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On December 15 2011 07:27 The Stapler wrote:
so just to put it simply:
Naniwa broke no rules
However, his actions did not match with GOMtv's interpretation of what makes a pro-gamer
GOM took away something that he never really had in the first place
got it lol
As Shibby would say to Mr. Chae, "GET REAL!" GOM's really stretching it this time.
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So many people misunderstanding here: notice 2 statements -
Players who does well in MLG will get code S spot
We are giving code S spots to players we think are good, such as players who do well in MLG
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On December 15 2011 07:21 NanaCry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:18 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 07:16 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 07:13 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:10 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:On December 15 2011 07:02 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:00 Derity wrote:
so why idra and sen?
why not stephano? did you even talk to him?
GomTv really failed to make clear that MLG Providence didn't give a Code S seed. I believe Stephano has made a point that he does not want to play in Korea (GSL) On December 15 2011 07:01 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
I have a question about the game NaNiWa played against Nestea.
Did he micro his probes or simply stop them by Nestea?
The reason that I ask this, is that if he tried to win with his probe rush, I fail to see the distinction between this and a discouraged player cheesing his way out of a tournament. He did not. He a-moved. At least Nestea went mineral drill to surround the probes. Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement. So my remaining question: Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact? There has never been, as far as I know, a GOMTV announcement that Naniwa gets Code S. Read Waxangels post My point is: GOMTV, after MLG Providence, has never announced Naniwa to get the Code S. But they did allrdy announce it get it? They didnt announce MMA or DRG got a spot when they won there code S in the MLG exchange program Hihi: Your Official AnnouncementPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. this says it all Naniwa won a code S spot. Acording to there own rules. So MLG Dallas 2025 will award a Code-S Spot too? Stop being blind, the partnership is over, or atleast in this form. GOM was about to explain it to us (as they said in this thread that you apparently didn't read). If you fail to read or refuse to believe them, it's your problem but that doesn't make your statement right.
MLG Dallas 2025 is not a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event, thus it will not award a code S spot, unless an agreement is made by that time that determines so.
MLG Providence 2011 on the other hand, is a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event and, according to an absolutaly clearly worded agreement between MLG and GSL/GOM, awards code S status to the highest placed non-code S player, unless none such exists in the top 3.
The partnership, as defined by the specific agreement is over, AFTER MLG Providence 2011. It includes (as very clearly stated in the announcements of both MLG and GOM) all 2011 Pro Circuit Live events subsequent to the starting date of the agreement.
Edited mistake in the last sentence.
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I dont know why people upset by gom decision, I think they handle the situation very well, I doubt it is a korean who did this he will be in serious trouble
You guys all underestimating the cultural different, Gom have to deal with Korean fans and players as well, and from what you see when Boxer kick CoCa out of A team and force him to withdraw from code S.
There will always be unwritten rules, Rooney get banned by FA countless time just by some bad behaviour such as middle finger in a television match.
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guys...
Naniwa was invited to Code S. Naniwa did not go through Code A or won through Up and Down matches.
he was one of candidate for Code S 2012 season 1. Due to his actions, he was taken of the lift of candidate. It is not like this is mid Season of Code S or anything. If Naniwa deserves to be in code S, he can go through the qualifier and show he has what it takes other than losing to Lucky two times in a row in first round.
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How can anyone not like how GOM handles stuff, after a statement like this?! 
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More than anything this incident highlights the lack of clear rules. As a professional league I just sort of expected a clear-cut rule would exist for such a situation.
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Thank you for the well worded statement. It is obvious that this was given alot of thought. Thanks for being so forthcomming with the explanation.
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On December 15 2011 07:34 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
I think it's an incredibly stupid, inappropriate move. You're trading an exciting code S season with Naniwa to punish silly misbehavior in an irrelevant game by somebody that's known to be silly, and all of that for irrational, highly subjective reasons.
Hard to call it an "exciting Code S season with NaNiwa" before it happens. For all we know, based on his stage experience in Korea, he would go 0-4 and duck out. And thus are the problems with foreigner seeds...
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Thanks for the information. I find it a bit irritating that someone loses his seed based on something that did not happen in relation to the tournament in question.
I would also like to have some more information on what this means in practice for GSL next year. Will GOM select players just on a whim? The nice thing this year was that both players and fans new how to qualify for GSL as a foreginer; which events that provided that opportunity. What I understand from this message is that GOM will select players based on their own critera that is not pre-defined or measurable. I think this is a step in the wrong direction and not professional at all. There as to be consitency in how player qualify for tournaments that are as prestigious as GSL. Otherwise it is just another invitational and not something that the players should fight for the same way they do today.
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It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match
I'm not even a Naniwa fan however I'm always a fan of fair play an extra chance and so on, he did not break any rules since your one rule that could cover it slightly was way to vague, I think you should have said "this was very unfortunate and we are all disappointed because of this incident so we are now placing a rule that stops this from ever happening again, with harsh punishment" however nothing should have happened to Naniwa after the rule is created though ban any person that breaks it forever since no one can get away with breaking a rule nor should they however this time their was a loop hole.
Not sure if I am the only one maybe I am but If I was Nestea I would have been worried about Naniwa since he was obviously upset/angry to do such a thing, I would have tried to get someone to talk to him a bit to make him feel better instead Nestea wastes his energy on an action for himself.. being annoyed/disrespected professionals are suppose to care for each other to before during and after a match.
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On December 15 2011 07:33 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:31 Rannasha wrote:On December 15 2011 07:27 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 07:21 Nexic wrote:
So bullshit that GOM doesn't admit to any fault of their own for making a bad format.
No explicit apology on their behalf is very ****ed up, much less respect for them going forward. Your definition of "bad format" is one in which fans get to see a huge grudge match between Nani and Nestea? It wouldn't have been exciting at all. Two players that have just lost 3 matches in a row and are eliminated from the tournament. Both players would be frustrated and neither cares much at that point and neither will give their best. Well GOM presumably put it at the end because they thought it would make it that much more important... not predicting they'd both go 0-3. What is GOM supposed to do? Cancel the match they scheduled cause one of the players refuses to try if he can't win it all?
Please tell me one single tournament format in any other sport with big money involved that has teams / players playing against each other when they're both knocked out, and not have any kind of prize pool.
This is retarded and it even contradicts the statement of naniwa not being professional, as being a professional means to make money out of what you do. It's the definition of the word. If Gom's too cheap to pay for pointless matches, then why even bother playing them from a player perspective?
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On December 15 2011 07:36 shire wrote:
guys...
Naniwa was invited to Code S. Naniwa did not go through Code A or won through Up and Down matches.
he was one of candidate for Code S 2012 season 1. Due to his actions, he was taken of the lift of candidate. It is not like this is mid Season of Code S or anything. If Naniwa deserves to be in code S, he can go through the qualifier and show he has what it takes other than losing to Lucky two times in a row in first round.
omg plz read the thread.
Hihi: Your Official Announcement
Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
look from there own site.
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On December 15 2011 07:35 staavros wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:21 NanaCry wrote:On December 15 2011 07:18 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 07:16 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 07:13 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:10 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:On December 15 2011 07:02 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 07:00 Derity wrote:
so why idra and sen?
why not stephano? did you even talk to him?
GomTv really failed to make clear that MLG Providence didn't give a Code S seed. I believe Stephano has made a point that he does not want to play in Korea (GSL) On December 15 2011 07:01 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
I have a question about the game NaNiWa played against Nestea.
Did he micro his probes or simply stop them by Nestea?
The reason that I ask this, is that if he tried to win with his probe rush, I fail to see the distinction between this and a discouraged player cheesing his way out of a tournament. He did not. He a-moved. At least Nestea went mineral drill to surround the probes. Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement. So my remaining question: Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact? There has never been, as far as I know, a GOMTV announcement that Naniwa gets Code S. Read Waxangels post My point is: GOMTV, after MLG Providence, has never announced Naniwa to get the Code S. But they did allrdy announce it get it? They didnt announce MMA or DRG got a spot when they won there code S in the MLG exchange program Hihi: Your Official AnnouncementPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. this says it all Naniwa won a code S spot. Acording to there own rules. So MLG Dallas 2025 will award a Code-S Spot too? Stop being blind, the partnership is over, or atleast in this form. GOM was about to explain it to us (as they said in this thread that you apparently didn't read). If you fail to read or refuse to believe them, it's your problem but that doesn't make your statement right. MLG Dallas 2025 is not a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event, thus it will not award a code S spot, unless an agreement is made by that time that determines so. MLG Providence 2011 on the other hand, is a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event and, according to an absolutaly clearly worded agreement between MLG and GSL/GOM, awards code S status to the highest placed non-code S player, unless none such exists in the top 3. The partnership, as defined by the specific agreement is over, AFTER MLG Providence 2011. It includes (as very clearly stated in the announcements of both MLG and GOM) all 2011 Pro Circuit Live events subsequent to the starting date of the agreement. Edited mistake in the last sentence.
Unless the partnership changes. Which happened.
Read the OP.
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I still would love to know why GOM never corrected anyone saying that Nani had a code S spot. It was posted on MLG and here several times (which they must check seeing as how they post here and they had an agreement with the other organization). You think they would have stepped in and corrected everyone letting them know they were wrong...
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On December 15 2011 07:36 ForgottenOne wrote:How can anyone not like how GOM handles stuff, after a statement like this?!
Because they are contradicting themselves?
"At EVERY 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status."
Source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291
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On December 15 2011 07:34 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:28 MiXyass wrote:
Anybody that says KESPA would've handled this situation better has no idea what they are talking about
KESPA was not only strict about what happened on their own tournaments but they were strict on what happened outside of tournaments so that the players can display the best games possible on television
If this happened under KESPA naniwa would be 100% banned forever in any korean tournament
KESPA would not punish someone for not breaking a rule. KESPA was hard on players but not close to as subjective as GomTV. Its like Singapore vs Pakistan.
Yeah KeSPA never banned players for throwing games away.... Ohhh wait saviOr..... HMMMMM....
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On December 15 2011 07:33 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:31 Rannasha wrote:On December 15 2011 07:27 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 07:21 Nexic wrote:
So bullshit that GOM doesn't admit to any fault of their own for making a bad format.
No explicit apology on their behalf is very ****ed up, much less respect for them going forward. Your definition of "bad format" is one in which fans get to see a huge grudge match between Nani and Nestea? It wouldn't have been exciting at all. Two players that have just lost 3 matches in a row and are eliminated from the tournament. Both players would be frustrated and neither cares much at that point and neither will give their best. Well GOM presumably put it at the end because they thought it would make it that much more important... not predicting they'd both go 0-3. What is GOM supposed to do? Cancel the match they scheduled cause one of the players refuses to try if he can't win it all?
Several options
- Setup a format where every match matters (the GSL group stages have this worked out just fine). Easiest way is by adding a bit of prize money to second-to-last spot.
- Schedule the group in such a way that the most anticpated matches are not at the end. True, all players in the groups are very high level, but I'm sure GOM could've worked out that some matches were more anticipated than others.
- Simply don't play the matches that have no influence on the remainder of the tournament. They do this with the up&down matches. Those players that don't have to play also have fans that would like to see games by them. Surely less than Nestea or Naniwa, but the situation is no different, just on another scale.
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On December 15 2011 07:13 staavros wrote:
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
MLG Providence was a 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition.
Pro Circuit Live Competitions grant Code S status. NOT invites to any particular tournament, be it Blizzard cup or anything else.
I expect either GOM or MLG, preferrably the latter, to explain to me and many others of the same opinion what of the above is wrong. For me that concludes the discussion about GOM simply deciding to NOT OFFER naniwa code S, versus TAKING IT AWAY from him.
On a side note, just an observation: Naniwa's code S status was announced by virtually EVERY party involved in starcraft 2 those previous weeks. Shouldn't GOM clarify that this is not true?
I am sorry, but no matter how much I try to rationalize it driven by my love for starcraft, it still seems absolutely clear that the rules changed overnight. I will still, with great hope, anticipate a statement that sets things straight.
Thank you! This proves that GomTV is directly lying. Now they owe us an apology, and they owe MLG an apology.
However, it doesn't mean that the punishment is inappropriate. GomTV, just stick with your judgements, if they are Just they will stand.
Don't make up fake excuses and deny punishing a player. Now we can't trust you, GomTV. You are a business, not a cause. There are plenty of opposition tournaments that participate in the business of competitive eSports.
Your own judgement against NaNiWa is that he acted unprofessionally, and is not trustworthy to give competition to his opponents, nor quality entertainment to your viewers. Your own judgement is turned back upon you. It is not professional business practice to lie to your customers. You are no longer trustworthy.
If it is the cause of eSports that we are worried about, then we should support the trustworthy businesses.
I certainly am not giving my credit card information to a company that blatantly lies.
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EPT
