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On December 15 2011 08:01 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:54 SCST wrote:On December 15 2011 07:50 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 15 2011 07:41 SCST wrote:
Again I love how people in this thread are constantly whining about how GOM has "no right" to take away a Code S spot for Naniwa. WRONG. GOM owns the tournament, they pay for it and decide every aspect of their own tournament. They can change the rules, break them or whatever they want.
You on the other hand (person complaining about this), most likely sit on your butt and watch the games from a couch eating Cheetos. If you want to let Naniwa play in a tournament and act like a pre-teen, then create your own tournament. What you want is irrelevant. What Naniwa wants is irrelevant. GOM can do whatever they want, and if they don't want a disrespectful punk on their show then all the whining and Cheeto-throwing in the world isn't going to change that. Individuals thinking "waaa it's unfair" seriously need to grow up. There aren't enough consequences for jerks in this world, it should be applauded when someone or something finally grows the balls to enforce some repercussions. And that's the issue. You're giving ALL the power to GOM and taking any shred thats left from the players/fans. In your demented world, GOM calls every shot. Us fans are going to sit in our fucking chairs and pay for their service, or fuck off because we're irrelevant. If GOM wanted to ban a player because they didn't wear a GOM patch every where they went, even when outside of Korea, well then FUCK YOU gom owns the GSL they do what they want. (This is all examples of a corrupt organization and don't represent GOM) It's exactly this stupid line of thinking where someone is willing to take it up the ass because they were told to. You could bet your fucking ass if the players/fans were to take it upon themselves and completely stop watching/participating in GSL they'd change their stance right quick. And this is not even to bash GOM any more than I have, or to incite everyone to protest the GSL. It's bashing this hard right line of thinking where the power of leagues are absolute and the fans/players are expected to bow their heads, and never fight for their own benefit. GSL definitely doesn't hold all the cards, and can definitely be held responsible; not because it happened to Naniwa but because it could happen to anyone. Whoa, it's not ME who's "giving all the power to GOM" - what kid of logic is this? GOM has all the power because they OWN the tournamnet. What is it about "this is a business that pays for their own tournament" that people just don't get? You think fans should control a business? Or players? I'm laughing my ass off thinking about that. I can only imagine a tournament were the "largest ego" decides the rules of the tournament. In that case, Irda would be allowed to forfeit all Protoss matches on grounds of "imbalance", and Naniwa would be allowed to go around slapping the faces of event staff because he "felt like it". Time to come back to reality and the adult world. You're damn fucking right they do. If no one watched/played for GOMtv, they'd change their ways or go out of business. Welcome to the free market, theres too much content to watch and not enough time. People have to pick and choose, and they can certainly choose not to watch the GSL. While this is much too controversial and not quite as bad of a transgression as possible from gom to warrant, you don't think people would do it? Imagine if kespa ran the KSL and HuK accidentally typo'ed GG, and was DQ'ed. The entire foreign community would be in an uproar, and if kespa told them to deal with it, they'd lose every foreign fan/player immediately. Time to come back to reality and not pretend conservative land where we bend over backwards to corporate power. And im not even fucking suggesting any of this about GOM. The sad part is I have to make this case for people like you who want it to be that way so badly.
Equating what happened with Naniwa to "corporate power" is an absolute joke. I of all people am against corporate power and greed (see IPL charity event thread for proof).
The key point in your argument is: you're pissed and want to influence the way GOM does business by threatening to cancel viewership. This is a valid way to alter business in the free market. However, what you're not considering is that GOMtv knows that the viewership that will protest punishing a jerk-child like Naniwa is extremely small and mostly just foaming-at-the-mouth Naniwa fans.
They've deemed that it's worth it to maintain the integrity of their tournament and not let an ego-maniac like Naniwa treat them like shit. by punishing him. The vast majority of people, especially their primary audience (Koreans) agree with this punishment. You can disagree and flame GOM all you want, but it's not going to change anything.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On December 15 2011 08:09 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:05 labbe wrote:
This statement just makes GOMTV look even more bad than they did before if you ask me. Here they openly admit to Naniwa not breaking any rules, but then they go on and punish him any way because they basically did not agree with his actions.
And then they go on and rant about technicalities and how he "Technically was not invited", and that they "Just chose remove him from consideration for the seed". Disgraceful.
GOMTV messed up big time, they took this little incident and blew it up to insane proportions, and they can't even man up and apologize.
Naniwa was wrong, he apologized. GOMTV does not seem to be able to. He was not invited. He never won MLG providence. Read the dam Exchange program. Only the First place gets in code S. Top 3 foreigners gets placed in Code A. Naniwa was placed in code S due to the "new system" Gom set up: the 2 seed invite system. however due to his poor conduct, it was taken away. Naniwa never officially earned Code S.
DRG or MC never won an MLG
they got code S by placing top 3
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Isn't the GSL violating the term of the MLG-GSL partnership with their decision ? Naniwa should have been given a Code S seed based on his results. Trying to alter the rules after an incident is not very 'professional' ...
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On December 15 2011 08:09 illsick wrote:and something that is strange is also this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=293877Nani: "Even if I win Blizzard Cup nothing will change. I think prestige is important but in my opinion Code S is the most prestigious tournament in the world. So I want to continue challenge myself in Code S." What was the interviewer thinking after a response like that? No one in the GOM studio cared to correct him by saying that he wasn't in code S yet but that he was in the running for a spot with other foreigners? I think that GOM was lying, they had opportunities to claim otherwise about the code S spot in question when all different types of media announced that nani had earned it, including one of the two parties involved with the exchange program (MLG). I think it was easier for them to say people had the wrong impression that naniwa got a code S spot (I mean how code someone have the right impression when all sorts of media stated otherwise?) than to say he was kicked out of code S.
It's deffinetly something that doesn't seems right.
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Kind of vague on how the code S seeds are determined then. I'm not saying the MLG system was ideal but at least it was transparent, you know which games determined the seed which also boosted the appeal of MLG a lot.
I'm not against giving the code S seed to the best foreigner based on some ranking determined by several foreign tournaments (IEM, MLG, dreamhack, etc etc.) but it should at least be transparent.
Anyway they were completely in their right to do this so i'm fine with it. chapted closed and get on with it.
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Obviously GOMTV is changing their rules as they please, especially since there have been several nonsensical statements, from pure slurs to the pro-player not the person BS. I know GOMTV will not change their ruling, I have been in Japan enough to understand the honor system in business over east Asia. It's a reaction from hurt emotions which cannot be retracted because of the their honor system.
I feel offended.
I think MLG should feel offended, their partnership has not been honored.
NaNiWa did not do the right thing, but GOMTV's reaction is out of proportion.
I have never posted on any topic before as a complaining twat before now, and it's just my opinion, but this is pure BS.
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And this is sad because Naniwa gets the heat because he was put in an awkward position. It's like banning him for not getting interviews for the community after he was DQed. That game needed to be canceled the instant it became pointless. Grudge matches are not like ladder matches but on TV. Grudge matches have value in a competitive context. The context was gone.
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On December 15 2011 08:09 illsick wrote:and something that is strange is also this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=293877Nani: "Even if I win Blizzard Cup nothing will change. I think prestige is important but in my opinion Code S is the most prestigious tournament in the world. So I want to continue challenge myself in Code S." What was the interviewer thinking after a response like that? No one in the GOM studio cared to correct him by saying that he wasn't in code S yet but that he was in the running for a spot with other foreigners? I think that GOM was lying, they had opportunities to claim otherwise about the code S spot in question when all different types of media announced that nani had earned it, including one of the two parties involved with the exchange program (MLG). I think it was easier for them to say people had the wrong impression that naniwa got a code S spot (I mean how code someone have the right impression when all sorts of media stated otherwise?) than to say he was kicked out of code S.
Quote for the smoking gun, as if we needed one.
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I can't believe people are happy with this explanation, they're just further spouting lies about how the code s seed worked. EVERYONE in the foreign community was under the impression that Nani had earned a code s seed from his placement at Providence, not that he was being "considered" for an invite among with others.
This whole mess revolves around Gom being stubborn and not realizing that their format is shit. I'm definitely never staying up or buying tickets to watch GSL again.
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On December 15 2011 08:06 Packawana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:04 L3gendary wrote:On December 15 2011 08:02 Fjodorov wrote:
If the there was in fact no code s prize for MLG providence, but instead a spot in Blizzard cup, then Leenock was the one who earned won that prize. Yet GOMTV say Naniwa won earned the spot in blizzard cup from MLG providence... hmm lol this is a good point. The top 2 at Providence were to be sent to the Blizzard Cup, that was already stated. http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/news/66704Jesus, sometimes I wonder if people just read things on here and believe them immediately or if they actually look into it and decide to support their argument.
Sorry i didnt watch these games or knew that leenock was in the tournament. But there's no doubt that their rules also say he earns a code s spot as was posted numerous times.
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FUCK you GSL.. that is some fucking bullshit.
User was banned for this post.
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Gom makes GSL format too strange to follow. Just make it no invitees, no other tournament code spots plz. Let everyone go through brackets already. That's much more fair and simpler.
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On December 15 2011 08:03 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:57 DarkSider wrote:
Some said manner mules are offensive. Ok go ahead and write a perfect valid rule that should outlaw manner mules when you think you've won the game.
Think how to differentiate dropping mules with the intent of showing to your opponent it's over or dropping them with the intent of repairing your army. Dropping them as accident instead scanning - Is 1 mule an accident ok ? 2 mules ok ? 3 ? Where do you draw the line when it's clear he was intentionally spamming mules and wasn't a finger shake from the emotion ?
Maybe if you drop them close to your army can be seen as a genuine attempt to repair your army ? Ok so let's make it at most 2 inches further from your farther unit on a 19 inch monitor it's allowed to drop mules.
Oh hey but when i intended to drop the mule that hellion was still alive and my mule was in the rules. I was slow, the animation was slow and when my mule dropped the hellion was dead leaving my mule in offside !! But why would you ever have a rule stipulating something about what happens inside the game mechanics to begin with?
Because some said dropping mules it's offensive and should be a rule against it. Not everything that happens inside the game is allowed you know .. you need again common sense to know that you can't write DICK with pylons when playing in GSL. There is no explicit rule about it but i'm sure the player who'd do that would get a big kick in the ass.
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On December 15 2011 08:09 Starcraftmazter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:07 JoeSchmoe wrote:
i think you need to get your brain checked. This is exactly what I am talking about. Most people who are supporting GOM in this are little kids who resort to insults, and never stage any counter-arguments. How can you be expected to be taken seriously ?
How do you explain the SlayersCoca incident, where a Korean - contrary to your claims - was banned from Code S AND brutally punished by his team for throwing a game?
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I don't like how the way that Gom viewed their responsibility for the incident was a footnote with no apology to fans. I'm sure Naniwa didn't want to take responsibility, but he did it. They should have the courtesy to apologise for their format, even if it isn't sincere.
Anyway, it's nice that they clarified some things, specifically how they viewed the actions to be unprofessional. I was a little fuzzy on that, but their idea was pretty clear.
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On December 15 2011 08:06 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:03 Starcraftmazter wrote:
To me, it seems that GomTV is mostly only supported by fanboys who are somewhat immature at least, who are unable to see the various ethical issues surrounding this incident and double standards displayed by GomTV.
Throwing games is potentially a big problem, and it is never looked at or discussed. Then arbitrarily one person gets punished for doing it in a specific way, while the rest are not even touched. There is a lot of figure out here from the community and the tournament organisers, there is a lot which must be done to make things right in regards to this single issue.
But none of this is being done, GomTV are quite happy making a scapegoat out of Naniwa for what is a much broader issue in Starcraft 2 eSports.
This is a very big problem and it raises all sorts of ethical questions. The vast majority of people supporting GomTV are either not looking at this (which in my view is the main issue here), or simply cannot fathom it. You still have NOT provided ANY examples. What are the ethical issues here? Who else threw away games? Did someone 'gg' out in the first minute without trying? Did I magically miss some games? Don't be a drama queen.
Depends on what you call throwing a game. How about not showing up for a game at all?
Has happened in the mlg a ton. Earlier in the year, playing for champ points (6-7-8th place for example). Players couldnt be arsed and didnt show up. And those werent even completely pointless matches.
So everyone ever doing that, should get their head on the block?
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On December 15 2011 08:09 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:05 labbe wrote:
This statement just makes GOMTV look even more bad than they did before if you ask me. Here they openly admit to Naniwa not breaking any rules, but then they go on and punish him any way because they basically did not agree with his actions.
And then they go on and rant about technicalities and how he "Technically was not invited", and that they "Just chose remove him from consideration for the seed". Disgraceful.
GOMTV messed up big time, they took this little incident and blew it up to insane proportions, and they can't even man up and apologize.
Naniwa was wrong, he apologized. GOMTV does not seem to be able to. Nani did not get his code S spot from MLG exchange program.. He never won MLG providence. Read the dam Exchange program. Only the First place gets in code S. Top 3 foreigners gets placed in Code A. Naniwa was placed in code S due to the "new system" Gom set up: the 2 seed invite system. however due to his poor conduct, it was taken away. Naniwa never officially earned Code S.
Actually, great point. I missed this too before:
"Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player."
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The idea that people somehow think MLG is going to "rush to the defense of Naniwa" is hilarious. Naniwa called MLG a "joke tournament" and was even more disrespectful towards them than GOM. If anything Sundance is probably relishing this. Can't blame him at all.
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lol Slasher was so akward on his show. clearly afraid to say anything on the matter
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EPT
