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GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
2400 CommentsPost a Reply
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Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#421
Thanks alot for this statement its clear to me now
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
debasers
Profile Joined August 2010
737 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#422
I'll come here and say also that Naniwa can pursue legal action to this punishment, as he was granted to the Code S spot, which has a good prize pool even if you lose first round.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#423
Thanks for clearing everything up GOMTV.

It was unfair the way people were making assumptions about the whole situation because of wrong translations. So many people were making accusations left and right based off of false information. Also people need to understand the bigger picture as well as different values of other cultures. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but bashing players, GOM or the korean community is so misplaced.

GSL is still the top tournament in terms of professionalism, production and quality.

torg
Profile Joined April 2011
Norway47 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#424
So Dear Gom smartasses;

You remove a player that threw a game, and replace him with a player that throws every placementmatch in mlg?
you are kind of going against everything you said concerning naniwa and sportmansship with this, proving you just go against a player. thats called discrimination.
you cant even write a set of rules any englishspeaking person can understand.

User was temp banned for this post.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#425
I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior...
...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up!
This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here
Get off my lawn, young punks
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#426
On December 15 2011 07:38 NanaCry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:35 staavros wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:21 NanaCry wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:18 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:16 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:10 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:02 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:00 Derity wrote:
so why idra and sen?
why not stephano? did you even talk to him?

GomTv really failed to make clear that MLG Providence didn't give a Code S seed.


I believe Stephano has made a point that he does not want to play in Korea (GSL)

On December 15 2011 07:01 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
I have a question about the game NaNiWa played against Nestea.


Did he micro his probes or simply stop them by Nestea?


The reason that I ask this, is that if he tried to win with his probe rush, I fail to see the distinction between this and a discouraged player cheesing his way out of a tournament.


He did not. He a-moved. At least Nestea went mineral drill to surround the probes.



Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement.

So my remaining question:

Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact?


There has never been, as far as I know, a GOMTV announcement that Naniwa gets Code S.


Read Waxangels post


My point is: GOMTV, after MLG Providence, has never announced Naniwa to get the Code S.


But they did allrdy announce it get it?

They didnt announce MMA or DRG got a spot when they won there code S in the MLG exchange program

Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

this says it all Naniwa won a code S spot. Acording to there own rules.


So MLG Dallas 2025 will award a Code-S Spot too? Stop being blind, the partnership is over, or atleast in this form. GOM was about to explain it to us (as they said in this thread that you apparently didn't read).
If you fail to read or refuse to believe them, it's your problem but that doesn't make your statement right.


MLG Dallas 2025 is not a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event, thus it will not award a code S spot, unless an agreement is made by that time that determines so.

MLG Providence 2011 on the other hand, is a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event and, according to an absolutaly clearly worded agreement between MLG and GSL/GOM, awards code S status to the highest placed non-code S player, unless none such exists in the top 3.

The partnership, as defined by the specific agreement is over, AFTER MLG Providence 2011. It includes (as very clearly stated in the announcements of both MLG and GOM) all 2011 Pro Circuit Live events subsequent to the starting date of the agreement.

Edited mistake in the last sentence.


Unless the partnership changes. Which happened.
Read the OP.

yeh ti changed when they suited them. They paid for 4 koreans to come to prov... and as they released afterwards and thir commentators stated in the tournament they all thought Nani had got a code s spot...
Live and Let Die!
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#427
On December 15 2011 07:41 NanaCry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:39 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 staavros wrote:
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


MLG Providence was a 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition.

Pro Circuit Live Competitions grant Code S status. NOT invites to any particular tournament, be it Blizzard cup or anything else.

I expect either GOM or MLG, preferrably the latter, to explain to me and many others of the same opinion what of the above is wrong. For me that concludes the discussion about GOM simply deciding to NOT OFFER naniwa code S, versus TAKING IT AWAY from him.

On a side note, just an observation: Naniwa's code S status was announced by virtually EVERY party involved in starcraft 2 those previous weeks. Shouldn't GOM clarify that this is not true?

I am sorry, but no matter how much I try to rationalize it driven by my love for starcraft, it still seems absolutely clear that the rules changed overnight. I will still, with great hope, anticipate a statement that sets things straight.



Thank you! This proves that GomTV is directly lying. Now they owe us an apology, and they owe MLG an apology.

However, it doesn't mean that the punishment is inappropriate. GomTV, just stick with your judgements, if they are Just they will stand.

Don't make up fake excuses and deny punishing a player. Now we can't trust you, GomTV. You are a business, not a cause. There are plenty of opposition tournaments that participate in the business of competitive eSports.

Your own judgement against NaNiWa is that he acted unprofessionally, and is not trustworthy to give competition to his opponents, nor quality entertainment to your viewers. Your own judgement is turned back upon you. It is not professional business practice to lie to your customers. You are no longer trustworthy.

If it is the cause of eSports that we are worried about, then we should support the trustworthy businesses.
I certainly am not giving my credit card information to a company that blatantly lies.

GomTV isn't lying, partnership changed, read the OP.
Naniwa wasn't punished, he just wasn't chose for the spot, read the OP.
You're welcome.

You cant change partnership AFTER the event? that like changing prize money for the event AFTER someone has won the money LOL.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#428
On December 15 2011 07:42 debasers wrote:
I'll come here and say also that Naniwa can pursue legal action to this punishment, as he was granted to the Code S spot, which has a good prize pool even if you lose first round.


If you actually took the time to read...you would know he wasn`t a lock for Code S spot. He was under consideration and practically a lock until he messed it up.
ElephantBaby
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1365 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#429
Gom, stick to your guns. You did the right thing.
dacimvrl
Profile Joined December 2011
Vatican City State582 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#430
On December 15 2011 07:22 Giriath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:18 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:16 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:10 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:02 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:00 Derity wrote:
so why idra and sen?
why not stephano? did you even talk to him?

GomTv really failed to make clear that MLG Providence didn't give a Code S seed.


I believe Stephano has made a point that he does not want to play in Korea (GSL)

On December 15 2011 07:01 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
I have a question about the game NaNiWa played against Nestea.


Did he micro his probes or simply stop them by Nestea?


The reason that I ask this, is that if he tried to win with his probe rush, I fail to see the distinction between this and a discouraged player cheesing his way out of a tournament.


He did not. He a-moved. At least Nestea went mineral drill to surround the probes.



Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement.

So my remaining question:

Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact?


There has never been, as far as I know, a GOMTV announcement that Naniwa gets Code S.


Read Waxangels post


My point is: GOMTV, after MLG Providence, has never announced Naniwa to get the Code S.


But they did allrdy announce it get it?

They didnt announce MMA or DRG got a spot when they won there code S in the MLG exchange program

Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

this says it all Naniwa won a code S spot. Acording to there own rules.


Oh but no, Mr. Chae is the boss of SC2 esports and can do whatever he wishes, in his own mind. Be that changing his rules, not putting them on contracts or telling anyone and still having them in effect, and using them arbitrarily instead of consistently.


Sad, childish, but all too true..

Sigh..
HappyChris
Profile Joined October 2011
1534 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#431
On December 15 2011 07:41 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:37 zeru wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:36 shire wrote:
guys...

Naniwa was invited to Code S. Naniwa did not go through Code A or won through Up and Down matches.

he was one of candidate for Code S 2012 season 1. Due to his actions, he was taken of the lift of candidate. It is not like this is mid Season of Code S or anything. If Naniwa deserves to be in code S, he can go through the qualifier and show he has what it takes other than losing to Lucky two times in a row in first round.

wrong. as stated many times in this thread, he won a code S spot at providence.



Wrong. As stated many times in this and other threads, he did not win a code S spot at providence because providence did not give out a code S spot.


Omg from GomTV own site

Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

How hard is it to read
TMOUllrich
Profile Joined February 2011
England59 Posts
December 14 2011 22:43 GMT
#432
Damn this has turned into politics ! I especially liked the bit where you justified your actions by adapting the rules to justify your own actions, turning into a real goverment now, gratz.

GOMTV is cool and all but that was possibly the worst reasoned statement I've ever read in my entire life !
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#433
On December 15 2011 07:42 debasers wrote:
I'll come here and say also that Naniwa can pursue legal action to this punishment, as he was granted to the Code S spot, which has a good prize pool even if you lose first round.


he was given blizzard cup spot and was being considered for code s spot.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:44:34
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#434
People don't understand the difference between "not trying for a game that doesn't matter" and "not trying for a game that doesn't matter in I-don't-give-a-fuck-about-your-organization-and-fans kinda way". Yes, there is a difference between if he 4 gated and if he probe pulled, and from his apology it looks like he knows that now, which is good.

For anyone who wants Kespa to take over, you are so fucking ignorant it's scary.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#435
On December 15 2011 07:41 SCST wrote:
Again I love how people in this thread are constantly whining about how GOM has "no right" to take away a Code S spot for Naniwa. WRONG. GOM owns the tournament, they pay for it and decide every aspect of their own tournament. They can change the rules, break them or whatever they want.

You on the other hand (person complaining about this), most likely sit on your butt and watch the games from a couch eating Cheetos. What you want is irrelevant. What Naniwa wants is irrelevant. GOM can do whatever they want, and if they don't want a disrespectful punk on their show then all the whining and Cheeto-throwing in the world isn't going to change that. Individuals thinking "waaa it's unfair" seriously need to grow up. There aren't enough consequences for jerks in this world, it should be applauded when someone or something finally grows the balls to enforce some.

This exactly.
I love crazymoving
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#436
On December 15 2011 07:41 Warlock40 wrote:
Show nested quote +
We hope that no one gets the wrong picture and believes that NaNiWa is being treated disadvantageously because he is a foreigner. On the contrary, if a Korean had been involved in a similar incident, it is possible that a much harsher reaction would have followed. It is also very likely that the player's team would have taken firm action before the GSL could have even reacted to it.


Absolutely. Coca is a fine example of this. GOM did the right thing.


CoCa wasn't playing a pointless inconsequential showmatch that meant absolutely nothing. Naniwa wasn't fixing a match to help a teammate advance. You're basically accusing Naniwa of match fixing. This is a terrible comparison.
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#437
On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:
I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior...
...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up!
This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here


Sundance knew there were no seeds up for grabs, explain no foreigners seeded into up-and-downs this season.
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:46:53
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#438
On December 15 2011 07:31 jpark4g wrote:
u guys are so retarded. gom HAD to take action for this reason.
Show nested quote +
By tolerating such behavior, purposefully losing might be deemed as a legitimate action and we might see more of such matches in the future, which is something that surely neither the fans nor the players would appreciate.

if u guys dont see it, you guys must be dumb. dont let the door hit u on ur way out of gom. they got plenty of other viewers and dont need retards like u guys watching their programs anyways.

The way you write it's obvious who the "retard" is.

I've highlighted tolerating because few are suggesting they tolerate it, merely that the punishment far exceeds the crime. They could have, for instance, made him instantly rematch or taken away his future GSL prize money etc...

Also who says we won't watch GOM? I'm still going to watch GOM; I just don't like people being basically bullied. When you're in the position of all the power (as GOM are) you should use restraint and good judgement. Just because you CAN do something doesn't make it right.
Who really gains from this situation? GOM could have achieved the same message without completely crushing Naniwa.

On December 15 2011 07:41 SCST wrote:
Again I love how people in this thread are constantly whining about how GOM has "no right" to take away a Code S spot for Naniwa. WRONG. GOM owns the tournament, they pay for it and decide every aspect of their own tournament. They can change the rules, break them or whatever they want.

So just because you can do something it makes it right?
Next time I see a kid call someone a name I'll go and knock him out shall I?
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#439
On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:
I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior...
...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up!
This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here

This is the part that is very unclear to me. MLG put out a press release stating Naniwa obtained a Code S spot from providence. Would really like to hear from GOM or MLG about that.
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
December 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#440
So GOM is not even admitting any fault here? This is sad, they do this major fuck up that causes more drama than I have ever seen before on TL, and they don't even take any of the blame for it? This statement was just full of empty words. Not good enough GOM.
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