NASL Offseason

On January 02 2012 06:21 mrtomjones wrote:
so is it a team league only or are you doing a long individual league again?

On January 02 2012 06:23 Plexa wrote:
Team league going to be trialling TPW maps?

On January 02 2012 06:40 nooboon wrote:
Always up for more team leagues, but i would prefer that NASL does something other than the all-kill format.

On January 02 2012 06:38 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Oh wow!

This seems to change everything I didn't really find appealing about NASL! The Live-game factor always really bothered me, so this is awesome news!

Just out of curiosity, what are the team restrictions looking like as far as roster-changes mid-offseason? We're looking at expanding our roster by a few players in the near future but would love to try our hand at competing if possible.

I'd also like to open up to some Q&A, I'll answer whatever I can without revealing too many things

On January 02 2012 06:56 mouzKaelaris wrote:
Indeed definitely excited about a Team League! my favourite kinda format! Hopefully there's some Koreans too to give us mouz-ies a run for our money <3

Love NASL in general!

LIVE / AS-LIVE broadcasting! We will be bringing you multiple matches totally LIVE each day, and games won’t be broadcast more than a day after they are played

On January 02 2012 06:47 Xeris wrote:


who is we? i thought you were in EG?

also... team league announcement tomorrow ~

On January 02 2012 08:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is there any way to apply for the NASL team league?

On January 02 2012 08:20 Xeris wrote:
Team league info coming tomorrow.

As for Koreans -- if they want to play they are more than welcome. Our rules are pretty clear, it's really up to them. We're not going to make special accommodations to them, however.

NASL will not be 'selecting' players to play in the next season, everything is through qualifiers. The only reason we invited people in Season 2, as I said several months ago, was because of the Koreans withdrawing at the last moment.

On January 02 2012 08:23 Xeris wrote:
about 1-2 weeks

On January 02 2012 08:43 coddan wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with "TPW maps" - what are they?

On January 02 2012 08:56 Waxangel wrote:
great.... worthless until we see them implemented though

promising big things and not delivering has been a pretty standard NASL trend

On January 02 2012 08:56 Waxangel wrote:
great.... worthless until we see them implemented though

promising big things and not delivering has been a pretty standard NASL trend

On January 02 2012 08:56 Waxangel wrote:
great.... worthless until we see them implemented though

promising big things and not delivering has been a pretty standard NASL trend

On January 02 2012 09:09 ReactoR wrote:
Live / As-Live means casting live from a replay, correct?

On January 02 2012 09:11 Xeris wrote:



LIVE == casting 100% live.

AS-LIVE == the game was played in the morning, and we cast it at night with our live broadcast

On January 02 2012 09:13 mango_destroyer wrote:
how will you deal with potential stream cheating if its real LIVE casting.

On January 02 2012 09:13 mango_destroyer wrote:
how will you deal with potential stream cheating if its real LIVE casting.

AS-LIVE == the game was played in the morning, and we cast it at night with our live broadcast

On January 02 2012 09:22 XRaDiiX wrote:


Xeris said right above

On January 02 2012 09:33 StarMoon wrote:
Is there a particular reason you are avoiding the question of who is casting this team tournament, and who is casting next main season?

I'm sure I'm not the only one that considers whether I like the casters a major reason for why I watch games.

On January 02 2012 09:33 StarMoon wrote:
Is there a particular reason you are avoiding the question of who is casting this team tournament, and who is casting next main season?

I'm sure I'm not the only one that considers whether I like the casters a major reason for why I watch games.

On January 02 2012 09:29 Waxangel wrote:


I'm sure you'll "deliver."

But what kind of shape will it come in?

On January 02 2012 09:29 Waxangel wrote:


I'm sure you'll "deliver."

But what kind of shape will it come in?

On January 02 2012 09:36 VirgilSC2 wrote:

Perhaps he wants to keep it in the dark until he actually announces it formally, as in tomorrow? Or perhaps he hasn't locked down the casters for Season 3 and doesn't want to promise a certain caster only to have them step out before the season begins?


This is pretty uncalled for, I'll admit I was a huge critic of NASL Seasons 1 and 2, and I'd even go as far as to say I was unnecessarily harsh on some aspects, but this just seems like......tournament racism.

On January 02 2012 09:45 Rylaji wrote:


Im not a particular fan of NASL but who the fuck took a piss in your cornflakes today?

On January 02 2012 09:56 ptbl wrote:


Enough with the brown nosing. Most of the criticisms against NASL are legit. For example, in Season 1 they changed it from 480p to 360p without notifying the public. Furthermore, they ignored the outcries and kept 360p in season 2.

In Season 1, people complained that NASL wasn't announcing walkovers ahead of time. In Season 2, NASL still hasn't changed and walkovers were kept under wraps.

In Season 1, some games were played a couple of weeks in advance. People complained. In Season 2, the majority of the games were played 3-4 weeks before the airing date.

These are just a couple of examples off the top of my head. There's a history and a track record of NASL promising to deliver a great product from one season into the next, but we are always disappointed.

Waxangel is right. NASL has to prove it to us that this time it is different. I'm tired of being let down and disappointed. I'll wait and see.

On January 02 2012 09:56 ptbl wrote:


Enough with the brown nosing. Most of the criticisms against NASL are legit. For example, in Season 1 they changed it from 480p to 360p without notifying the public. Furthermore, they ignored the outcries and kept 360p in season 2.

In Season 1, people complained that NASL wasn't announcing walkovers ahead of time. In Season 2, NASL still hasn't changed and walkovers were kept under wraps.

In Season 1, some games were played a couple of weeks in advance. People complained. In Season 2, the majority of the games were played 3-4 weeks before the airing date.

These are just a couple of examples off the top of my head. There's a history and a track record of NASL promising to deliver a great product from one season into the next, but we are always disappointed.

Waxangel is right. NASL has to prove it to us that this time it is different. I'm tired of being let down and disappointed. I'll wait and see.

On January 02 2012 10:01 Killerhands wrote:


What's your preference... a game being played or a walkover?

On January 02 2012 10:01 Killerhands wrote:


What's your preference... a game being played or a walkover?

On January 02 2012 10:04 Hrrrrm wrote:


If you're trying to infer that the delays were caused because they were trying to avoid walkovers you'd be wrong. Ton of walkover still occurred anyways. The main reason why a ton of games were played 3-4 weeks ahead of time was because of the craziness that was the end of the 2011 season. I believe Xeris said this in another NASL post or someone affiliated did. That being said they had no right to keep that shit hidden and continue to advertise "2-3 day" delayed games like nothing ever changed.

On January 02 2012 10:03 VirgilSC2 wrote:

Like I said, I was a huge critic of both Seasons 1 and 2. Hell, all you have to do is go back in time like a month to see me railing on NASL for things like listing MajOr as a TSL player.

Season 2 was absolutely terrible as far as the regular season goes, and it would appear that they've learned the lesson. Xeris already left Fnatic so he could focus more on NASL (and other projects) and I think in 2012 NASL is looking to pull a complete 180.

Furthermore, even if you're not a huge fan of NASL, there is no reason to come into their 2012 announcement thread (where they're trying to fix just about everything you seem to dislike about it) and shit all over it. Have a little class.

On January 02 2012 09:46 Odal wrote:
It's kinda interesting that you chose to use the word live twice to explain a format that it isn't live.

On January 02 2012 10:37 Russalo wrote:
The other hurdle we face is players traveling for other live events. We have to allow for players travel to other events. In these cases I see the games being played in advance of the broadcast day. I think we have 2 options in regards to broadcasting these games. 1) Broadcast the games in the next scheduled broadcast or 2) Broadcast the games on the day they were scheduled to air and let everyone know when the games were played. I am leaning toward option 2 since that way BarCrafts and other fans will know when to tune in to see their favorite players. I am comfortable with 100% disclosure on dates games were played.

...

In Season 3 we plan to find a way to do this as live as possible and still be accommodating to player's play times and schedules while still being able to keep the production value up.

I hope this give some clarity to the Live changes in the works for season 3.

games won’t be broadcast more than a day after they are played

On January 02 2012 10:51 aristarchus wrote:


You say this.... but the OP says this:



Your quote (Russ) makes it sound like this isn't settled yet, and maybe things will be broadcast well after they are played, but there will be transparency. But Xeris promised in the OP that all games would be broadcast within a day... Forgive me being a little jaded by this point, but this seems to be exactly the same sort of double-messages and contradictions and general lack of clarity that we've all come to expect from NASL. Can you all please make sure you only advertise things once you're actually sure they're happening?

I understand option #1 above being bad. Obviously you need to have a clear schedule of matches that is actually followed. But now if/when you do it, everyone is going to see you as breaking a promise, and they'll be right. Like 2 pages back, everyone was indignantly saying that NASL didn't back out of promises like some said they did. It'd be nice if it took more than two pages for evidence to appear supporting the accusation.

On January 02 2012 10:51 aristarchus wrote:


You say this.... but the OP says this:



Your quote (Russ) makes it sound like this isn't settled yet, and maybe things will be broadcast well after they are played, but there will be transparency. But Xeris promised in the OP that all games would be broadcast within a day... Forgive me being a little jaded by this point, but this seems to be exactly the same sort of double-messages and contradictions and general lack of clarity that we've all come to expect from NASL. Can you all please make sure you only advertise things once you're actually sure they're happening?

I understand option #1 above being bad. Obviously you need to have a clear schedule of matches that is actually followed. But now if/when you do it, everyone is going to see you as breaking a promise, and they'll be right. Like 2 pages back, everyone was indignantly saying that NASL didn't back out of promises like some said they did. It'd be nice if it took more than two pages for evidence to appear supporting the accusation.

On January 02 2012 10:29 Killerhands wrote:



Whoa whoa whoa.... when did they ever "continue to advertise 2-3 days in advance". That is completely baseless bashing. I'm talking mostly for Season 1 anyways. Also, I don't think you're factoring in player schedules at all. We all know players can't make everything all the time. If the players can agree on an earlier date to play they're welcome to within reason I'd imagine, which again, is a lot better than getting to the day-of and then someone not being able to make it and have it turn into a walkover. You're making baseless assumptions for issues that you think could've been easily avoided by the flick of a wrist.

Season 2 was explained a few times through interviews and otherwise that they adjusted to a 2 week lead time to help out not only with walkover issues but also to make the post season and finals easier to deal with come the end of the season.

I'm not saying that it wasn't an issue or completely justified but implying you were "cheated" because of it is just plain dumb. -_- Also, NASL did start announcing walkovers durin Season 2 if you paid attention and read the threads/facebook/twitter.

Either way, I don't think it even remotely justifies the amount of hostility in waxangel's comment. Especially with his role in Team Liquid.

On January 02 2012 11:31 Russalo wrote:


Me posting here is an effort to be more communicative with the community with what we are up to. I believe it is better for me to post. What I was saying with option 1. in the event we have to reschedule for a valid reason is that we can keep the replays fresh, no more than a day but the downside would be the game would be broadcast on a different day that originally scheduled. This would cause different issues, people missing a game they wanted to see or BarCrafts having more or less games on a given night. Option 2 allows us to have the audience tune in when they expect to see a match but know when the game was played that way if the game no longer interests them they can move on. I think it really depends on the difference in the length of time between the scheduled broadcast and when the game had to be played. I think if it is less than a week it would be better to play it on the scheduled day. If it has to be more than that it would be better to broadcast the game earlier. Our biggest goal is to have the games played. It doesn't do anyone any good if we are too rigid and force lots of walkovers because we can't schedule around other events.



I am asking for opinions. I see this as the two options I have mentioned above. If you have another idea I am all ears.

On January 02 2012 11:47 magnaflow wrote:
Season one was hyped.. failed to deliver, season two was hyped.. failed to deliver, season three??

Your wrong when you say all you promised was a $100,000.00 league. We were told it would be top notch production, the best of the best from all over the world (of course the Korean issue wasn't all your fault). We were also told that the games being played were to be casted the day before broadcasting and yet we find out that in season two most of the games/series were all played on the same day and broadcasted weeks later.

You have alot of work to do to win over most of the community and as much as I hate to say i'm not putting to much trust in your words. Please prove me wrong and deliver on season three unlike seasons one and two.

On January 02 2012 13:00 Duravi wrote:

How is it every other major league in the fucking world can manage to work with the Koreans but NASL can't? I agree with your other criticisms, my biggest concern with NASL is that if things were going to actually change drastically it would mean changes at the top (i.e. firing/replacing people currently in charge), something they clearly are not willing to do.

On January 02 2012 13:51 Diamond wrote:


I am a huge critic of NASL but the Korean thing was not their fault. SC2CON was a bunch of horseshit.

On January 02 2012 14:17 Soap wrote:


Can't emphasize this enough. Also the only other major league in existance outside of Korea is IPL, and besides being ran by a News Corp company, they have not had a season after the koreans came up with their demands.

On January 02 2012 14:22 Corvette wrote:


what about MLG?

On January 02 2012 13:51 Diamond wrote:


I am a huge critic of NASL but the Korean thing was not their fault. SC2CON was a bunch of horseshit.

On January 02 2012 09:29 Waxangel wrote:


I'm sure you'll "deliver."

But what kind of shape will it come in?

On January 02 2012 10:26 ptbl wrote:


I prefer a game being played. I also prefer advance warning if there is a walkover. For example, I tuned into a NASL watch between herO and demuslim. It was the only reason I tuned in and organized my schedule around it. Then it turned out to be a walkover. NASL should have had the decency to let the public know it advance that it was a walkover,

On January 02 2012 06:18 Xeris wrote:
[*] LIVE / AS-LIVE broadcasting! We will be bringing you multiple matches totally LIVE each day, and games won’t be broadcast more than a day after they are played

On January 02 2012 09:56 ptbl wrote:


Enough with the brown nosing. Most of the criticisms against NASL are legit. For example, in Season 1 they changed it from 480p to 360p without notifying the public. Furthermore, they ignored the outcries and kept 360p in season 2.

In Season 1, people complained that NASL wasn't announcing walkovers ahead of time. In Season 2, NASL still hasn't changed and walkovers were kept under wraps.

In Season 1, some games were played a couple of weeks in advance. People complained. In Season 2, the majority of the games were played 3-4 weeks before the airing date.

These are just a couple of examples off the top of my head. There's a history and a track record of NASL promising to deliver a great product from one season into the next, but we are always disappointed.

Waxangel is right. NASL has to prove it to us that this time it is different. I'm tired of being let down and disappointed. I'll wait and see.

On January 02 2012 06:40 nooboon wrote:
Always up for more team leagues, but i would prefer that NASL does something other than the all-kill format.

LIVE / AS-LIVE broadcasting! We will be bringing you multiple matches totally LIVE each day, and games won’t be broadcast more than a day after they are played

On January 02 2012 21:32 kochujang wrote:

I love the all-kill format.

On January 02 2012 23:30 Oww wrote:
Still no HD for all?

On January 02 2012 19:40 Naniwa wrote:
is there any way to qualify for nasl ? Or whatsup with that.

On January 03 2012 04:32 threshy wrote:
Gretorp makes NASL unwatchable for me (and several of my friends). I feel bad because he's probably nice, and it seems like maybe it's hard for NASL to get rid of him for some reason (indeed it looks like Xeris isn't even addressing Gretorp complaints here). Just about any caster would be better--actually, I can't think of a single well-known caster who's even close to being that bad. I used to think that incontrol was bad, but he was excellent compared to Gretorp.

I was really excited about NASL and I even paid for season 2. But I barely watched any of it because every time I turned it on, Gretorp was there. Oh well.

On January 02 2012 09:29 Waxangel wrote:


I'm sure you'll "deliver."

But what kind of shape will it come in?

On January 03 2012 06:10 Lebzetu wrote:
I don't think NASL gets it. Tournaments like Dreamhack and IPL provide free HD, and not so coincidentally, those are the ones people love to watch.
MLG is ok because the 480p isnt too horrid, but still.

On January 03 2012 07:32 DBOWNIZZ wrote:
Honestly, I don't mind that Korean teams are not participating in the NASL. Obviously they pretty much own every tournament there in so, I like that fact that I can watch a high level tournament with only foreigner's duking it out.

On January 03 2012 08:42 Duravi wrote:

That by your own definition makes it not high level.

On January 03 2012 08:20 Darkstar_X wrote:
What game titles will be featured in NASL 3?

On January 03 2012 11:26 onedayclose wrote:
I think you should do a team league BEFORE attempting season 3. Doing both simultaneous will put a strain on resources and be absolutely too much content for a single subscriber to keep up with. Just look at GSL. They had 4 seasons before they attempted a team league. And when they did they had it as a short stand alone single elimination one week tournament. Tha'ts exactly what I will expect from NASL and nothing more. Don't do yourself in by attempting to do a 3 month SC2 team league along with a 3 month SC2 star league simultaneous. Its just way too much content!

On January 03 2012 11:26 onedayclose wrote:
I think you should do a team league BEFORE attempting season 3. Doing both simultaneous will put a strain on resources and be absolutely too much content for a single subscriber to keep up with. Just look at GSL. They had 4 seasons before they attempted a team league. And when they did they had it as a short stand alone single elimination one week tournament. Tha'ts exactly what I will expect from NASL and nothing more. Don't do yourself in by attempting to do a 3 month SC2 team league along with a 3 month SC2 star league simultaneous. Its just way too much content!

On January 03 2012 11:49 tubs wrote:
1) Koreans dropping out - that was a HUGE blow to the NASL and unfortunately not bending backwards to their demands was the wrong BUSINESS DECISION to take. Like most viewers I want to see the best versus the best battle it out - not 2nd tier or 3rd tier players. So unless the top koreans are coming back in season three, I won't be buying another season or watching the NASL regular season.

On January 03 2012 12:58 LuckoftheIrish wrote:


I find this attitude pretty shocking, actually. I feel exactly the opposite.

On January 03 2012 11:49 tubs wrote:
Coming from someone who actually bought a season one ticket, the reason I didn't buy a season two ticket was due to two main reasons.

1) Koreans dropping out - that was a HUGE blow to the NASL and unfortunately not bending backwards to their demands was the wrong BUSINESS DECISION to take. Like most viewers I want to see the best versus the best battle it out - not 2nd tier or 3rd tier players. So unless the top koreans are coming back in season three, I won't be buying another season or watching the NASL regular season.

2) Execution - ideas are absolutely worthless without being backed up with efficient execution. MLG started off horribly execution wise but then cleaned things up and has production quality rivalling the GSL. IPL pretty much just got it right from the get go and has impressive production quality as well. Until the NASL approaches even the same ballpark in terms of quality with MLG, GSL, and IPL, it's just going to look like a homemade amateur event in comparison. The red carpet idea was incredibly ambitious in NASL season 2 but the execution was terrible. My advice... stick to LESS AMBITIOUS ideas and focus on EXECUTION of those less ambitious ideas first. Once the execution is clean, move to more ambitious ideas. Don't put the cart before the horse. "Keep it simple stupid" should be the mantra until production quality has gotten AT LEAST ten times better.

On January 03 2012 10:50 The Final Boss wrote:
I really hope that this isn't an all-kill format Team League. Proleague has the best format, whether it is Bo5 or Bo7 with a seventh game ace match. Regardless, I love more team leagues, but there's enough all-kill style leagues, and the PL style is better.

Also, more TPW maps sounds really good. I love watching games on those maps as they're fresh and exciting! ^^

On January 03 2012 12:18 Xeris wrote:
Just to clarify if there has been any confusion: LIVE broadcasting will start during Season 3 -- we will not implement it during the team league. We will have everything ready to deploy live broadcasting when we start the next full season.

On January 03 2012 16:24 Jehct wrote:

I think all-kill format just works better for international SC2 right now. Teams and tournaments have enough trouble organizing for teamleagues as it is - getting them to pre-submit lineups, then set out a rough time where every player has to show (and make sure they're there) is just ridiculously hard. Not to mention a lot of people simply prefer all-kill style since it lets them see more of their favourite players.

I really don't think proleague-format has a place outside of (very) high-profile events where players are guaranteed to show and it's not too much trouble scheduling (ie. GSTL), and in those events people want all-kill. Maybe we'll see it change as SC2 grows, but right for now proleague format can stay with proleague - it just takes a lot more management (and is a lot harder in terms of lineup picking and such). The benefits (ie. added strategy/depth) don't really show in low/mid-tier tournaments anyway.

On January 03 2012 12:18 Xeris wrote:
Just to clarify if there has been any confusion: LIVE broadcasting will start during Season 3 -- we will not implement it during the team league. We will have everything ready to deploy live broadcasting when we start the next full season.