|
On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea.
So games should be judged differently depending on whether or not they're televised? I'm sorry, but that feels unprofessional if anything. It's just like those saying "it would have been ok to throw the game if he had only faked it by doing a weird build".
|
On December 14 2011 08:25 quirky2000 wrote:
I think this is just a learning experience for everyone in terms of expectations regarding a tournament. I'm sure next time NaNi wants to throw a game he'll at least mask it with a proxy gate or something.
Ignorance is bliss.
|
On December 14 2011 08:27 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. Yea,IdrA just leaves his games when he is ahead and everyone laughs it off and we move on.
LOL!!!!! that was pretty priceless 
|
On December 14 2011 08:27 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. So games should be judged differently depending on whether or not they're televised? I'm sorry, but that feels unprofessional if anything. It's just like those saying "it would have been ok to throw the game if he had only faked it by doing a weird build".
Doing a weird build, or proxy gateway would have given him a lot less flak at least.
|
On December 14 2011 08:18 Subversion wrote:
I can't say it "offends" me or makes me angry or anything because it doesn't.
What I can say is it seems pretty immature, just seems like a big crybaby throwing a tantrum because he lost.
You're paid to play games, so play them. When people are actually paying you a salary you can't always play out of self-interest, you're doing a job and sometimes you have to do that job, even if you don't really want to. That's life. Dry your eyes, mate.
If NaNiwa was an independent player instead, would you still be able to say the same thing about "doing his job?" That kind of logic is annoying to see, because it's the same one that prompted Rain to apologize for "cheesing" his way into the GSL finals. Players are competitors first, entertainers as a byproduct. Stephano openly states that he's in it for the money, yet no one lambasts him - at all.
|
On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea.
He threw a game against MC in the previous Winter Dreamhack, by 6pooling on Xel'Naga Caverns. You may claim that 6pool is a legitimate ZvP strat, but on Xel'Naga it loses 100% of the time against a player who pylon scout every time (MC). He basically threw the game out of frustration, because he lost the previous one after being well ahead. And this wasn't some meaningless groupstage match, it was Ro16, and the win allowed MC to advance.
Reaction? 20 pages of "lol Idra" in the LR thread, Incontrol tweeting angrily about the game (which he later ended up apologising for), and then life went on. Where were all the outraged esports defenders back then, I ask. Can they not act without Koreans telling them something is wrong?
|
On December 14 2011 07:41 Russano wrote:
It's not Naniwa's job to try and further the image of e-sports or gom. It would be nice if he did, but I'm certainly not gonna demonize him for it. I don't even think he should be punished by GOM at all wtihin the context of what he did, however it might be appropriate if you decided you needed to do it to discourage ANY sort of incidence even remotely resembling match fixing.
maybe we have just different opinions on this.
to me, the very moment you get paid, you receive certain responsibilities. sponsors pays the team, the team pays the player. so you have the responsibility to represent those two in 'a good way' (i dare to assume none of them want to be represented 'bad').
and the reason why i think GomTV has to penalize naniwa, is because of sports betting. GomTV has to declare this game invalid/fixed/whatever. so people can actually get their bets back, if the bookmakers don't cancel it on their own doing. then bookmakers can reclaim their losses from GomTV...GomTV from QxG and so on.
|
On December 14 2011 08:27 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. So games should be judged differently depending on whether or not they're televised? I'm sorry, but that feels unprofessional if anything. It's just like those saying "it would have been ok to throw the game if he had only faked it by doing a weird build".
Are you actually suggesting we dont use double standards? Preposterous.
|
Just ask yourself: What would Boxer do?
|
What most of the people dont understand is the korean CULTURE. You dont just ahit on what people havebworked so bard for in Korea. You do, and you're going to get fucked like how NaNiwa dis. He's lost respect from so many people because of the fact that he threw a game that everybody wishedto play themselves. MKP for example. He basically inadvertently shat on what many koreans have spent so much time on and then pissed on it. Knowing my Korean Culture, it's not a surprise such a reaction happened. Any of you been to naver? Yeah, doubt it.
|
On December 14 2011 08:18 Subversion wrote:
I can't say it "offends" me or makes me angry or anything because it doesn't.
What I can say is it seems pretty immature, just seems like a big crybaby throwing a tantrum because he lost.
You're paid to play games, so play them. When people are actually paying you a salary you can't always play out of self-interest, you're doing a job and sometimes you have to do that job, even if you don't really want to. That's life. Dry your eyes, mate.
That's actually a super solid point. I was on the "it's not a big deal" side but you're completely right. They are paid to be there. Whether it's me who's paying them or not (which it's not), he's paid to do a job, the whole job. I get paid to balance peoples' books and make sure their money is secure. I don't only KIND OF do that. I don't do half of it. And quite often my clients are rude fucking ass holes, but I still have to perform for them because, well, it's my job and they're paying me.
Thank you for making this seemingly simple but actually pretty deep and valid point. I appreciate your view. He's in the entertainment business, and he did not entertain.
|
I have no problem at all for them writing an article saying he's not a pro - that's not how pros act. They're right.
|
Is all fine guys. I hope in next big event we will only see 2 players trying while all the others throw their game. It's been a long time since I wish to see someone throw a game like Naniwa did. I think everybody should be proud of him and try to act like him. Imagine if everybody wasn't trying when they know they can reach their goal anymore, It would be a wonderful world!! It's not a big deal! It's only a game! (hope you guys get the sarcasm)
By the way, put yourself in a professional team where you can get millions$ as a salary. You are young, the big team call for you: Our team sucks so we want some new blood to build a team. The team isn't going to make the playoff this year but we want you to make your best....
At this point, you really think that the player won't try cause he can't win the big thing??? no he plays cause he likes it, he plays cause it's his job, cause people watch him, cause there a lot of money around the sport. of course, the playoof gives a big amuont of motivation, but professional player still try every single game.
Naniwa did threw away his game, it's disgusting for the Esport. I guess everybody who watched Blizzard cup for the first time for an Esport event won't bother to watch any other event.
|
On December 14 2011 08:30 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote:On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote:
It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it.
I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. He threw a game against MC in the previous Winter Dreamhack, by 6pooling on Xel'Naga Caverns. You may claim that 6pool is a legitimate ZvP strat, but on Xel'Naga it loses 100% of the time against a player who pylon scout every time (MC). He basically threw the game out of frustration, because he lost the previous one after being well ahead. And this wasn't some meaningless groupstage match, it was Ro16, and the win allowed MC to advance. Reaction? 20 pages of "lol Idra" in the LR thread, Incontrol tweeting angrily about the game (which he later ended up apologising for), and then life went on. Where were all the outraged esports defenders back then, I ask. Can they not act without Koreans telling them something is wrong?
Atleast he tried. 6pool is not 100% fail, he is hoping MC doesnt pylon scout and will get a freewin. Thats the game sometimes.
100% probe rush fails unless your a scrub with no micro...he had 2 more workers WHEN NANI LEFT HIS BASE.
|
On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote:
I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack.
I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea.
[/QUOTE]
Stephano did this dreamhack winter.... match also matherd.....
|
On December 14 2011 08:35 charcute wrote:
Naniwa did threw away his game, it's disgusting for the Esport. I guess everybody who watched Blizzard cup for the first time for an Esport event won't bother to watch any other event. If Naniwa would have taken the map off Nestea, he would delivered something his fans could be proud of: Beating Nestea. Sadly, he didn't even try.
|
On December 14 2011 08:04 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:06 etrensce wrote:
You play in Korea, you play by their rules. You live up to their standards and follow their culture. That is just how it is. OK. For any tournament outside Korea, translators are forbidden. Our countries, our rules, our common language, our culture. That is just how it is.
Except GomTV goes out of their way to provide English commentary. A very premium one. They accommodate foreigners way too graciously considering how awful every non-Korean MLG seeded player has done.
|
There's a difference between a desperate strat because your exhausted and frustrated, and saying "GG" and leaving after 2 minutes, which is what Nani did since he made no attempt to even micro his probes.
|
On December 14 2011 08:40 [F_]aths wrote:
he would delivered something his fans could be proud of: Beating Nestea. Sadly, he didn't even try.
He's already beaten NesTea twice.
Both times in BO3's.
|
This was in Korea not MLG. Big difference, it's like saying HuK can win GSL cause he won MLG.
Home turf matters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
