EPTNASL Offseason - Page 7
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Jarrito
United States51 Posts
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:01 Killerhands wrote: What's your preference... a game being played or a walkover? I prefer a game being played. I also prefer advance warning if there is a walkover. For example, I tuned into a NASL watch between herO and demuslim. It was the only reason I tuned in and organized my schedule around it. Then it turned out to be a walkover. NASL should have had the decency to let the public know it advance that it was a walkover, | ||
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Killerhands
United States269 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:04 Hrrrrm wrote: If you're trying to infer that the delays were caused because they were trying to avoid walkovers you'd be wrong. Ton of walkover still occurred anyways. The main reason why a ton of games were played 3-4 weeks ahead of time was because of the craziness that was the end of the 2011 season. I believe Xeris said this in another NASL post or someone affiliated did. That being said they had no right to keep that shit hidden and continue to advertise "2-3 day" delayed games like nothing ever changed. Whoa whoa whoa.... when did they ever "continue to advertise 2-3 days in advance". That is completely baseless bashing. I'm talking mostly for Season 1 anyways. Also, I don't think you're factoring in player schedules at all. We all know players can't make everything all the time. If the players can agree on an earlier date to play they're welcome to within reason I'd imagine, which again, is a lot better than getting to the day-of and then someone not being able to make it and have it turn into a walkover. You're making baseless assumptions for issues that you think could've been easily avoided by the flick of a wrist. Season 2 was explained a few times through interviews and otherwise that they adjusted to a 2 week lead time to help out not only with walkover issues but also to make the post season and finals easier to deal with come the end of the season. I'm not saying that it wasn't an issue or completely justified but implying you were "cheated" because of it is just plain dumb. -_- Also, NASL did start announcing walkovers durin Season 2 if you paid attention and read the threads/facebook/twitter. Either way, I don't think it even remotely justifies the amount of hostility in waxangel's comment. Especially with his role in Team Liquid. | ||
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:03 VirgilSC2 wrote: Like I said, I was a huge critic of both Seasons 1 and 2. Hell, all you have to do is go back in time like a month to see me railing on NASL for things like listing MajOr as a TSL player. Season 2 was absolutely terrible as far as the regular season goes, and it would appear that they've learned the lesson. Xeris already left Fnatic so he could focus more on NASL (and other projects) and I think in 2012 NASL is looking to pull a complete 180. Furthermore, even if you're not a huge fan of NASL, there is no reason to come into their 2012 announcement thread (where they're trying to fix just about everything you seem to dislike about it) and shit all over it. Have a little class. There is a reason that NASL gets a lot of shit compared to other tournaments. After the debacle at MLG Dallas, MLG took in community feedback and fixed the majority of the problem for MLG Columbus. NASL has a track record of promising a great product and taking in community input, but not delivering the great product, which was demonstrated in Season 1 to Season 2. NASL hasn't shown me that Season 3 will be any different. Of course NASL will get shit, until they demonstrate otherwise. Xeris has left fnatic, but he has also said that he would like to manage another starcraft 2 team if the opportunity presents itself. So, we might see him just as busy as before if not more. Furthermore CSL is expanding in Europe, currently in the UK, but they are looking into Germany and other European countries. So this means Xeris will be more busy compared to Season 1 and 2. | ||
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Russalo
United States6 Posts
On January 02 2012 09:46 Odal wrote: It's kinda interesting that you chose to use the word live twice to explain a format that it isn't live. Lets talk about live. What we described is "100% Live" as in Casters Broadcasting live games that are being played live. AS-LIVE is the Casters broadcasting live from replays that are from earlier that day. If anyone can come up with a way where we can do everything 100% Live I am open to hearing it. With progamers in pretty much every timezone, there is no time that will work on a daily basis for all progamers. We figure if we broadcast around 6pm PST that will work for the US timezones and actually work for Korea. It will create a headache for the EU players that will be forced to stay up until 3am to play. With this format we will have the players that can be available live play live for the broadcast. But we will also be able to accommodate players in areas that it is not ideal playtime wise. The other hurdle we face is players traveling for other live events. We have to allow for players travel to other events. In these cases I see the games being played in advance of the broadcast day. I think we have 2 options in regards to broadcasting these games. 1) Broadcast the games in the next scheduled broadcast or 2) Broadcast the games on the day they were scheduled to air and let everyone know when the games were played. I am leaning toward option 2 since that way BarCrafts and other fans will know when to tune in to see their favorite players. I am comfortable with 100% disclosure on dates games were played. Season One started with games being recorded live 24 hours before we broadcast. About 2 weeks in we extended that to 48 hours before we broadcast. In Season Two we decided to extend that to 3 weeks before broadcast in order to make the workflow a bit more manageable and be able to QC everything (in season one if we found an error many time there was no time left before broadcast to fix the error). To make things worse for us Blizzard patched in season 2 at the beginning of the season. We also had a bunch of matches that were filmed in week one that were slated for broadcast in week 8. In Season 3 we plan to find a way to do this as live as possible and still be accommodating to player's play times and schedules while still being able to keep the production value up. I hope this give some clarity to the Live changes in the works for season 3. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:37 Russalo wrote: The other hurdle we face is players traveling for other live events. We have to allow for players travel to other events. In these cases I see the games being played in advance of the broadcast day. I think we have 2 options in regards to broadcasting these games. 1) Broadcast the games in the next scheduled broadcast or 2) Broadcast the games on the day they were scheduled to air and let everyone know when the games were played. I am leaning toward option 2 since that way BarCrafts and other fans will know when to tune in to see their favorite players. I am comfortable with 100% disclosure on dates games were played. ... In Season 3 we plan to find a way to do this as live as possible and still be accommodating to player's play times and schedules while still being able to keep the production value up. I hope this give some clarity to the Live changes in the works for season 3. You say this.... but the OP says this: games won’t be broadcast more than a day after they are played Your quote (Russ) makes it sound like this isn't settled yet, and maybe things will be broadcast well after they are played, but there will be transparency. But Xeris promised in the OP that all games would be broadcast within a day... Forgive me being a little jaded by this point, but this seems to be exactly the same sort of double-messages and contradictions and general lack of clarity that we've all come to expect from NASL. Can you all please make sure you only advertise things once you're actually sure they're happening? I understand option #1 above being bad. Obviously you need to have a clear schedule of matches that is actually followed. But now if/when you do it, everyone is going to see you as breaking a promise, and they'll be right. Like 2 pages back, everyone was indignantly saying that NASL didn't back out of promises like some said they did. It'd be nice if it took more than two pages for evidence to appear supporting the accusation. | ||
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Killerhands
United States269 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:51 aristarchus wrote: You say this.... but the OP says this: Your quote (Russ) makes it sound like this isn't settled yet, and maybe things will be broadcast well after they are played, but there will be transparency. But Xeris promised in the OP that all games would be broadcast within a day... Forgive me being a little jaded by this point, but this seems to be exactly the same sort of double-messages and contradictions and general lack of clarity that we've all come to expect from NASL. Can you all please make sure you only advertise things once you're actually sure they're happening? I understand option #1 above being bad. Obviously you need to have a clear schedule of matches that is actually followed. But now if/when you do it, everyone is going to see you as breaking a promise, and they'll be right. Like 2 pages back, everyone was indignantly saying that NASL didn't back out of promises like some said they did. It'd be nice if it took more than two pages for evidence to appear supporting the accusation. I think what he's referring to is that games could be played a day or two in advance but would be casted live during the broadcast with replays. So the broadcast itself (with the exception of the EU Rebroadcast) would be LIVE with games casted live (actually in the game as it's being played) when applicable, but if there was an issue and players couldn't make the time to play live they would've been played in advanced and then broadcasted the same night as the other games which were live live. correct me if I'm wrong... but that's what I gathered from it.  | ||
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Russalo
United States6 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:51 aristarchus wrote: You say this.... but the OP says this: Your quote (Russ) makes it sound like this isn't settled yet, and maybe things will be broadcast well after they are played, but there will be transparency. But Xeris promised in the OP that all games would be broadcast within a day... Forgive me being a little jaded by this point, but this seems to be exactly the same sort of double-messages and contradictions and general lack of clarity that we've all come to expect from NASL. Can you all please make sure you only advertise things once you're actually sure they're happening? Me posting here is an effort to be more communicative with the community with what we are up to. I believe it is better for me to post. What I was saying with option 1. in the event we have to reschedule for a valid reason is that we can keep the replays fresh, no more than a day but the downside would be the game would be broadcast on a different day that originally scheduled. This would cause different issues, people missing a game they wanted to see or BarCrafts having more or less games on a given night. Option 2 allows us to have the audience tune in when they expect to see a match but know when the game was played that way if the game no longer interests them they can move on. I think it really depends on the difference in the length of time between the scheduled broadcast and when the game had to be played. I think if it is less than a week it would be better to play it on the scheduled day. If it has to be more than that it would be better to broadcast the game earlier. Our biggest goal is to have the games played. It doesn't do anyone any good if we are too rigid and force lots of walkovers because we can't schedule around other events. I understand option #1 above being bad. Obviously you need to have a clear schedule of matches that is actually followed. But now if/when you do it, everyone is going to see you as breaking a promise, and they'll be right. Like 2 pages back, everyone was indignantly saying that NASL didn't back out of promises like some said they did. It'd be nice if it took more than two pages for evidence to appear supporting the accusation. I am asking for opinions. I see this as the two options I have mentioned above. If you have another idea I am all ears. | ||
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
can't wait for the season to get started. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On January 02 2012 10:29 Killerhands wrote: Whoa whoa whoa.... when did they ever "continue to advertise 2-3 days in advance". That is completely baseless bashing. I'm talking mostly for Season 1 anyways. Also, I don't think you're factoring in player schedules at all. We all know players can't make everything all the time. If the players can agree on an earlier date to play they're welcome to within reason I'd imagine, which again, is a lot better than getting to the day-of and then someone not being able to make it and have it turn into a walkover. You're making baseless assumptions for issues that you think could've been easily avoided by the flick of a wrist. Season 2 was explained a few times through interviews and otherwise that they adjusted to a 2 week lead time to help out not only with walkover issues but also to make the post season and finals easier to deal with come the end of the season. I'm not saying that it wasn't an issue or completely justified but implying you were "cheated" because of it is just plain dumb. -_- Also, NASL did start announcing walkovers durin Season 2 if you paid attention and read the threads/facebook/twitter. Either way, I don't think it even remotely justifies the amount of hostility in waxangel's comment. Especially with his role in Team Liquid. No, the didn't. I'm not a NASL hater, I actually really like what they are doing, but a marquee match of the regular season, a massively in form DeMuslim vs Hero, which was basically guaranteed to decide their group was a walkover. In the LR thread for that day, everyone was discussing how awesome the game was going to be, how excited they were. The NASL must surely have seen that thread, yet none of them bothered to post that in fact that game wasn't taking place. BUT: Good luck to you guys. You deserve credit for doing something extremely difficult, starting an escorts league. We need more people like you. | ||
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
Your wrong when you say all you promised was a $100,000.00 league. We were told it would be top notch production, the best of the best from all over the world (of course the Korean issue wasn't all your fault). We were also told that the games being played were to be casted the day before broadcasting and yet we find out that in season two most of the games/series were all played on the same day and broadcasted weeks later. You have alot of work to do to win over most of the community and as much as I hate to say i'm not putting to much trust in your words. Please prove me wrong and deliver on season three unlike seasons one and two. | ||
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
FREE VODS! <3 | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On January 02 2012 11:31 Russalo wrote: Me posting here is an effort to be more communicative with the community with what we are up to. I believe it is better for me to post. What I was saying with option 1. in the event we have to reschedule for a valid reason is that we can keep the replays fresh, no more than a day but the downside would be the game would be broadcast on a different day that originally scheduled. This would cause different issues, people missing a game they wanted to see or BarCrafts having more or less games on a given night. Option 2 allows us to have the audience tune in when they expect to see a match but know when the game was played that way if the game no longer interests them they can move on. I think it really depends on the difference in the length of time between the scheduled broadcast and when the game had to be played. I think if it is less than a week it would be better to play it on the scheduled day. If it has to be more than that it would be better to broadcast the game earlier. Our biggest goal is to have the games played. It doesn't do anyone any good if we are too rigid and force lots of walkovers because we can't schedule around other events. I am asking for opinions. I see this as the two options I have mentioned above. If you have another idea I am all ears. I get that you're asking for opinions. And I think the tradeoffs you describe are accurate and reasonable. And I can see either decision being fine. And if you decide to cast them on the scheduled day as long as it's within a week, and otherwise cast them earlier, that's fine. These are all perfectly reasonable decisions, and it's great that you're asking for feedback. But Xeris in the OP said it was settled and that all games would be broadcast within a day of getting played. What you're saying now is that that might not be true and you're looking for feedback, etc. Your actions can all be perfectly good, but if they're in conflict with what you're advertising, people are going to get confused, and they're going to be annoyed because what you're doing doesn't match the announcement they remember. It's just unprofessional. NASL has been plagued by an amazing lack of clarity and transparency. A lot of us keep pointing this out and asking questions, and trying to make clear what's going on, but the message doesn't seem to get through. There have been any number of sub-optimal things about NASL, but all of them have been made worse by a lack of clarity. The 360p change happened without any announcement and no one made clear what was going on, and it was in conflict with earlier promises. If it had just been advertised that way in the first place (or if there had been a clear announcement of the change) it would have gotten a lot less flack. Same with walkovers and so forth. There were threads full of people posting quotes from contradictory posts, trying to figure out what on earth was happening. There seems to be a culture at NASL of poor communication, both within NASL and with the community at large. I don't know if you didn't understand the point I was trying to make, or are just purposely avoiding it, but please, please realize what's going on and make a concerted effort to have everyone with NASL only post things that they're sure are happening. If it's a hope or a possibility or something you're looking for feedback on, say that. Don't let anyone say it's certain when it's not. | ||
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duk3
United States807 Posts
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cydereal
United States193 Posts
Move the final to Anaheim. Your local SoCal fanbase has a hard time justifying the trip to Ontario if they're very casual. I went all three days, but take down some of the barriers to entry for casuals! Smooth things over with the Koreans. Your last finals were thoroughly entertaining, but the format and the agreement needs to exist to bring the top players here, not just the top players from foreign teams. Keep working, despite the hate! You guys are learning. The grassroots nature of your events shouldn't be overlooked. I hope NASL grows in 2012 | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On January 02 2012 11:47 magnaflow wrote: Season one was hyped.. failed to deliver, season two was hyped.. failed to deliver, season three?? Your wrong when you say all you promised was a $100,000.00 league. We were told it would be top notch production, the best of the best from all over the world (of course the Korean issue wasn't all your fault). We were also told that the games being played were to be casted the day before broadcasting and yet we find out that in season two most of the games/series were all played on the same day and broadcasted weeks later. You have alot of work to do to win over most of the community and as much as I hate to say i'm not putting to much trust in your words. Please prove me wrong and deliver on season three unlike seasons one and two. How is it every other major league in the fucking world can manage to work with the Koreans but NASL can't? I agree with your other criticisms, my biggest concern with NASL is that if things were going to actually change drastically it would mean changes at the top (i.e. firing/replacing people currently in charge), something they clearly are not willing to do. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On January 02 2012 13:00 Duravi wrote: How is it every other major league in the fucking world can manage to work with the Koreans but NASL can't? I agree with your other criticisms, my biggest concern with NASL is that if things were going to actually change drastically it would mean changes at the top (i.e. firing/replacing people currently in charge), something they clearly are not willing to do. I am a huge critic of NASL but the Korean thing was not their fault. SC2CON was a bunch of horseshit. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
GSL and NASL both have a special cache to me because it brings out the best in some. Remember those seasons Nestea couldn't be beaten in GSL but bombed horribly in GSTL. Everyone knew he was turning it on for the big leagues. Similarly some foreign players in NASL. Unexpected runs from foreigners because they spend time prepping for their opponents (this is harder to see with lag between play date and broadcast date, but still). If some Koreans aren't chomping at the bit for the 'easy' money of NASL, screw em. We'll take the ones that are. | ||
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