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On January 16 2012 06:37 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players This is quite an accusation to make without any evidence. Other events can be organized with that money. Just because it's limited to 5k because of the Blizzard deal doesn't mean you can make more events as TB said himself.
Plus, why does it matter if he makes a buck for himself on the tournament? If the players agreed to play for a 5k prize pool and he held his end of the deal, there really isn't any problem here. If you don't like the idea of him profiting, don't watch. It's pretty simple.
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On January 16 2012 06:30 radiantshadow92 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:26 Ragoo wrote:On January 16 2012 06:24 Zeroxk wrote:On January 16 2012 06:20 Ragoo wrote:On January 16 2012 05:46 Xeris wrote:
If you want bigger tournaments, you need a special tournament license from Blizzard, which costs money, and they take % of all the money u make While other organizations actually push esport and make million dollar tournaments (hi@valve), Blizzard restricts esports with silly stuff like this or no LAN (no save, no reconnect)... great. Hah you think the million dollar dota tourney was "pushing esport" and not an expensive ad? What do you think of Riot and their constant money injection There will be more of these from Valve... edit: And it was an ad for esport if anything. On January 16 2012 06:00 radiantshadow92 wrote:
blizzard runs all the bnet servers and continues to patch the game and release new maps. Tournaments are the only continuing source of income for them since the game is only sold once. Whether they make a shit ton of money or not is no reason to loath them. Its a much better way for them to have a strong relationship with tournament organizers and continue to make money without subscriptions from players. Imo, it would also be unfair for tourney organizer to make money off their servers and hard work for no fee. They make millions and millions of dollars , the money in esport is VERY small compared to the profit Blizzard makes. How is it even remotely cool if they charge esport tournaments like this and slow down esport's growth. Also new maps isn't rly an achievement, it's more of an annoyance since the community is way better at making maps... do you know how much is injected into esports? do you even know how much money blizzard makes off sc2 and tourney revenue? i doubt you do. unless you have proof, this post means absolutely nothing.
Yeah you're right. I should check some numbers before I write something stupid like this. Probably the esport money comes pretty close to the 4,4 billion revenue and 400+ income Blizzard had in 2010 for example.
They are probably totally dependent on this tournament money!
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On January 16 2012 06:34 iky43210 wrote:
"they're just making money" is getting old. I'm sure we all know that, but don't expect us to sympathize with their greed and thinks its not ok to criticize their practice
Also capitalism is not ideal, whatever gave you that idea?
how about this instead: "if they dont make enough money off of it to justify it, there will never be any more expansions for starcraft, and it will die as other more intelligent companies (who make money off their projects) develop newer games."
also, for all of those who think blizzard making money off the game is somehow wrong, wouldnt it be better for blizzard to just keep developing (and spending their resources) on WoW? they make a shitton more money off that game. they could just leave starcraft to stagnate as it hasn't made them nearly as much money.
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On January 16 2012 06:35 integrity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:31 Talin wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players No matter how much of an opinion it is, you can't blindly accuse people of things like that. the statment came out a little acutory(sp?) but my point is ad revenue from 50k viewers is way more than 5k to pay players.
Proof?
Also, would you (theoretically speaking) be seriously complaing if they'd actually be earning money for their work? Really?
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On January 16 2012 06:38 Ragoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:30 radiantshadow92 wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 Ragoo wrote:On January 16 2012 06:24 Zeroxk wrote:On January 16 2012 06:20 Ragoo wrote:On January 16 2012 05:46 Xeris wrote:
If you want bigger tournaments, you need a special tournament license from Blizzard, which costs money, and they take % of all the money u make While other organizations actually push esport and make million dollar tournaments (hi@valve), Blizzard restricts esports with silly stuff like this or no LAN (no save, no reconnect)... great. Hah you think the million dollar dota tourney was "pushing esport" and not an expensive ad? What do you think of Riot and their constant money injection There will be more of these from Valve... edit: And it was an ad for esport if anything. On January 16 2012 06:00 radiantshadow92 wrote:
blizzard runs all the bnet servers and continues to patch the game and release new maps. Tournaments are the only continuing source of income for them since the game is only sold once. Whether they make a shit ton of money or not is no reason to loath them. Its a much better way for them to have a strong relationship with tournament organizers and continue to make money without subscriptions from players. Imo, it would also be unfair for tourney organizer to make money off their servers and hard work for no fee. They make millions and millions of dollars , the money in esport is VERY small compared to the profit Blizzard makes. How is it even remotely cool if they charge esport tournaments like this and slow down esport's growth. Also new maps isn't rly an achievement, it's more of an annoyance since the community is way better at making maps... do you know how much is injected into esports? do you even know how much money blizzard makes off sc2 and tourney revenue? i doubt you do. unless you have proof, this post means absolutely nothing. Yeah you're right. I should check some numbers before I write something stupid like this. Probably the esport money comes pretty close to the 4,4 billion revenue and 400+ income Blizzard had in 2010 for example. They are probably totally dependent on this tournament money!
Profit is profit. Just because it isn't as much money doesn't mean they should ignore if. Blizzard answers to shareholders who expect them to try their hardest to maximize profits. This is a pretty simple concept that every company follows.
If Blizzard thinks leaving tournaments alone will cause them to grow, thus earning Blizzard more money in future sales, they will do just that. However, it seems that they don't think this and we can't really judge because we're operating on incomplete information. The fact is Blizzard exists to make money and they're doing what they do to fulfill that goal.
This isn't a charity.
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I thought it wasn't a fixed percentage, but scales depending on the amount your prize pool would have? Otherwise, lower money prize pools would totally get fucked over.
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Somebody on Reddit explained it a couple of days ago. I'll try to summarize it:
Blizzard wants to have control over their game which is totally understandable. They created this game, they support it, I think it's just normal that they want to have a small part of the money of a big price pool.
Partially the LAN modus has something to do with this as well. Everybody is screaming for a LAN modus but trust me, this wouldn't really benefit the game as you might think. I do agree they should release something like a tournament client for the big Offline tournaments.
Blizzard made the mistake with SCBW once and gave the power over their game and the industry out of their hands to KeSPA. As the developer of the game Blizzard wanted to have a part of the money KeSPA got out of their new industry around SCBW. KeSPA said now, they advised Blizzard that they are "only" the developer and didn't build the industry. It came to this big clash, now KeSPA pays fees to Blizzard.
For me this totally makes sense.
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On January 16 2012 06:39 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:35 integrity wrote:On January 16 2012 06:31 Talin wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players No matter how much of an opinion it is, you can't blindly accuse people of things like that. the statment came out a little acutory(sp?) but my point is ad revenue from 50k viewers is way more than 5k to pay players. Proof? Also, would you (theoretically speaking) be seriously complaing if they'd actually be earning money for they work? Really?
Exactly. It is outrageous that someone would make money with their job. Ridiculous. Shame on you. /sarcasm
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On January 16 2012 06:44 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:39 Broodwurst wrote:On January 16 2012 06:35 integrity wrote:On January 16 2012 06:31 Talin wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players No matter how much of an opinion it is, you can't blindly accuse people of things like that. the statment came out a little acutory(sp?) but my point is ad revenue from 50k viewers is way more than 5k to pay players. Proof? Also, would you (theoretically speaking) be seriously complaing if they'd actually be earning money for they work? Really? Exactly. It is outrageous that someone would make money with their job. Ridiculous. Shame on you. /sarcasm
Plus the very act of making money is what encourages him and others to put on future tournaments, which is good for everyone involved.
If TB makes money, the players make money, Twitch makes money, and the viewers get entertainment, what's the problem here? Is this guy against the idea of movie studios making money too?
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Companies that want to make money are killing esports!!
Thank goodness Razer, ASUS, intel, XMG, twitch.tv etc etc etc are giving money to esports hoping for nothing in return! We should support them with our ♥ (but not $) and continue to H8 blizzard (but keep buying SC2 accounts, expansions and watch every possible tournament!).
Haven't we already seen this thread?
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I don't find this all that surprising. Blizzard is a business in the business of making money.
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On January 16 2012 06:39 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:34 iky43210 wrote:
"they're just making money" is getting old. I'm sure we all know that, but don't expect us to sympathize with their greed and thinks its not ok to criticize their practice
Also capitalism is not ideal, whatever gave you that idea? how about this instead: "if they dont make enough money off of it to justify it, there will never be any more expansions for starcraft, and it will die as other more intelligent companies (who make money off their projects) develop newer games." also, for all of those who think blizzard making money off the game is somehow wrong, wouldnt it be better for blizzard to just keep developing (and spending their resources) on WoW? they make a shitton more money off that game. they could just leave starcraft to stagnate as it hasn't made them nearly as much money.
quite a slippery slope there.
Nobody said it was wrong for Blizzard to make money, but I believe it is wrong for the way Blizzard is trying to make money.
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On January 16 2012 06:00 bOneSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 05:56 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 05:53 bOneSeven wrote:
What they have done in SC2 to make the esports scene better ? Made BW and SC2. There's that They made that for money. They got their money, now what have they done after that ? You wanna tell me they made SC2 to help the esports scene ? No, they would help the esports scene if they would remove this unreasonable restriction , lower the price to the game ( expansion set appears in less than 6 months so it's perfectly reasonable ) to maybe 10-15$ so it gets more players-> more spectators for the game . and spend some resources to try and balance the game to make it more competitively. "There's that"
Blizzcon? Balance patches? "What have they done for e-sports?" are you kidding? This restriction isn't even that ridiculous. Making 10% of a tournaments PROFIT is completely reasonable. Do you have any idea what people charge for things that are copy righted?
Blizzard looks the other way on all sorts of streamers who make tons of money with their game, even though they could push copyright issues involving streaming. The fact that they want to make SOME money off of a game they made sounds more then reasonable to me. What is even with this post
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On January 16 2012 06:48 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 16 2012 06:34 iky43210 wrote:
"they're just making money" is getting old. I'm sure we all know that, but don't expect us to sympathize with their greed and thinks its not ok to criticize their practice
Also capitalism is not ideal, whatever gave you that idea? how about this instead: "if they dont make enough money off of it to justify it, there will never be any more expansions for starcraft, and it will die as other more intelligent companies (who make money off their projects) develop newer games." also, for all of those who think blizzard making money off the game is somehow wrong, wouldnt it be better for blizzard to just keep developing (and spending their resources) on WoW? they make a shitton more money off that game. they could just leave starcraft to stagnate as it hasn't made them nearly as much money. quite a slippery slope there. Nobody said it was wrong for Blizzard to make money, but I believe it is wrong for the way Blizzard is trying to make money.
whats slippery about it? i doubt blizzard waited all this time to develop sc2 because of something other than money. if they had felt that starcraft was a gold mine they would have developed it earlier. rather, they were making a ton of money off of WoW and didn't need starcraft.
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On January 16 2012 06:48 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 16 2012 06:34 iky43210 wrote:
"they're just making money" is getting old. I'm sure we all know that, but don't expect us to sympathize with their greed and thinks its not ok to criticize their practice
Also capitalism is not ideal, whatever gave you that idea? how about this instead: "if they dont make enough money off of it to justify it, there will never be any more expansions for starcraft, and it will die as other more intelligent companies (who make money off their projects) develop newer games." also, for all of those who think blizzard making money off the game is somehow wrong, wouldnt it be better for blizzard to just keep developing (and spending their resources) on WoW? they make a shitton more money off that game. they could just leave starcraft to stagnate as it hasn't made them nearly as much money. quite a slippery slope there. Nobody said it was wrong for Blizzard to make money, but I believe it is wrong for the way Blizzard is trying to make money.
Ok, but the fact that it works means they will continue to do so. Now if people start making a fuss about it to the point that it hurts Blizzard's image and they feel like it's beginning to hurt their profits, they will stop. Otherwise, they'll keep doing it.
A similar example is Facebook's privacy issue -- they would love to take everyone's personal information and sell it to advertisers, because it would earn them huge profits. However, doing so will cause a significant backlash that would hurt their bottom line. That's the only thing keeping them from doing it.
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On January 16 2012 06:50 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:00 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 05:56 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 05:53 bOneSeven wrote:
What they have done in SC2 to make the esports scene better ? Made BW and SC2. There's that They made that for money. They got their money, now what have they done after that ? You wanna tell me they made SC2 to help the esports scene ? No, they would help the esports scene if they would remove this unreasonable restriction , lower the price to the game ( expansion set appears in less than 6 months so it's perfectly reasonable ) to maybe 10-15$ so it gets more players-> more spectators for the game . and spend some resources to try and balance the game to make it more competitively. "There's that" Blizzcon? Balance patches? "What have they done for e-sports?" are you kidding? This restriction isn't even that ridiculous. Making 10% of a tournaments PROFIT is completely reasonable. Do you have any idea what people charge for things that are copy righted? Blizzard looks the other way on all sorts of streamers who make tons of money with their game, even though they could push copyright issues involving streaming. The fact that they want to make SOME money off of a game they made sounds more then reasonable to me. What is even with this post
I couldn't agree more.
Blizzard is not some magical all good company but the way they handle their SC2 franchise and the community around it is quite unique I think. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical, which we constantly are. That is good.
Arguments like "They should use the money from the initial sale to actually balance the sale" however aren't critical - they are narrow-minded, accusatory and quite frankly ridiculous.
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On January 16 2012 06:50 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:00 bOneSeven wrote:On January 16 2012 05:56 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 05:53 bOneSeven wrote:
What they have done in SC2 to make the esports scene better ? Made BW and SC2. There's that They made that for money. They got their money, now what have they done after that ? You wanna tell me they made SC2 to help the esports scene ? No, they would help the esports scene if they would remove this unreasonable restriction , lower the price to the game ( expansion set appears in less than 6 months so it's perfectly reasonable ) to maybe 10-15$ so it gets more players-> more spectators for the game . and spend some resources to try and balance the game to make it more competitively. "There's that" Blizzcon? Balance patches? "What have they done for e-sports?" are you kidding? This restriction isn't even that ridiculous. Making 10% of a tournaments PROFIT is completely reasonable. Do you have any idea what people charge for things that are copy righted? Blizzard looks the other way on all sorts of streamers who make tons of money with their game, even though they could push copyright issues involving streaming. The fact that they want to make SOME money off of a game they made sounds more then reasonable to me. What is even with this post
To be fair, it's very possible they do take a share of the money streamers make through SC2. Of course if they do, it's through the streaming services rather than through the streamers, but it would be completely reasonable for them to do so.
For example if I was Blizzard, I'd tell Twitch to give me 10% of the money they make off SC2 streaming, at which point they could split the remainder between themselves and the streamer.
But even if they did this, it would be 100% justified and fine. I'd actually hope they did something like this to be honest, because it would mean SC2 is worth more to Blizzard and would mean they can invest more resources into the game.
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I was raging over a massive 50% fee , for a 10% fee I'm totally ok . The idea was simple .
There must be a reasonable ratio between how much the pro players earn and how much blizzard/casters/organizers earn.
Say if Stephano won this tournament and got 3k$ and TB gets 10k$ , how would that be fair ( I have no idea how much he got I'm just throwing out a random number ). Now , it would be rather interesting if some1 came with some real facts from real sources about proffits.
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
I'm just stating these facts because, everyone who knows how hard is to be an actual pro BW/SC2 player would share my thoughts on this..
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On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
Say if Stephano won this tournament and got 3k$ and TB gets 10k$ , how would that be fair ( I have no idea how much he got I'm just throwing out a random number ). Now , it would be rather interesting if some1 came with some real facts from real sources about proffits.
It would be fair because Stephano would have agreed to play in a tournament for $3k. If Stephano agreed to play for 5k and only received $3k, that would be unfair (and illegal). However, if he agreed to $3k and received it, any other money made is not a concern of his.
If I agree to work for a software developer for $80k/yr and they make $50m in profits, I can't reasonably expect them to give me that money (or even part of it). If they choose to share some of it, it's called a bonus because it's completely bonus and unrequired. What's fair is the fact that they pay me the promised 80k though.
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I feel like this topic has been beaten to death. Blizzard is a company, and deserves to make money. Money made on tournaments allows for future support for sc via patches, improved interface, balance, etc. Also, why do people hear about making money and immediately think its distasteful. Businesses work on money. Would you rather income for sc support comes from a subscription fee to bnet?
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EPT
