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On December 14 2011 00:38 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:36 The KY wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 DBHErazor wrote:
Naniwa is a boss, tellin it like it is to this pompous arselicking community. Get a grip, it´s just 1 pointless game. Who gives a f*ck? coca vs byun was 1 pointless game. many people gave many fucks. why should naniwa be any different? Coca vs Byun wasn't pointless though. Coca dropped the game on purpose to get Byun a Code A spot. Totally different. No Code A spot on the line (as confirmed by Mr. Chae in the thread for that incident) and he dropped the game cause he wanted more practice. What's the difference?
I heard letting Byun win the game would allow Byun to fight for a code A spot. Not technically straight up obtain it, but it would sitll allow him to advance in a tournament that had meaning.
Not the same thing here.
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On December 14 2011 00:39 FidoDido wrote:
keep in mind, player who are invited
He wasn't just invited, he earned his spot...
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On December 14 2011 00:36 Ivanov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:20 CakeSauc3 wrote:
I think it's terribly funny how people mess up the meaning of the term "professional gamer" or "professional athlete". You're a "pro" because you make money doing that - not because of how you act.
Naniwa is certainly a pro-gamer. He still has sponsors, he still gets paid to play, and that's not gonna change with this.
If anything, people like me think he's even cooler now than he was before - because he did something flashy and different, he showed his emotions through his actions, and proved that he's human. He's gained me as a fan now. Props to him :D people just like to make drama out little things like this, but really I thought it was just funny what he did and it was a stylish way for him to go out of a meaningless game. I think it is terribly funny how you mess up the meaning of term "professional gamer" or "professional athelete". Professional athelete is a professional who professes in athletics. Professional gamer is a professional who professes in gaming. OR Professional actor is a professional who professes in acting. The list can go on. What I am trying to point out to you is, the concept of being professional doesn't change, if the second word that comes after professional is different. It's the word professional that defines what things are. AND it CERTAINLY defines how you act in that regard... If a gaming community wants "games/gaming" to be taken seriously by entire world, their professionals should take it seriously first... even an unnecesssary match. And because of this desire to be taken seriously, the community and players should be extra ethical and respectful, until your family or your friends who are making fun of you for playing game and do what you love, acknowledges your activity as a respectful activity. Players should avoid these behavior more until gaming is established and well-respected by ordinary joe. MC's quote is an awesome, White-Ra's type professionalism is the type that gaming community and professionalism needs.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
taken from dictionary.com
Professional
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
notice the word following professional? It does not mention how the builder acts, but what the builder does, he builds for money. much like a professional gamer games for money.
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people act like he's getting too much hate for no reason and he is also. clearly though there is a reason and he should quit all this childish bullshit. grow the fuck up man
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I can understand him. I can't understand GOM's decision to play out the match. I knew that the koreans won't be happy about it though, as soon as I saw him doing that. He's totally right, if he would've 4gated and Nestea would've hold that easily, noone would say a word, but it would've only been a waste of another 5minutes.
He's the kind of person that reacts emotionally. In korea they don't show their emotions that much, so they have no understanding for an emotional reaction like this. But they just should cool down, and not making a big deal of every little thing that happens.
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On December 14 2011 00:04 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:03 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 00:00 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:59 grobo wrote:
People are just hating because it's me who did it.
That's the truth right there.
SC2 community is easily the most biased community i have ever been a part of. Yeah, just like a rapist who got out of jail decides to go rape again gets a more severe punishment than a first time offender. Such an unfair system! Lol, another thing I love about SC2... You'll never actually see a good comparison between situations, it's always compared to mass murder, rape, and other outlandish things. Not true. Just the ones that bother us and stand out are these disgusting attempts at making everything seem worse than it is. There's a blog comparing the meaningless games between two 0-3 players and baseball that does it very well.
Ok, I'll give you that. It's just that those good comparisons are so few and so far in between, that it's hard to remember them.
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On December 14 2011 00:38 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:36 The KY wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 DBHErazor wrote:
Naniwa is a boss, tellin it like it is to this pompous arselicking community. Get a grip, it´s just 1 pointless game. Who gives a f*ck? coca vs byun was 1 pointless game. many people gave many fucks. why should naniwa be any different? Coca vs Byun wasn't pointless though. Coca dropped the game on purpose to get Byun a Code A spot. Totally different. No Code A spot on the line (as confirmed by Mr. Chae in the thread for that incident) and he dropped the game cause he wanted more practice. What's the difference?
I'm pretty sure it was for seeding or something. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have kicked Coca out of Code S for skipping a game that actually meant nothing.
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On December 14 2011 00:40 IMPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:38 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:36 The KY wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 DBHErazor wrote:
Naniwa is a boss, tellin it like it is to this pompous arselicking community. Get a grip, it´s just 1 pointless game. Who gives a f*ck? coca vs byun was 1 pointless game. many people gave many fucks. why should naniwa be any different? Coca vs Byun wasn't pointless though. Coca dropped the game on purpose to get Byun a Code A spot. Totally different. No Code A spot on the line (as confirmed by Mr. Chae in the thread for that incident) and he dropped the game cause he wanted more practice. What's the difference? I heard letting Byun win the game would allow Byun to fight for a code A spot. Not technically straight up obtain it, but it would sitll allow him to advance in a tournament that had meaning. Not the same thing here.
Mr. Chae said there was no deal in place for a Code A spot. There might be one now but at the time of the event there was literally no GSL spot to win.
On December 14 2011 00:42 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:38 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:36 The KY wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 DBHErazor wrote:
Naniwa is a boss, tellin it like it is to this pompous arselicking community. Get a grip, it´s just 1 pointless game. Who gives a f*ck? coca vs byun was 1 pointless game. many people gave many fucks. why should naniwa be any different? Coca vs Byun wasn't pointless though. Coca dropped the game on purpose to get Byun a Code A spot. Totally different. No Code A spot on the line (as confirmed by Mr. Chae in the thread for that incident) and he dropped the game cause he wanted more practice. What's the difference? I'm pretty sure it was for seeding or something. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have kicked Coca out of Code S for skipping a game that actually meant nothing.
SlayerS pulled him from the A-team and GSL, GOM did nothing.
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When people say professional gamer, most often than not, it generally means there is a particular standard that one must meet in terms of attitude(not just aptitude) towards your game, community and opponent.
What naniwa did is pretty much a 'this game means shit to me, fuck it' stunt on the competition. Pulling that crap is ok at a lower level tourney or a muck around game between friends. It's true he doesn't need to meet the whims of every audience member/coach/organiser, but not showing the appropriate respect like that at a professional tournament with decent coverage and against the best professional gamers in the world is not good enough. Fair enough there is no direct tangible gain from winning that last game, but what about upholding the respect of your reputation/team/viewers/tournament organisers and even your opponent.
I think that if you happen to be a professional in any sports or career, there is a particular code of conduct that should be met. As e-sports gets bigger and bigger and garner a larger audience, I believe this issue will become more apparent.
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I have a question. User TeamLiquid Esports will be the official user for esports related posts from TL now?
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On December 14 2011 00:28 Jakkerr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:26 MandoRelease wrote:
Even if there's nothing at stake, it's still a broadcasted game and his fans are going to watch it. Saying his fans would not be pleased if he tried half hearted is plain stupid, i'm pretty sure most people turn on the gomtv player to see good game between good players, regardless of the stakes.
You're frustrated because you lost ? That's fine, I would be too. But I don't say "screw it" when I still have things to do. Naniwa just wants to do the things that benefits himself, not thinking for a second of the viewers, the fans, the tourney and so on. No wonder so many people are calling him unprofessional.
And how sad is that some people blame the system and not naniwa. The system is what it is, you don't enter it thinking you're not going to apply by the rules set by it. It was not up to naniwa to say "hey the system is stupid and this game doesn't matter, so i'm not going to play it". At least try something that have some chances of success.
And who cares if it was done before at DH, it's still bad.
I guess u must be new or something. Naniwa has said numerous times that he plays to win. If there's nothing to win he doesn't play. I can still remember him leaving a showmatch with morrow because there was no prizemoney involved. Whether you like it or not, he plays the game for himself, not for his fans or w/e. You can flame him for it but he couldn't care less.
I'm not that new^^.
I'm precisely saying that this attitude of his is stupid. Does he think he can play competitively without the support of organizations (like GomTV) and people ? I really don't mind all the hate towards him, as far as i'm concerned, he deserves it. He has a bad attitude and won't change it, whatever you fanboys may think.
He's not the only one, of course, but this topic is about him.
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On December 14 2011 00:42 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:40 IMPrime wrote:On December 14 2011 00:38 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:36 The KY wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:On December 14 2011 00:33 DBHErazor wrote:
Naniwa is a boss, tellin it like it is to this pompous arselicking community. Get a grip, it´s just 1 pointless game. Who gives a f*ck? coca vs byun was 1 pointless game. many people gave many fucks. why should naniwa be any different? Coca vs Byun wasn't pointless though. Coca dropped the game on purpose to get Byun a Code A spot. Totally different. No Code A spot on the line (as confirmed by Mr. Chae in the thread for that incident) and he dropped the game cause he wanted more practice. What's the difference? I heard letting Byun win the game would allow Byun to fight for a code A spot. Not technically straight up obtain it, but it would sitll allow him to advance in a tournament that had meaning. Not the same thing here. Mr. Chae said there was no deal in place for a Code A spot. There might be one now but at the time of the event there was literally no GSL spot to win.
Regardless it was in a Korean Weekly thingy wasn't it? With a prize and shit?
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Naniwa: "With nothing at stake people can't show their best."
Very disappointed. Sure, there was no immediate cash at stake from that match, but what about fan support? What about leaving behind an epic grudgematch to be talked about for several months? What about the 'image' of a 'progamer'? What about just playing a fine broadcasted game for the sake of playing the game?
Why would Blizzard schedule the game even if the result did not affect the numbers on the cheques?
There are certain underlying expectations that were shattered.
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Well....under no circumstances should a game ever be thrown, all the while, I understand where he is coming from, but at least do the four gate 
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His explanation is fine. It was definitely the wrong thing to do, but people are making too big of a deal over it.
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Femari stop talking about the coca vs byun incident. Byun asked coca ingame if he could quit so they could play a third game and coca agreed. Also, there was a cash prize for winning the tournament. How is this comparable to what naniwa did?
I think, if anyone, GOM should appologize to the players for putting them in such a awkward position. Ask yourself why gom dont play out these games in other tournaments.
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So many people overreacting to this.... Drama, drama and more drama...
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On December 14 2011 00:40 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:36 Ivanov wrote:On December 14 2011 00:20 CakeSauc3 wrote:
I think it's terribly funny how people mess up the meaning of the term "professional gamer" or "professional athlete". You're a "pro" because you make money doing that - not because of how you act.
Naniwa is certainly a pro-gamer. He still has sponsors, he still gets paid to play, and that's not gonna change with this.
If anything, people like me think he's even cooler now than he was before - because he did something flashy and different, he showed his emotions through his actions, and proved that he's human. He's gained me as a fan now. Props to him :D people just like to make drama out little things like this, but really I thought it was just funny what he did and it was a stylish way for him to go out of a meaningless game. I think it is terribly funny how you mess up the meaning of term "professional gamer" or "professional athelete". Professional athelete is a professional who professes in athletics. Professional gamer is a professional who professes in gaming. OR Professional actor is a professional who professes in acting. The list can go on. What I am trying to point out to you is, the concept of being professional doesn't change, if the second word that comes after professional is different. It's the word professional that defines what things are. AND it CERTAINLY defines how you act in that regard... If a gaming community wants "games/gaming" to be taken seriously by entire world, their professionals should take it seriously first... even an unnecesssary match. And because of this desire to be taken seriously, the community and players should be extra ethical and respectful, until your family or your friends who are making fun of you for playing game and do what you love, acknowledges your activity as a respectful activity. Players should avoid these behavior more until gaming is established and well-respected by ordinary joe. MC's quote is an awesome, White-Ra's type professionalism is the type that gaming community and professionalism needs. I do not think that word means what you think it means. taken from dictionary.com Professional following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder. notice the word following professional? It does not mention how the builder acts, but what the builder does, he builds for money. much like a professional gamer games for money.
Edited my post due to misusage of the words. But I also suggest you not to be a nit-picker who throws dictionary links, and to get my whole point instead of derailing it.
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It was just funny to be honest. You'd think someone died by the way people are reacting. We need more personalities like Naniwa imo. The previous three games were well played btw. Might as well have been 3-0.
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His behavior was pathetic. Naniwa has to understand he is a part of a professional environment. AFAIK he represents someone, he is paid a salary to play. He's not only playing for himself. If I were his sponsor I would finish the contract right away. It's definitely not the way I want to see my brand represented in public. He acted like a 10 year old kid who can't handle losses, really.
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EPT
