|
On January 16 2012 07:53 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game. That fact that Blizzard supports a game does not have any relation to them being entitled to a cut of profits that other people make from broadcasting people with already paid-for licenses playing it. MLG/GSL/whatever aren't selling Sc2. They're selling an event. They've already bought copies of Sc2. They shouldn't have to pay again.
how would the other people make profits without their game on their servers?
the point (that other people made better than me in this thread) is, licensing tournaments gives them money. money helps them support SC2. I honestly cannot think of another company that provides such impressive ongoing support for a game than Blizzard does, so if they're making money through a way that doesnt cost me ANYTHING AT ALL then i'm not going to complain.
|
On January 16 2012 07:57 akaname wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:54 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game. Let's be serious, without TeamLiquid or the pro BW scene in Korea SC2 wouldn't have happened. You should thank TeamLiquid mostly , not Blizzard. errr... what has that got to do with what i said? edit: ah i see, you're at teamliquid even though you hate SC2 nm i sort of get it.
Lol dude, TeamLiquid has BW section / other games section ..
And yes I enjoy watching GSL and Massive SC2 events . But It seems to me that Blizzard could gain a bit less and support the competitive scene more. Most likely I have rather high expectation from people who have to sole purpose of boosting their profits but still...Out of SC2 ... there won't be a game like DotA ... out of D3....it won't be a mod like MXL ... Whatever...
|
On January 16 2012 07:20 Shiori wrote:
This intellectual property digital stuff has really gotten out of hand,
Under the laws as they were fifty years ago, Blizzard would still have had copyright claims to the broadcasting of Starcraft 2. They created the artwork, they created the audio, and broadcasting of copyrighted works has been explicitly subject to copyright (worldwide!) since the 1920s. So no, it's not a matter of "US laws" or "intellectual property digital stuff."
Also, note that Blizzard set a reasonable threshold ($5k prize pool) for small tournaments to be absolutely no hassle to set up. TB's decided his tournament isn't quite profitable enough to be worth the extra hassle and cost to go higher, and that's perfectly reasonable too. However, no matter what Blizzard did to make things easier for smaller organizers, someone would be on the edge and tempted to limit what they're doing by a lower-cost option. The alternative would be that Blizzard charges all tournaments a fee simply to preserve their rights to charge a fee to the biggest ones.
I can't see why on balance it's not better to give small tournaments a break even if once in a while you get one limiting their prize pool to stay under the threshold.
|
On January 16 2012 07:53 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:39 Broodwurst wrote:On January 16 2012 06:35 integrity wrote:On January 16 2012 06:31 Talin wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players No matter how much of an opinion it is, you can't blindly accuse people of things like that. the statment came out a little acutory(sp?) but my point is ad revenue from 50k viewers is way more than 5k to pay players. Proof? Also, would you (theoretically speaking) be seriously complaing if they'd actually be earning money for their work? Really? Let me guess, the same wouldnt work for Blizzard, right? They dont need to get paid for their work, correct? Because the battle.net sustaines itself, the time and effort which go into balance-patches etc (which dont come from thin air, but people working on it - and want to get paid for it).. Screw it, how dare they? I actually think they should just sit aside and watch others make money with their game. That sounds really smart. Not saying btw that TB and others shouldnt make money for their efforts - what im saying is, calling Blizzard a "evil company" because they want a fair share off of what others are making with their game, is not only ridiculous, but pretty stupid.
No idea where you got that from, i'm absolutely fine with Blizzard demanding royalties. If someone makes money from their work they are up for a piece of that.
|
I know blizzard gets a good share of the ad revenue from tournaments with 5k + prize pool.But also you have to take in account that this tournament was entirely funded from ad revenue from TB's stream + donations.
|
On January 16 2012 07:53 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game. That fact that Blizzard supports a game does not have any relation to them being entitled to a cut of profits that other people make from broadcasting people with already paid-for licenses playing it. MLG/GSL/whatever aren't selling Sc2. They're selling an event. They've already bought copies of Sc2. They shouldn't have to pay again.
Sounds reasonable. Tell me, where are you from? Just so i can model the next argument around something you really know. Like Superbowl for example. Or Bundesliga. Stuff like that, where you can buy a ticket for.
Buy a ticket for the superbowl and then try to stream it your TV-Channel. Or even better, you paid for the cinema-ticket, try to stream the film over the internet.
Doesnt work that way? Pretty much it does, because you actually just have bought a permission to install the game basically.
Blizzard clearly states in the EULA that you can use the license/game for noncommercial use only. Everyone agreed to that. If you make money from the game, well.. How noncommercial is that? And how can someone complain about the fact that Blizzard want to enforce its "rules" (or at least, get its share off of the tournament-orgas)?
|
On January 16 2012 08:02 bOneSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:57 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:54 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game. Let's be serious, without TeamLiquid or the pro BW scene in Korea SC2 wouldn't have happened. You should thank TeamLiquid mostly , not Blizzard. errr... what has that got to do with what i said? edit: ah i see, you're at teamliquid even though you hate SC2 nm i sort of get it. Lol dude, TeamLiquid has BW section / other games section .. And yes I enjoy watching GSL and Massive SC2 events . But It seems to me that Blizzard could gain a bit less and support the competitive scene more. Most likely I have rather high expectation from people who have to sole purpose of boosting their profits but still...Out of SC2 ... there won't be a game like DotA ... out of D3....it won't be a mod like MXL ... Whatever...
err yeah but you're (a) posting in the SC2 section and (b) watching a SC2 tournament.
i just cannot understand how people who like a game dislike the creators so much. and if you feel that Blizzard only works for profits, you're clearly playing and watching a different version of SC2 to me.
Personally, i'm incredibly glad they have a sustainable business model (including their often maligned 'trilogy') that will allow them to continue to support SC2 for at least 5 more years. the more money we can continue to feed them, the better.
edit: sorry i was so harsh in my first post by the way, i just get surprised by people who are still enjoying a game almost 2 years after its release who still seem to look down on it.
|
On January 16 2012 07:36 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Hey guys, what would you prefer, having to pay for patches, them releasing a new SC2 each year with major patches and selling it for $60, having to pay $15 or so a month to play, or have a % of the profits of tournaments be paid to Blizzard? The latter makes the most sense to me, since the work Blizzard spends outside of developing the game (balancing, fixing bugs, etc. etc.) contributes to the esports side of things by making it a competitive game, so by having part of the profits of tournaments go to Blizzard, it's as if we're paying for their extra efforts instead of just giving up on SC2 after patching for only a couple months.
?? How do you explain every other game that has ever gotten free patches after release without a tournament scene to tax. For example relic rts games get a bunch explain why dawn of war 2 got a balance patch last month. There is no reason we have to chose any of the options you listed.
What if blizzard just made money from the extremely long term sales of their game (broodwar sold a lot for a decade) and the map marketplace they will soon add instead of making it more likely that all the unstable tournaments that advertise their game and keep fans interested in sc2 instead of other games go out of buisness.
|
On January 16 2012 07:17 bOneSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:03 Broodwurst wrote:On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
But shouldn't pro-gamers also "love the game"? So if programmers can patch for free they could play for less. Ok I'm to dumb to understand what you just said o_O pls restate :D
You're basically suggesting that Blizzard shouldn't demand royalties as "programmers who love the game would patch the game for free." By that logic there wouldn't be a need for prize money because gamers love the game, too.
|
For all the people hating on blizzard:
Blizzard created the game, created all the art assets and the gameplay that enables pro gamers to compete on such a high level. People who are streaming their game without paying are actually against copyright law, and the fact that they don't go after internet streamers and televised events with prizes under 5K is already a sign of goodwill from blizzard. Remember they spent 5+ years creating this game, and it's their right to use it as they see fit.
Remember that when people pay for the game, they're paying for their personal use, and not streaming and broadcasting licenses, those are different licenses. Also, people are raging without even knowing the licensing agreement from blizzard (and no one even knows, because it's under a NDA), but we can all agree that if it wasn't profitable for tournaments, those tournaments would probably just wouldn't happen and e-sports organizers would turn to other games, such as street fighter, DoTA, Halo or countless others.
This is not the first time i see team liquid's community asking for more attention from Blizzard, and we got to remember that SC2 wasn't made for e-sports, we are just the vocal minority. So stop bashing on Blizzard for creating a game that was awesome enough to create a whole tournament scene without even knowing what they are asking from them.
|
On January 16 2012 08:11 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:17 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 07:03 Broodwurst wrote:On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
But shouldn't pro-gamers also "love the game"? So if programmers can patch for free they could play for less. Ok I'm to dumb to understand what you just said o_O pls restate :D You're basically suggesting that Blizzard shouldn't demand royalties as "programmers who love the game would patch the game for free." By that logic there wouldn't be a need for prize money because gamers love the game, too.
Somehow i got your first posting wrong, sorry for that. Hirnfurz somehow.
|
On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:Say if Stephano won this tournament and got 3k$ and TB gets 10k$ , how would that be fair
TB's not in this for love and kisses. He's in this to make a living. If he wants to further esports, it's because he wants to be able to keep making a living from what he's doing. So if he runs a tournament and makes money from it I'm completely okay with that.
But I think he's been fairly transparent about costs and such in previous times, and he pretty much breaks even. I think.
|
|
|
Wow. Same thread. Similar arguments as well.
|
On January 16 2012 08:21 JOJOsc2news wrote:Wow. Same thread. Similar arguments as well.
wow never seen this text in a thread before 
Warning: The last post in this thread is over two months old.
If you bump this, you better have a good reason.
|
I always thought this was incredibly retarded.
This would be equal to if the guy who invented the guitar demanded 50 % of ticket sales it's completely ridiculous.
Stop holding your own game back :/
|
Not that big a deal. Blizzard doesn't want a repeat of KeSPA, after all.
Really, 10-15% is nothing.
|
On January 16 2012 08:28 Cereb wrote:
I always thought this was incredibly retarded.
This would be equal to if the guy who invented the guitar demanded 50 % of ticket sales it's completely ridiculous.
Stop holding your own game back :/
I don't see the guy who invented the computer demanding any money.
I also don't see how this i holding anything back, SC2 seems to be doing pretty fine.
|
On January 16 2012 08:11 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:17 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 07:03 Broodwurst wrote:On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
But shouldn't pro-gamers also "love the game"? So if programmers can patch for free they could play for less. Ok I'm to dumb to understand what you just said o_O pls restate :D You're basically suggesting that Blizzard shouldn't demand royalties as "programmers who love the game would patch the game for free." By that logic there wouldn't be a need for prize money because gamers love the game, too.
No because if people couldn't play the game pro - to make a living they wouldn't put such an amazing show => no reason to spectate the show=> no reason sponsors would sponsor an event. So pro players actually create the possibility of making money . The pro player are usefull to the community . Blizzard guys are not usefull, because patching can be done for free by fans. The only real thing Blizzard provides are the servers. And I'd be rather curious how much that costs them.
|
On January 16 2012 08:25 akaname wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 08:21 JOJOsc2news wrote:Wow. Same thread. Similar arguments as well. wow never seen this text in a thread before Show nested quote +Warning: The last post in this thread is over two months old.
If you bump this, you better have a good reason.
yeah, if you have a good enough reason to make a new thread, you should be able to bump an old thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
