EPTGOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 64
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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ptmdk
United States3 Posts
That said, it was reasonable for MLG to assume that GSL would take the Providence winner as an S seed. The GSL would allot two seeds for foreigner invites, and assuming that is one reason for the GSL-MLG partnership, MLG is the best source of foreigner skill. There would be very little reason for any deviation from the perspective of both leagues. However the key change here, is that, GSL is no longer contractually obligated to offer the seed, so much as obligated by habit. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
I agree that what Naniwa did was not ok, but don't try to come up with kinda stupid reasons to deny his earned code S spot. Just stay "we punish you for unsportsman actions and you won't be allowed to participate in code S unless you re-qualify for it". That being said, I don't know about all the rules, so this is only my opinion based on my ignorance and common sense. It's good that you recognize the difference between a foreigner and a korean player. Especially since it's way harder for non-koreans to participate in GSL than it's for koreans to go to MLG or other tournaments (GSL lasts way longer etc.). | ||
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
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Biane
Australia645 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:24 Goibon wrote: Understand where you're coming from, but still don't agree with this and it still feels like a severe overreaction to an unfortunate situation that you (GOM) helped create. This is spin, i got dizzy from reading it. This is a punishment plain and simple, you can't act like it isn't and expect people to buy that. We're not stupid. I tolerate players sending a message that a stupid pointless game is stupid and shouldn't happen. I hope tournament organizers all over world learn from this, stop letting these games happen (unless players are eager to battle), and grow some respect for player emotions. They're not robots. I want professionalism from all sides. Naniwa didn't show it, but neither did you. He's a kid with learning to do. You're true professionals who should know better. Good luck. I won't be watching anymore though. I feel like i need to regain trust after supporting for so long then being shown the ugly side of 'ESPORTS'. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t94QV.jpg) Good for you purchasing all those GSL tickets so far, but siding to the area of your emotions now isn't going to help esports/tournaments learn and grow. May be one area that people often forget is How is GSL going to answer to their sponsors? Imagine if GSL let Naniwa off the hook with a stern warning (ie. no punishment), they might not get another sponsor for a while. As much as GOM seems "unprofessional", it is their tournament and thus their decision on what to do. Showing mercy for a "kid with learning to do" is the last thing they can do in front of all their shareholder/investors/sponsors/etc without destroying the professionalism on the business side of things. Losing subscription from people like you is a small price to pay for this situation that should have never occurred in the first place, both through GOM's fault and Naniwa's fault. I'm just glad they decided to take the smarter path and choose the lesser of the two consequence. If you can't bear to see the "ugly side of 'ESPORTS'" when controversy arise then don't watch it. Its an relatively new/emerging sport (sc2 specifically) and such things will always rear its head. By not continuously supporting it will you only dampen the maturity of the sport itself. | ||
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oBlade
United States5609 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:26 uSnAmplified wrote: To the people complaining about it being a probe rush, it shouldn't matter how he did it, if he did something dumb like proxy gates or one base carrier to intentionally lose the results would have been the same. It matters a great deal how he did it. Virtually anything other than a-moving probes while resting your chin on your keyboard arm (and even a-moving probes might have some value in countering 6pool or something, although I'm just extrapolating BW ideas here) has some winning chances. Since they have winning chances, it's impossible to judge the person's intention just by how he moves his units. I might go 1 base carrier with the sole purpose of trying to kill my opponent, but then I happen to lose and get blamed for throwing a game. But beforehand it's impossible to tell the difference. What business is it of anyone's what build or strategy I use? On December 15 2011 11:27 SojuPrime wrote: I really love you GOMTV and FULLY support your decision on dealing with this kid. Really? On December 15 2011 11:28 iamthedave wrote: So... he was true to his ideal and his heart by not giving a shit and not even faintly trying to play? Well. Then. I guess I know who I don't care about anymore. I'd rather someone took a stand and played for professional pride so that they could leave with their held high having beaten Nestea and with a 1-3 record over a 0-4 He cares a great deal about winning - in a sense, that's all he cares about. That's why it's an intolerable situation to be placed in a match where winning won't get you anything. At least in WCGs, if you had oversized groups like that, the games weren't broadcast anyway so nobody cared if you didn't put your best effort into games after you realized you couldn't possibly get out of the group. | ||
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skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
Now MLG/Quantic/Lawyers have a chance to fight back and say, "he earned his spot, he has to be let play." Saying you changed the rules without telling anyone is not a good way to go about things at all. This could get veeeery veeeery interesting | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:28 Gobe wrote: TheAnd the reason this spot was taken from him, is because he didn't want to play an entirely inconsequential match. . Except that he never went to the staff and asked to forfeit said match. He said this himself just a few minutes ago while talking to SirScoots and JP. If he didn't want to play, he should have formally registered his desire not to. | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:27 synaptik wrote: so you agree that i called someone a kid because of his childish behavior, not because of his age. ok? capitalizing sentences or not shows nothing in regards to my respect for the board as long as my content is coherent and easy to understand. people can choose how they vote with their money, but what i am doing is calling them out: none of them will follow through with it. empty threats made in the heat of the moment This is a great day. This is the day I posted in the same thread as God. I mean otherwise, how come you have perfect knowledge of not only the present but also the future? + Show Spoiler + P.S could you PM me some lottery results? Please? | ||
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:30 _Depression wrote: Major League Baseball and similar organizations would like to say hi, and that they disagree with you. The end of the season for the MLB is a time when as many of 22 teams are playing with no chance of winning, or even affecting their final placement of the season. Teams like the Astros, Twins, Mariners and Orioles last year had more than a month's worth of games to play where absolutely nothing they did would mean anything (unless, of course, you count the Orioles playing the part of trollface to the Red Sox). But even though these teams were statistically eliminated from any shot of a playoff spot, they kept playing. Why? Because that's their job. Because if you don't show up and put in everything you've got, you're going to get called out on it. They play because it is their only time to practice in a real game situation, instead of doing all sorts of baseball drills and work outs with just the team it self. You are comparing apples to bananas bro. GOM does not pay naniwas salary. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote: Dear Teamliquid.net users, Time really flies - we have already reached the Semifinals of the Blizzard Cup. We wish to conclude a great year of StarCraft II with the Blizzard Cup and hope everyone was able to enjoy some of the great matches we've had so far. There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident. 1. GSL's stance toward the NaNiWa incident Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. A lot of people share the opinion that NaNiWa has not broken any rules and should therefore not receive any punishment. It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. We do however not doubt the sincerity of NaNiWa's competitive spirit. NaNiWa has come the long way to Korea just to compete in the GSL after all. We know very well how hard it is and the determination it takes to come to a foreign country and take the challenge to compete. We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL. 2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned? It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence. We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. Since we have not explained these changes to the seeds in detail yet, this misunderstanding seems to have arisen. In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments. In 2011 the GSL schedule luckily matched very well with MLG's schedule. For this reason we were able to introduce a system that allowed high-placing players at MLG to compete in the following GSL season in a regular manner. In 2012 we will again do our best to provide a schedule that matches well with MLG and other international leagues. As the GSL format has changed and a season now lasts for significantly longer, it will this time however not be possible to perfectly match our schedule with MLG's. Apart from that we would also like to consider players of other remarkable tournaments and have therefore introduced this change to our international seeding system. NaNiWa has been considered as one of the players to receive a Code S seed for the 2012 GSL Season 1 as a part of the this new seeding system due to his recent impressive results. Other players under consideration were IdrA (MLG Orlando 4th, IEM Guangzhou) and Sen (Blizzcon Battle.net Invitational 3rd) among others. During this phase of consideration aforementioned incident happened, which led us to the decision to remove NaNiWa from the top of the list of considered players. This is not to be seen as a direct punishment resulting from the incident , the incident did however understandably have an influence on NaNiWa's position on the list of candidates. What we would like to ask from all of the GSL fans is to not simply see this incident as just a simple meaningless single game between NaNiWa and NesTea. The act of purposefully losing a match, whatever the underlying reasons may be, does always also have a psychological effect on the other players. By tolerating such behavior, purposefully losing might be deemed as a legitimate action and we might see more of such matches in the future, which is something that surely neither the fans nor the players would appreciate. Both Korean as well as international fans are important to us. We hope that no one gets the wrong picture and believes that NaNiWa is being treated disadvantageously because he is a foreigner. On the contrary, if a Korean had been involved in a similar incident, it is possible that a much harsher reaction would have followed. It is also very likely that the player's team would have taken firm action before the GSL could have even reacted to it. The GSL is a tournament that is open for fans and players from all over the world. We are lucky to live in the internet era, which allows us to easily connect and share our passions. At the same time, we have to live with the time difference and can experience an interesting mix but sometimes also clash of cultures. We would be very happy to be able to always satisfy everyone, but unfortunately that is not realistically possible. We would like everyone to know that we tried to make a fair decision to the best of our ability in this unfortunate situation. We promise that we will work hard to provide tournament formats that will lead players to do their best in every match and to create a GSL that will allow fans to enjoy and experience the competition as something that has more to it than just professionals trying to make a living. We wish NaNiWa all the best for his future endeavors as a progamer. Thank you. GOMTV.net Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=212470&cid=0&kind=8 I think these are BS because of this + Show Spoiler + From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension Ultimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recap Over the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providence Naniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status. Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status. Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player. From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/ Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. To me the bottom line is this 1. As GomTV stated Naniwa Did not break any rules 2. GomTV has blatantly lied about the Code S seeding from MLG results 3. Has Naniwa ever committed any other transgressions against GomTV previously, for which he was warned? Why not a warning for this incident, and a required apology from him, since it was not covered in the rules? This is why grey areas are bad for competitions and rules MUST BE EXPLICIT 1. Are there any other strategies you deem to be punishable? (mothership rush, or PF rush perhaps?) 2. I can think of a few other strategies and in-game actions that are offensive to the opponent and his fans, but were never punished or even mentioned as potentially punishable. (manner scans,mules, or buildings, Dancing units) 3. If a player makes 12 drones with a double extractor trick,rushes, and looses, would they be punished like this? 4. Would the action be punishable if Naniwa won the game or is the probe rush only punishable if you loose? | ||
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chinese_paladin
China11 Posts
How mod u r? | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:30 Lorizean wrote: Oh I wasn't trying to shit on Naniwa with my post. I was just rebutting the view that Naniwa was taking some kind of stand to show the world how unjust the Blizzard cup group system is. I also agree that this was blown way out of proportion. And there is a difference between not having personality and not doing stupid stuff like this (again, I don't think he did it with the purpose of being disrespectful or anything, he just didn't think a whole lot - maybe he should just act a tad less impulsive). Well, they're wrong. He didn't really answer/say it on LO3 but I'm pretty sure it's assumed he did it because he didn't wanna play and had no point to prove other than he felt like shit. I also agree, this stuff shouldn't happen, but Naniwa's personality facilitated it happening in the perfect circumstance, to some extent. And although its not explicitly stated he has to change his personality, the way it all concluded was him having to apologize, but GOM basically stood firm to their overreaction, which sucks cause GOM has the power to do it otherwise Naniwa potentially sacrifices any pro career he has left. | ||
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:36 jax1492 wrote: I wanted to see Naniwa in code S but Mr. Chae makes a good point, esports needs to be held to standards like any other "sport" if he gets away with it, the GSL is put in a position where they would be setting a bad president. they could set a better precedent by being like "we don't like this so we're going to make a rule explicitly against it." that's what normally happens. | ||
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synaptik
Canada644 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:36 Vorenius wrote: This is a great day. This is the day I posted in the same thread as God. I mean otherwise, how come you have perfect knowledge of not only the present but also the future? + Show Spoiler + P.S could you PM me some lottery results? Please? you may subscribe to my newsletter | ||
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shizi
United States210 Posts
I wouldn't even have been surprised if they handed out a permaban | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:35 skipgamer wrote: This was bad PR GSL, you should have just come out and said "yes, we revoked Naniwa's code S status." Now MLG/Quantic/Lawyers have a chance to fight back and say, "he earned his spot, he has to be let play." This could get veeeery veeeery interesting Haven't bothered to check but is MLG/Quantic actually bringing legal action against Gom? Or is this just totally random/meaningless? | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:37 OrangeSoda wrote: They play because it is their only time to practice in a real game situation, instead of doing all sorts of baseball drills and work outs with just the team it self. You are comparing apples to bananas bro. GOM does not pay naniwas salary. The MLB doesn't pay the salaries of players, each team does. Just like Quantic and Naniwa. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:39 shizi wrote: Well handled... fully support these actions. I wouldn't even have been surprised if they handed out a permaban Now THAT would have been over the top. Denying him Code S, shunting him to Code A is as far as I think would be reasonable. If I read right, that's what they did, and Naniwa decided not to play in the January season. | ||
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