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On December 17 2011 01:19 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 01:17 ScareCrow` wrote:On December 17 2011 01:15 NHY wrote:On December 17 2011 01:10 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 01:08 NHY wrote:On December 17 2011 01:01 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 00:58 NHY wrote:On December 17 2011 00:47 ScareCrow` wrote:On December 17 2011 00:45 NHY wrote:On December 17 2011 00:35 ScareCrow` wrote:
[quote]
GOM did not tell everyone. Otherwise Naniwa wouldn't have thought he had a code S spot they day he was interviewed at the blizzard cup. Nor would MLG make this statement that they thought a S spot still existed. Please stop quoting and replying with this until you link something to the effect of GOM informing the communities involved.
GOM's announcement of new format for 2012 http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740 Nowhere does that state that Providence will no longer reward code S. There is no mention of MLG, and you just assume that it would be there? Of course people would assume they would be there, because MLG did!!! Neither MLG nor GSL stated anywhere that there was no GSL code S seed. And in fact MLG stated on many occasions that there was, so why would anyone question it? You believed what MLG told you and it turned out to be not true. Clearly, GSL must be held responsible. No-no! I never said that! I actually made a post a while back saying there is a chance this could even be MLG's fault. But either way, the discussion is a stand-still until there is any further news or new insight. I'm sure we can all agree on that at least. (which is why I was surprised to see you still posting about how GSL announced the change to foreigners, which they clearly didn't, besides that one image announcing their format.) My point is that they did announce it. An announcement is an announcement. Is an announcement less true if it is short? An announcement is less true if it doesn't get to your target audience. Did you not know that there are 2 Code S seeds in 2012? It did get to the target audience.
You are aware that MC did get hid code S spot based on exchange program and was seeded directly in last code S that was already played with the new format? This shows that there is no irremovable contradictions between new format and exchange program and GOM could, if they wanted to, honor their agreements with MLG, but decided not to but rather to preach to us all about honor, professionalism and respecting others in a quite a condescending way.
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On December 17 2011 01:55 NHY wrote:
The post went from:
GOM is lying, they are making things up
GOM didn't lie but changed rules after NaNiwa won
GOM didn't lie and changed rules before NaNiwa won, but didn't tell anyone
GOM didn't lie, changed rules before NaNiwa won, told eveyone, but their statement is vague.
The lost point I actually agree. GOM should've said it with less ambiguity.
You are being extremely generous in your last statement on behalf of GOM, bordering the deceptive. GOM certainly didn't tell anyone that Providence would not grant a code-S spot.
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I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable.
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On December 17 2011 01:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand how there can be so much judgment without waiting for further statements from MLG and GSL. Everything depends on what those two companies have to say about it. If there's no further statements, well then I guess that speaks for itself.
Maybe it's unfair, but that's what happens when you avoid certain questions. People start to speculate. Usually in a way that supports their positions or prejudices.
Even saying that they are preparing a statement (like MLG had) would go a long way.
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On December 17 2011 01:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand how there can be so much judgment without waiting for further statements from MLG and GSL. Everything depends on what those two companies have to say about it. If there's no further statements, well then I guess that speaks for itself.
Certainly the two company's could clarify the situation, but I think it's completely reasonable for the community to question the validity of those statements. Even if they come up with something more coherent in the future.
With all due respect, we can't expect TL to pursue the truth. I can't think of a single place for news that could be said to be impartial in this matter. I'm not saying that you would mind the truth. But once GOM take it on themselves to hand out spots for code-S, a site like TL, with players that may wan't such a spot, have an interest of staying on GOMs good side.
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On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable.
Did you read the thread?
GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.)
MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.)
What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute.
Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over.
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On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over.
I did read the thread and I have no doubt that GOM is behind this mess and should take responsibility for it. Naniwa was the trigger but the root cause is GOM's lack of professionalism.
EDIT: this is an excellent post, suggest you read it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677
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On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over.
Did you read the thread?
MLG made no such mistakes if they didn't know, and they were not informed.
That's what we are criticizing. GOM is unprofessional for not notifying MLG, foreign fans, and players, that they changed their format of code S at Providence.
Coming off the back of them punishing Naniwa for being unprofessional, they are being hypocritical because they are being unprofessional themselves.
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On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over.
It's not a "simple error". It's a massive, gigantic mistake, and one that it's almost unbelievable that they could make.
GOM informed no-one that Providence would not grant a code-S spot.
They made public plans for 2012, but made no reference to the code-S spot. Seeing the plans, there is no reason to believe it would not be in place. And indeed, it was presumed by EVERYONE, including the people arranging the tournament, MLG, that a code-S spot would be given for Providence. The first anyone in the western scene heard of anything to the contrary was the day after the naniwa vs nestea match.
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On December 17 2011 02:23 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. Did you read the thread? MLG made no such mistakes if they didn't know, and they were not informed. That's what we are criticizing. GOM is unprofessional for not notifying MLG, foreign fans, and players, that they changed their format of code S at Providence. Coming off the back of them punishing Naniwa for being unprofessional, they are being hypocritical because they are being unprofessional themselves.
And you know this how?
How do you know MLG weren't informed of the changes, but things got lost in translation some how?
I mean, you could be right, this could be all GSL's fault. But you can't discount the possibility that this could also be MLG's fault... All it takes is a few missed/misread e-mails.
But there is no proof either way, until as Nazgul said, there is a statement from either side, and if there is none, then that speaks for itself.
Anyway, I'm done for the night, I was on your side of the fence 10 pages ago until I actually looked in to it and realised it could be either sides fault.
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On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over.
It is GOM's fault for not properly notifying MLG, then.
It is MLG's fault for displaying false advertising and misleading the players and fans, but it's hard to really blame them when their source and partner (GOM) doesn't tell them anything or make sure that they're aware of the changes that are being made.
That's why GOM is under fire while MLG is not. MLG definitely made an honest mistake. GOM probably made an honest mistake. But GOM, as the dispensers of information, should have contacted MLG and spelled the changes out in clear-cut words. The fact that they did not make sure that MLG understood what was altered is highly unprofessional at best, because MLG can potentially be sued for something like this as MLG is the only one who technically broke any rules, while GOM would get off scotch-free. I'm not saying they will be sued -- they probably won't be -- but it's very, very bad practice. (This is an understatement.)
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On December 17 2011 02:32 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:23 eshlow wrote:On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. Did you read the thread? MLG made no such mistakes if they didn't know, and they were not informed. That's what we are criticizing. GOM is unprofessional for not notifying MLG, foreign fans, and players, that they changed their format of code S at Providence. Coming off the back of them punishing Naniwa for being unprofessional, they are being hypocritical because they are being unprofessional themselves. And you know this how? How do you know MLG weren't informed of the changes, but things got lost in translation some how? I mean, you could be right, this could be all GSL's fault. But you can't discount the possibility that this could also be MLG's fault... All it takes is a few missed/misread e-mails. But there is no proof either way, until as Nazgul said, there is a statement from either side, and if there is none, then that speaks for itself. Anyway, I'm done for the night, I was on your side of the fence 10 pages ago until I actually looked in to it and realised it could be either sides fault.
Holy crap man how can you argue in this thread without even reading the OP:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/official-mlg-statement-regarding-the-naniwa-code-s-issue
The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.
With the recently announced changes to the 2012 GSL season, GSL switched the MLG Providence Code S invite to two spots at the GSL Blizzard Cup. Naniwa was awarded one of these spots. Unfortunately, the change was made without notification to MLG, but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement.
No notification = unprofessional
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On December 17 2011 02:23 torso wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. I did read the thread and I have no doubt that GOM is behind this mess and should take responsibility for it. Naniwa was the trigger but the root cause is GOM's lack of professionalism. EDIT: this is an excellent post, suggest you read it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677
That post is pretty damning.. GOM people are looking like a bunch of mafiosos..
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On December 17 2011 04:46 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:23 torso wrote:On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. I did read the thread and I have no doubt that GOM is behind this mess and should take responsibility for it. Naniwa was the trigger but the root cause is GOM's lack of professionalism. EDIT: this is an excellent post, suggest you read it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 That post is pretty damning.. GOM people are looking like a bunch of mafiosos..
I'd say more like that poster and those acting like him are looking like a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists trying to look for any minor detail that may or may not exist just to try and prove to themselves that GOM really is guilty.
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If you dislike Korean league's way of handling things, don't watch/follow it then. It's their league, Koreans can do whatever they want, they owe you nothing.
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On December 17 2011 04:46 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 02:23 torso wrote:On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. I did read the thread and I have no doubt that GOM is behind this mess and should take responsibility for it. Naniwa was the trigger but the root cause is GOM's lack of professionalism. EDIT: this is an excellent post, suggest you read it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 That post is pretty damning.. GOM people are looking like a bunch of mafiosos..
The mafia breaks laws (drugs, extortion, murder, etc).
GOM runs Starcraft tournaments, pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to players every year, and you can either choose to watch it or choose not to.
LOL @ mafiosos.
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On December 17 2011 02:11 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 01:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand how there can be so much judgment without waiting for further statements from MLG and GSL. Everything depends on what those two companies have to say about it. If there's no further statements, well then I guess that speaks for itself. Maybe it's unfair, but that's what happens when you avoid certain questions. People start to speculate. Usually in a way that supports their positions or prejudices. Even saying that they are preparing a statement (like MLG had) would go a long way.
To appease the QQ'ers? They did nothing wrong and already released a statement. They can change the rules when they want, it's their event. They don't need to apologize/explain themselves.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but when they released new format at first, wasn't there something like 2 boxes with GSL Code S international spots, and one of those boxes was directly named "MLG Providence spot"?
EDIT: on the picture I mean
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On December 17 2011 06:20 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 04:46 s4life wrote:On December 17 2011 02:23 torso wrote:On December 17 2011 02:19 skipgamer wrote:On December 17 2011 02:10 torso wrote:
I just registered after lurking these forums a long time and as well loyally paying for season after season of GSL. I will not be supporting GOM after this ridiculous & unprofessional way of handling the situation. They will have me back as a viewer if the clean up the mess they themselves have created and apologize to Nani, MLG and to us the viewers of both events.
Shape up GOM, this is not acceptable. Did you read the thread? GOM made a mistake in not announcing their new format and hence the change in their seeding system clearly to the foreign audience. (We have established that they had no ill-intent, nor lied to Naniwa/any parties regarding the lack of a Code S seed.) MLG made a mistake in announcing/informing Naniwa that he had received a Code S seed from his providence performance. (This had a snowball effect of course in the entire community assuming he had.) What is unclear is who made the error in communication between the companies, and is the only thing up for dispute. Either way, this comes down to a simple error and simple mistakes and is not worth getting so worked up over. I did read the thread and I have no doubt that GOM is behind this mess and should take responsibility for it. Naniwa was the trigger but the root cause is GOM's lack of professionalism. EDIT: this is an excellent post, suggest you read it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 That post is pretty damning.. GOM people are looking like a bunch of mafiosos.. The mafia breaks laws (drugs, extortion, murder, etc). GOM runs Starcraft tournaments, pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to players every year, and you can either choose to watch it or choose not to. LOL @ mafiosos.
I agree, no need to call anyone mafioso. Thats rather insulting tbh.
But dont act like GOM are some saints giving away money. They are a company, making money because there are players who are extremely talented and train very hard and have an audience and a fanbase. Im not hating on GOM here, just saying that treating a company with such a dominant position as a pure benefactor of society rarely results in a pretty outcome.
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On December 16 2011 05:10 Chill wrote:
Whoops! We changed the prizes and didn't tell anyone! Sorry guys!
-_-
Edit: Of course I mean GOM.
even if naniwa got the prize gom was entitled to terminate the contractual relationship due to the breach of contractual obligations by naniwa
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EPT
