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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:34 TyrionSC2 wrote: Well according to the casters he did. It wasn't showed on camera so I can't say for definite. Yes they did show it on the Korean stream. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
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KoRStarvid
Sweden767 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote: You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:10 Tarschi wrote: You might say "he should have done it for the fans". From his point of view he didn't let us down. He wouldn't have given a better game if he played it out. He still wouldn't care, that wouldn't change. He would give us a game that would be as bad as the one he gave us.So insteed of wasting our and his opponent time with a pointless game he threw it away. There was no need for him to play it out, so he didn't. I call BS on this. I'll repeat it just to make clear how ridiculous your claim is: He wouldn't have given a better game if he played it out. You think Naniwa on tilt is not capable of giving a better game than a-moving probes? Seriously? If you think Naniwa is that bad, I wonder how you explain him getting this far. Any attempt to play a game would have been a much better game for viewers than this. It is clear that he was on tilt, and he would not play his A-game simply because he could not, he was not in the mental state for it. But neither was Nestea. He also deprived Nestea of a chance to redeem himself somewhat after going 0-3. He deprived his sponsors of a lot of goodwill for picking up Naniwa from CoL. He clearly didn't earn Quantic a lot of sympathy in the Korean community. All of this matters; Starcraft 2 as an esport is a spectator sport. If this were an uncasted game in some weekly tournament, then it would not matter much. This was on stage, against Nestea, at a high-profile event. It does matter. The rest of your post is internally inconsistent. You claim it doesn't matter; if it didn't matter, people wouldn't be so vocal about it, would they? If you ask viewers to pay money to watch, the content you're offering them does matter to them. Hell, this website is about esports, how could you say people losing respect for a player does not matter? If it doesn't matter, what is the point of having a community, having fan clubs, following player careers? Saying that you lost respect for him, fine that's your opinon. But saying he's making a bad example for the community, get real. It's the fans who make the community. If many fans lose respect for him, and it's fans who make the community, how can you honestly say that this does not matter? | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:43 KristianJS wrote: Did GOM make an announcement yet? Announcement about what? That was his gameplan, he didn't break any rule. How could they punish him??? | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:45 tuho12345 wrote: Announcement about what? That was his gameplan, he didn't break any rule. How could they punish him??? they were actually apparently thinking of punishing him actually at least from what Wolf's twitter said iirc? -_- so yes they can | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote: Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:43 tuho12345 wrote: Yes they did show it on the Korean stream. Hahaha, that's hilarious. I wonder if he'd 4-gated, a-moved his units, took his hands off his keyboard, and didn't warp in additional units -- I wonder then if the shitstorm would be a little smaller. Probably. Lol. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote: Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. What? From the transfer announcement a few days ago: Mark Ferraz, Founder and CEO of Quantic Gaming, provided the following statement regarding the acquisition, “We’ve made a commitment to invest in StarCraft 2, in order to deliver the most memorable and engaging experiences for both fans and partners. Acquiring NaNiWa aligns with our revised approach nicely. We expect our ‘Power-Protoss-Duo’ to deliver at the highest and most entertaining level. I warmly welcome Johan to the team.” (Emphasis mine) Edit: Removed snarky reply that I mistakenly attributed to KoRStarvid (instead of rysecake) | ||
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote: Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. GOM pays appearance fees for everyone. He was getting money for playing; obviously nothing on the line, but he's still getting paid and GOM expected him to put on an entertaining game. 4gate is still more entertaining than a-moving probes. | ||
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KoRStarvid
Sweden767 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote: guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. | ||
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CEO
Sweden16 Posts
On December 14 2011 05:51 Swede wrote: Not what I was referring to. The person I was replying to sounded as if he was saying that games that aren't in a tournament setting aren't exciting for the viewer. Well, that person you were referring to was me. Yeah, I've seen plenty of exciting ladder/custom games. But Naniwa didn't want to play this particular game. And I'm pretty sure that most of those exciting ladder/custom games were all played by people who were playing to win. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:50 schmitty9800 wrote: GOM pays appearance fees for everyone. He was getting money for playing; obviously nothing on the line, but he's still getting paid and GOM expected him to put on an entertaining game. 4gate is still more entertaining than a-moving probes. His team also expects him to put on an entertaining game, as do his fans. Not only GOM, also his team (by virtue of him having many fans, and this affecting the kind of sponsorship deals they get) have a direct say on his future compensation. 4gate means at least you tried something. It's clear Naniwa was not in the best mood for delivering great games, but not even making the effort of playing a decent or entertaining game says a lot either about your mental fortitude or about how much you care about pleasing your fans/team even if you can't make a buck right away. And about how much you respect your opponent: Nestea took the game at least somewhat seriously, and depriving him of the chance to show that to his fans is also disrespectful. Yeah, a 4gate is clearly not the most entertaining game, but if you don't care, at least you give your opponent a venue for showing that he still does care. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Naniwa HWAITING! | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:55 CEO wrote: Well, that person you were referring to was me. Yeah, I've seen plenty of exciting ladder/custom games. But Naniwa didn't want to play this particular game. And I'm pretty sure that most of those exciting ladder/custom games were all played by people who were playing to win. Yes, and the problem is precisely that Naniwa didn't even try to win, just because he personally didn't see any financial impetus to. All your ladder/custom game players were not playing for prize money either, they weren't being casted by professionals, they weren't being watched by people who paid for it, and they still tried to win, and still managed to entertain/excite, even if they were nowhere as good as Naniwa would be on tilt. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:57 wei2coolman wrote: Fuck it. I'll be the epic naniwa supporter. Who other progamer would have the NERVES to 7 probe rush Nestea? No one. not a single fucking person on this godforsaken piece of shit earth, EXCEPT naniwa. Just imagine the amount of pure cajones it takes to do something like that. Naniwa was staring down the barrel of one of the greatest zerg player in the world, and all he did was spit in his face. Seriously, who else would've done something so ballsy? Damn it Naniwa, you're the best! Naniwa HWAITING! except the rush didn't work at all? :S | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote: And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:57 wei2coolman wrote: Fuck it. I'll be the epic naniwa supporter. Who other progamer would have the NERVES to 7 probe rush Nestea? No one. not a single fucking person on this godforsaken piece of shit earth, EXCEPT naniwa. Just imagine the amount of pure cajones it takes to do something like that. Naniwa was staring down the barrel of one of the greatest zerg player in the world, and all he did was spit in his face. Seriously, who else would've done something so ballsy? Damn it Naniwa, you're the best! Naniwa HWAITING! Once again, I could agree with this, if he microed. You hype it up as if he tried really hard and did some amazing act of courage. Is it courageous to say fuck it I'm probe rushing and taking my hands off the keyboard? That's being a coward giving up saying it doesn't matter so I'll just waste everybody's time and bring them down with me. What a hero. | ||
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dcsoda
United States583 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:57 wei2coolman wrote: Fuck it. I'll be the epic naniwa supporter. Who other progamer would have the NERVES to 7 probe rush Nestea? No one. not a single fucking person on this godforsaken piece of shit earth, EXCEPT naniwa. Just imagine the amount of pure cajones it takes to do something like that. Naniwa was staring down the barrel of one of the greatest zerg player in the world, and all he did was spit in his face. Seriously, who else would've done something so ballsy? Damn it Naniwa, you're the best! Naniwa HWAITING! I'll be the opposite. It doesn't take nerves to not try. If Naniwa was actually trying to win with that strategy then it would've taken nerves. Naniwa sidestepped the challenge and took the cowards way out. | ||
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