Golden and Dragon leave SlayerS - Page 28

On January 17 2012 16:15 nvs. wrote:
You know where you are able to find out how much players make?

In sports. >.>

On January 17 2012 09:23 Derrida wrote:


Why? Would you care to elaborate why you think Starcraft II scene has different market dynamics compared to any other market functioning on supply/demand?

If player wages are inflated or deflated, making salaries public would introduce stability into the market. When players become free agents, a market in which assessing the value of the agent with reference to other players is possible is the best possible scenario.

On January 17 2012 16:15 nvs. wrote:
You know where you are able to find out how much players make?

In sports. >.>

On January 17 2012 16:31 Kennigit wrote:

Because its legally required by athletic commissions.

On January 16 2012 17:04 oxxo wrote:


That's the same for every salaried job. Benefits/taxes add a huge amount of cost to employees. Travel/accomodations/registration for SC2 players is nothing.

On January 17 2012 16:28 Vimsey wrote:

You cant generalise like that. Many top sports teams dont divulge salaries, for instance soccer teams that arent public limited companies. The newspapers tend to get the companies annual statements and roughly guess from the companies salary bills in those cases but its certainly not public knowledge.

Also in every workplace ive worked in if people knew for sure what everyone else was making including bonuses it would cause the opposite of stability. Some would demand equality, some would want to up and leave or be really unhappy. Thats is why Kennigit is right its not good for esports.

The main reason I'm posting though is that I dont understand Xeris' logic here. On one hand he says Koreans are demanding too much money and on the other he states of the only two cases he knows of they asked for less than the lowest tier on his list. Given the success of koreans in Europe and NA of even code B level players then this doesnt to me seem like an outrageous wage demand since you dont start out low in negotiations.

Maybe its more than most teams can afford but thats another matter and in that case maybe they should spend more time finding and nurturing local talent that wont need to be flown halfway around the world.

On January 17 2012 16:48 sebusca wrote:



so he cant generalize by using sports as an example but you can generalize by making baseless assumptions about your workplace and what MIGHT happen if people knew other peoples salaries.

Pretty sure 3k/month = 36K/year which is certainly not lower than 5-10K PER YEAR. Learn to fucking read.

On January 17 2012 10:19 ritoky wrote:


Let's do a thought experiment then, that has a significant basis in reality and the competitive game market (specifically WC3).

Suppose you work in let's say an insurance office. One day, without anyone's consent, the employer decides that he is going to post everyone's salaries up on a board for everyone to view. You go to view your salary and notice yourself in the lower half. Let's say there is a man named John who is quite a bit above you in pay grade but does the exact same job. You review the statistics and you sold twice as many insurance policies as he did for the past 3 months running; but he has been here 5 years longer. What do you do?

Some people will simply say to themselves, you know what that guy has seniority and those are probably cost of living and loyalty adjustments and if I go at this rate for the same amt of time I will probably make more than he does.

Others will find this a travesty and get pissed and demand more. If they don't get what they want they may seek other work, and now the company is screwed out of a better salesperson.

Now what is the point of this all in regards to transparency of information in regards to player salaries and business. Well transparency in its ideal form sounds amazing. We all get to know everything, so that we can examine it, adjust our business models, and more easily spot flaws/embezzling/etc. The problem isn't with your idealistic sense of wanting more transparency and information. It is actually with the players and the companies (teams). Ego is the problem. And even more specifically you need to consider the age and maturity level of your "employees". I hate to beat a dead horse, but MajOr has not exactly demonstrated professionalism in the past, yet there is no doubt that he is an extremely skilled player. Perhaps he finds out that a player he beats regularly in tournaments and on ladders makes double what he does. He could very well up his price tag based on his conception of self-worth and we could have a market that inflates very quickly. On the business end and in terms of diversity, that cause consolidation.

If a player market experienced massive inflation, then only larger teams with larger budgets would be able to afford players who drew eyeballs. Small teams would begin to die off, and we would have WC3.

Now all of this said, I am by no means against transparency in regards to this info. But you would have to find a clever way to minimize the effects of people and their conceptions on the system. If it was strictly business and data, then it would be much simpler.

On January 17 2012 16:51 Vimsey wrote:

Its not a baseless assumption since I have witnessed what has happened when employees have found out they were paid less than someone else. Its not rocket science.

To say all sports fully disclose however IS generalisation.

On January 17 2012 16:51 Vimsey wrote:

Its not a baseless assumption since I have witnessed what has happened when employees have found out they were paid less than someone else. Its not rocket science.

To say all sports fully disclose however IS generalisation.

And in response to your aggressive point, 1.5k is in the range and I repeat in a negotiation you start out asking for a higher amount than you will settle on. Asking for 3k is slightly above the lowest tier he quoted so again its hardly outrageous is it.

On January 17 2012 16:58 sebusca wrote:


PS I like how you dodge the part where you blatantly lied about him saying they are asking less than the lowest tier of pros.

On January 17 2012 16:57 sebusca wrote:


It is baseless. You have no idea what would actually happen at your work but you are pretending like you do. The fact is if you get paid less and work better you deserve to be compensated as such. Obviously you have never been particularly good at your job so it must not be much of a concern to you that you might be paid less for your substandard work. When you higher painters, do they all charge the same? No. Better painters charge more. And it isn't a secret what they are asking for or being paid. They big on each and every job. Players have to blindly negotiate a contract without any baseline statistics to go off of. That is an inherently flawed system.

On January 17 2012 16:31 Kennigit wrote:

Because its legally required by athletic commissions.

You also need to realize that is just pure salary, that doesn't include travel, accommodations, registration or anything else.

On January 17 2012 16:54 sebusca wrote:



This might blow your mind but IF YOU DO YOUR JOB BETTER YOU DESERVE BETTER COMPENSATION. No one is holding a gun to a company/team's head and forcing them to pay them what they are asking. The simple fact is that transparency gives the players a much more fair place to bargain from in contract negations. Simple as that. If you have won multiple big tournaments and see say HuK is making 50K at EG but you are getting paid 20K. You'd certainly fight for higher wages on your next contract wouldn't you? If you don't you are absolutely retarded. Hiding salary information only serves to empower greediness on the team and company's end.

On January 16 2012 17:11 Kennigit wrote:

Your statement implies that because you dont know, that the players dont know. They do know how much each other make. Do you think they dont talk to each other?