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On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players
Wow, quite an ironic username you have there. Do a bit of research before you accuse people of being deceitful. TB has been quite upfront about how much money the previous tournaments have received from ad revenue take a look at the post mortems he wrote for the previous SCIs. He has also stated if there is money left over he will do some showmatches. Ideally he would love to continue to grow the prize pool but it makes no sense to do so with Blizzards restrictions.
Regardless of this he makes a lot of money from his main youtube channel (400k video views a day). I don't think he needs to steal from his own tournament somehow.
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On January 16 2012 06:55 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:48 iky43210 wrote:On January 16 2012 06:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 16 2012 06:34 iky43210 wrote:
"they're just making money" is getting old. I'm sure we all know that, but don't expect us to sympathize with their greed and thinks its not ok to criticize their practice
Also capitalism is not ideal, whatever gave you that idea? how about this instead: "if they dont make enough money off of it to justify it, there will never be any more expansions for starcraft, and it will die as other more intelligent companies (who make money off their projects) develop newer games." also, for all of those who think blizzard making money off the game is somehow wrong, wouldnt it be better for blizzard to just keep developing (and spending their resources) on WoW? they make a shitton more money off that game. they could just leave starcraft to stagnate as it hasn't made them nearly as much money. quite a slippery slope there. Nobody said it was wrong for Blizzard to make money, but I believe it is wrong for the way Blizzard is trying to make money. Ok, but the fact that it works means they will continue to do so. Now if people start making a fuss about it to the point that it hurts Blizzard's image and they feel like it's beginning to hurt their profits, they will stop. Otherwise, they'll keep doing it. A similar example is Facebook's privacy issue -- they would love to take everyone's personal information and sell it to advertisers, because it would earn them huge profits. However, doing so will cause a significant backlash that would hurt their bottom line. That's the only thing keeping them from doing it.
I think we're getting somewhere.
Then again I personally don't have any feelings for this subject right now cause there is no source about how much is being paid.
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On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
But shouldn't pro-gamers also "love the game"? So if programmers can patch for free they could play for less.
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On January 16 2012 07:03 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
And my philosophy is rather simple . Restrict the pro scene as a game developper = you are a vicious company. I'm sure if they wouldn't patch the game, some programmers who love the game would patch the game for free so the community gets stronger ( if they had the permission from Blizzard ) .
But shouldn't pro-gamers also "love the game"? So if programmers can patch for free they could play for less.
Ok I'm to dumb to understand what you just said o_O pls restate :D
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I wasn't aware that the end of something being money exculpates it from any moral judgment. Blizzard's method of profiting from Sc2 tournaments is damaging to the eSports scene. I don't care if it's expected that they would do such a thing. I don't even care if every business started doing it. The point is that it's disgusting and limits humanity for the sake of short-term gain. It shouldn't actually be legal for Blizzard to sell an Sc2 license rather than, you know, the actual game, but because of moronic US copyright laws, it is. This intellectual property digital stuff has really gotten out of hand, and to see people defending it by appealing to shareholders is flat-out hilarious. Yes, we get it: people want to make money. Does that mean someone should be able to stab you and take your wallet? No, because that's immoral and infringes on all kinds of rights. The question is: does Blizzard really have any right to be in the pockets of tournament holders? The answer is a resounding "No" in every arena except the legal one.
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What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee?
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On January 16 2012 06:24 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:20 Ragoo wrote:On January 16 2012 05:46 Xeris wrote:
If you want bigger tournaments, you need a special tournament license from Blizzard, which costs money, and they take % of all the money u make While other organizations actually push esport and make million dollar tournaments (hi@valve), Blizzard restricts esports with silly stuff like this or no LAN (no save, no reconnect)... great. And yet Starcraft has proved itself to be the only long term self-sustaining E-Sport. While other companies are pooling millions into their games, Starcraft II is competing with Blizzard dropping a cent. Blizzard's model is much superior in that aspect because it does not require a massive marketing budget. Make no mistake the 1.6 million tournament was an advertisement, nothing more. And don't say "hi valve" when they have done like one thing in the last forever to support E-Sports. Valve has turned a blind eye to E-Sports for a long long long long long time.
Blizzard turned a blind eye for just as long what did they do for broodwar or dota besides starting once a year blizzcon tournaments in 2005? Also starcraft 2 has not yet proved itself to be a long term self sustaining E-sport and broodwar is dieing in Korea. Are you guys sure this is a good business model?
Blizzard doesn't charge them outside of some relatively small license fee. The problem is that these leagues don't make money. No esport league makes money. MLG is MAYBE the only league to make money in 2011, and I'm even dubious about that... but luckily they had $10 million in VC money to play with on the year, and I'm sure they have more long term plans so it doesn't matter if they don't make money this year...
GOMTV doesn't seem to have that kind of backing, which means that their league is not being very successful (financially)... hence cutting about 1/2 million from their expenses. Seems like overall, Korea is having a very rough time leveraging SC2's popularity and their players' skill with sponsors the way Western companies / organizations / players are able to do.
said by xeris about GOM
No esport league is making money! How long will they last if they don't make money? And then blizzard won't get any fees or advertisement from tournaments at all.
Maybe that inferior business model where game companies don't tax unprofitable companies that want to advertise their game with massive attention getting events will last longer.
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee?
So you agree that every caster, player, team, stream and sc2 website including teamliquid should pay blizzard a percent of their revenue right? Day9 and tastosis are definitely making money right now for what reason should blizzard not charge them a large fee?
But what tournaments are you talking about that are profiting off of sc2? Kespa? If you trust what milkies says then nope!
also to anyone who says "BW is on life support" -- esports as a whole is on life support. Why do you think blizzard dropped the stance on trying to extort money from the scene in korea? They finally discovered that no one in korean esports (except maybe OGN/MBC Game but that's arguable) makes any sort of money and that kespa literally lives off sponsors.
source
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Its makes sense for Blizzard to this. Its somewhat arbitrary of a cut, but I suppose Blizzard figures $5,000 and under classifies the tournament as a small stage, possibly a semi-local affair. They wouldn't want to stifle that or deal with any administrative costs that goes along with what relatively amounts to pennies.
Over $5,000 would be a large tournament, and one that probably can afford things like noticeable advertising and revenue generation. This organization would then in some facet be making money off of Blizzards investments into their own game on a scale that warrants any administrative costs needed to obtain Blizzards share. Also, Blizzards is putting in quite a bit of money into the upkeep and development of their game and if another business is milking profits from their game without any kind of nod to the company that made it possible, it would be seen as bleeding potential profit for Blizzard.
Blizzard isn't talking about the difference between a $4999 and $5000 prize pool either, the divide is gunning for the $200 weekly tournaments versus the $50,000 mega tournaments.
Also, as has been said before, its a percentage, not all or even half. There is also probably some negotiation room for say running Blizzard ads or hosting other promotional blizzard content instead of giving money outright.
It doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
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$5000 is pretty good for a couple of days work.
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Blizzard's method of profiting from Sc2 tournaments is damaging to the eSports scene.
Why and how is it damaging the eSports scene?
I don't care if it's expected that they would do such a thing. I don't even care if every business started doing it. The point is that it's disgusting and limits humanity for the sake of short-term gain
Somehow I don't see Blizzard taking 10% of the profit made from tournaments with a >$5K prize pool limiting humanity....
It shouldn't actually be legal for Blizzard to sell an Sc2 license rather than, you know, the actual game, but because of moronic US copyright laws, it is. This intellectual property digital stuff has really gotten out of hand, and to see people defending it by appealing to shareholders is flat-out hilarious. Yes, we get it: people want to make money. Does that mean someone should be able to stab you and take your wallet? No, because that's immoral and infringes on all kinds of rights.
...I don't even know where to begin trying to respond to this.
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On January 16 2012 07:33 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +Blizzard's method of profiting from Sc2 tournaments is damaging to the eSports scene. Forces tournaments to allocate more funds to paying Blizzard and away from the community for no really justifiable reason. Show nested quote +I don't care if it's expected that they would do such a thing. I don't even care if every business started doing it. The point is that it's disgusting and limits humanity for the sake of short-term gain Show nested quote +Somehow I don't see Blizzard taking 10% of the profit made from tournaments with a >$5K prize pool limiting humanity.... Is it a crisis like outright extortion? No, but it's essentially contempt for the consumer. It's by definition a limit on the growth of the scene since it's an overhead fee which must always be paid. Show nested quote +It shouldn't actually be legal for Blizzard to sell an Sc2 license rather than, you know, the actual game, but because of moronic US copyright laws, it is. This intellectual property digital stuff has really gotten out of hand, and to see people defending it by appealing to shareholders is flat-out hilarious. Yes, we get it: people want to make money. Does that mean someone should be able to stab you and take your wallet? No, because that's immoral and infringes on all kinds of rights. ...I don't even know where to begin trying to respond to this.
Perhaps you should google hyperbole before you attempt to.
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Hey guys, what would you prefer, having to pay for patches, them releasing a new SC2 each year with major patches and selling it for $60, having to pay $15 or so a month to play, or have a % of the profits of tournaments be paid to Blizzard? The latter makes the most sense to me, since the work Blizzard spends outside of developing the game (balancing, fixing bugs, etc. etc.) contributes to the esports side of things by making it a competitive game, so by having part of the profits of tournaments go to Blizzard, it's as if we're paying for their extra efforts instead of just giving up on SC2 after patching for only a couple months.
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On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
I was raging over a massive 50% fee , for a 10% fee I'm totally ok . The idea was simple .
There must be a reasonable ratio between how much the pro players earn and how much blizzard/casters/organizers earn.
You're getting awfully worked up over a figure some random guy in a chat room gives you. Life on internet must be exhausting if you believes everything people say without critical thinking.
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On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee?
thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game.
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On January 16 2012 06:39 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:35 integrity wrote:On January 16 2012 06:31 Talin wrote:On January 16 2012 06:26 integrity wrote:
the following statement is my opinion, no it might not be like your and no im not asking you to agree with me:
at this point with over 50k viewers TB can take a lost to his OWN ad revenue to raise the prize pool. after a certain point in ads he is already making way more than the 5k needed for the next tournament. it just my opinion that he doesnt want to raise it because he rather take the huge amount of ad revenue he is getting from 50k people himself...which is way more than the 5k he is giving to players No matter how much of an opinion it is, you can't blindly accuse people of things like that. the statment came out a little acutory(sp?) but my point is ad revenue from 50k viewers is way more than 5k to pay players. Proof? Also, would you (theoretically speaking) be seriously complaing if they'd actually be earning money for their work? Really?
Let me guess, the same wouldnt work for Blizzard, right? They dont need to get paid for their work, correct? Because the battle.net sustaines itself, the time and effort which go into balance-patches etc (which dont come from thin air, but people working on it - and want to get paid for it).. Screw it, how dare they?
I actually think they should just sit aside and watch others make money with their game. That sounds really smart.
Not saying btw that TB and others shouldnt make money for their efforts - what im saying is, calling Blizzard a "evil company" because they want a fair share off of what others are making with their game, is not only ridiculous, but pretty stupid.
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On January 16 2012 07:39 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 06:58 bOneSeven wrote:
I was raging over a massive 50% fee , for a 10% fee I'm totally ok . The idea was simple .
There must be a reasonable ratio between how much the pro players earn and how much blizzard/casters/organizers earn.
You're getting awfully worked up over a figure some random guy in a chat room gives you. Life on internet must be exhausting if you believes everything people say without critical thinking.
Yes I do believe until I've been shown the contrary. I'm rather cool right now but right then I was totally raging , like wtf blizzard!?!?!?
Still the arguments remain the same . Why guys even say pay for patch ? That is completely retarded. As I said , programmers who love the game will provide the patches with fixes and balanced for free ( this happened in DotA/ Diablo2MedianXL ). Paying a monthly fee is a vicious model of business . I'm betting they made like a tremendous amount of money compared to how much they invested in it. I'm for sure that how much the actual people who WORKED to make the game are getting like a insignificant portion of what the company owner makes from it, who made nothing but just "invstested" in it. And now the same people who did ZERO work to make the game want more money from the game... come on son.
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On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game.
That fact that Blizzard supports a game does not have any relation to them being entitled to a cut of profits that other people make from broadcasting people with already paid-for licenses playing it. MLG/GSL/whatever aren't selling Sc2. They're selling an event. They've already bought copies of Sc2. They shouldn't have to pay again.
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lol this shit is so stupid. everyone hating on blizzard. if you hate them so much go play some other RTS, oh fucking wait, there are none. At their very worst, blizzard is a god-company for making everything this site is about.
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On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game.
Let's be serious, without TeamLiquid or the pro BW scene in Korea SC2 wouldn't have happened.
You should thank TeamLiquid mostly , not Blizzard.
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On January 16 2012 07:54 bOneSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 07:50 akaname wrote:On January 16 2012 07:21 StRyKeR wrote:
What's so wrong about this? I'm sick of people who feel entitled, that somehow they should get everything for free.
These tournaments are profiting off of sc2, making money off of advertisements and viewers. For what reason should blizzard NOT charge a fee? thank god someone said it. blizzard continue to support their games long after launch, the more money they can continue to make, the better SC2 will be. OP if you really hate blizzard that much just f*** off, i don't understand why someone who 'loathes' blizzard would be watching tournaments for their game and then visiting a forum for their game. Let's be serious, without TeamLiquid or the pro BW scene in Korea SC2 wouldn't have happened. You should thank TeamLiquid mostly , not Blizzard.
errr... what has that got to do with what i said?
edit: ah i see, you're at teamliquid even though you hate SC2 nm i sort of get it.
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EPT
