the protoss lore, the protoss capital ship that no tempest can replace. It's been there since sc1 and it has one of the most unique designs in the game as it builds units (interceptors) to attack and can abuse this advantage for long range annoying micro.
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On August 19 2012 04:24 Adonminus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 03:22 Infernal_dream wrote:On August 18 2012 20:23 Msr wrote:
i forsee many robots trying this carrier build on ladder and not winning a single game. It looked like mc was toying with kas to me Exactly what I said to my friend when I saw this build. Everyones gonna go on ladder, try it, and die hard. I'm a high master protoss and I won a favored high master terran using this build. I got +20 points. :D Totally viable build and owns terran hard.
It's viable if not scouted. The thing is that so are void rays, DTs, and cannons.
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I don't know how many of y'all noticed MC' interview at the end where he asked Blizzard not to remove the Carrier...
Carriers are actually used more often than Battlecruisers now and as Blizzard isn't removing units from other races (the Thor and Overseer were tagged for deletion), it makes sense to leave the Carrier in the game...
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they try to make mech viable but yet they remove the carriers which was a pretty good counter to mech? I dont understand. If they keep the carrier, I am sure it would see a lot of usage in HOTS vs terran mech. In the battle report, if the protoss have had carriers instead of tempest, the game would of already been over.
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EPT
