EPTAn article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 65
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:08 tlin wrote: Watch those games then and see for yourself. The main crux of the argument against Naniwa seems to be that he didn't play pretend with a weak all-in like everyone else (as Tyler pointed out) so he's "hurting" E-Sports. Meanwhile everyone complaining is just fine with a more concealed auto-loss build like HerO's cannons withour Air vs DRG. I've watched those games probably more than you have. Taking a game casually is not throwing a match. No. The point is that Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He said he would play all 4 games. He was being paid to pay all 4 games by GOM. Yet he is so weak minded that he cannot even half ass a game that he agreed to play. Not to mention he THREW THE GAME. That's the point. Whether or not he faked it or not, the backlash would be the exact same thing if he faked it and we found it. It's that he threw the game, not that we didn't know. Naniwa threw a game he personally had to agree to play. How professional of him. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
What I can say is it seems pretty immature, just seems like a big crybaby throwing a tantrum because he lost. You're paid to play games, so play them. When people are actually paying you a salary you can't always play out of self-interest, you're doing a job and sometimes you have to do that job, even if you don't really want to. That's life. Dry your eyes, mate. | ||
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iloveBankai
Australia50 Posts
Totally pathetic. So childish. There is more then just his own interest on the line in a televised match. | ||
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Earlobe
Canada9 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:15 Toadvine wrote: It is very clear, to me at least, that this has only generated such a huge amount of drama because of the Korean outrage. Idra did the same thing in a number of foreign tournaments and not a fuck was given outside of LR threads. There certainly weren't any idiots demanding their money back because they were deprived a single game between players who had nothing to win from it. I can somewhat understand the Koreans, although they're going way overboard over a relatively meaningless incident. But why TL is so up in arms over this suddenly, I do not know. I guess SC2 is really not that interesting by itself, and the scene can't live without these huge drama explosions on a regular basis. :/ Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:04 Agathon wrote: OK. For any tournament outside Korea, translators are forbidden. Our countries, our rules, our common language, our culture. That is just how it is. Sure have fun convincing tournament organizers that, i bet they will laugh in your face. You can't just randomly make up rules to fit your arugment you know. It should be known by now how big starcraft is in Korea for people to see this kind of stuff is just pushing their buttons. | ||
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Dundron2000
Sweden1140 Posts
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:01 StarStruck wrote: Um, you are aware this happens in real life sports all the time right? A lot of teams stop competing and have no fight back in them. That was the Toronto Maple Leafs for the longest time. ._. As a lifelong Leafs fan our lack of fight was a little bit more like a lack of good players as well as terrible ownership, players just didn't have the morale to play under Ballard, we haven't won the cup in 50+ years ETC. ETC. Atleast the players played, they scored, they lost but they entertained. The be-all end all of this discussion is: 1. Naniwa made 900$ USD for his 0-4, so that game was worth 150$ to him. 2. He is expected to respect the rules of competition in public at least. Too much of a pussy to leave the studio so he decides to slander the tournament on air? He is lucky Tastosis weren't casting I think the jokes would have never ceased, Artosis would be burning him a new asshole for that pathetic showing. And BTW, the Boxer mentality is a Champion's mentality. A real champion will fight no matter what and Nani is proving he doesnt have the heart to be a champion quite yet, which is probably why Leenock rolled him at MLG. There is a huge difference between players not showing to un-aired placement matches when they dont matter(still a bad thing but not HUGE) and embarassing yourself the team and the tournament in front of a worldwide live audience. | ||
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sechkie
United States334 Posts
Boxer gets a lot of hate from a lot of (especially newer) players because most of his strategies are cheese. But Boxer is beloved, not only because he basically created a market for professional starcraft but also because he plays for the fans, he shows games and strategies that can not only win, but also make exciting games for fans (see nuke rush against nalra). This is what makes people like Boxer a PROFESSIONAL gamer, not only someone who plays the game for money, but someone who understands their job. They are entertainers, they play a game to showcase to us (fans) and paid for by sponsors (who are selling products to us fans). For all of his bad manners and bad boy persona during shows, ladder, and a lot of balance whine; Idra has shown that he understands the respect he must give to the sponsors and organizers. Naniwa has shown time and time again that he is immature and rash. Nani should be held responsible to uphold the respect of the people that allow for him to compete in the tournament. Naniwa must learn what it means to be a progamer, it is not to just win but to uphold the respect of his peers because his play was no better than match fixing. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:18 Subversion wrote: I can't say it "offends" me or makes me angry or anything because it doesn't. What I can say is it seems pretty immature, just seems like a big crybaby throwing a tantrum because he lost. You're paid to play games, so play them. When people are actually paying you a salary you can't always play out of self-interest, you're doing a job and sometimes you have to do that job, even if you don't really want to. That's life. Dry your eyes, mate. He did play the game, he lost. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:59 Darksoldierr wrote: Well its funny how ppl talking about esports going mainstream but defending naniwa and co ( stephano, etc ) at the same time. If a basketball team, football team or any single player sport / team sports team gives up in the front of audience, puts its hand into the air and says "Well fuck it, i just lose from now on every game till the next season." I wonder how many would go out to watch them once again. The difference is those guys get payed disgusting amounts of money to do that, and yet still it happens from time to time. I think the last one I saw was an Atlanta hawks play off game, where they knew they were going to lose so they literally just started fucking around. On December 14 2011 08:21 sechkie wrote: Some of you guys aren't understanding what it means to have respect, whether you got cheesed or you got beat in a long drawn out macro game, you're strategy and execution was still inferior to your opponent and you still respect your opponent with a gg (atleast in live tournaments). You respect your opponent, the company, and represent your team/sponsors for sending you there. Boxer gets a lot of hate from a lot of (especially newer) players because most of his strategies are cheese. But Boxer is beloved, not only because he basically created a market for professional starcraft but also because he plays for the fans, he shows games and strategies that can not only win, but also make exciting games for fans (see nuke rush against nalra). This is what makes people like Boxer a PROFESSIONAL gamer, not only someone who plays the game for money, but someone who understands their job. They are entertainers, they play a game to showcase to us (fans) and paid for by sponsors (who are selling products to us fans). For all of his bad manners and bad boy persona during shows, ladder, and a lot of balance whine; Idra has shown that he understands the respect he must give to the sponsors and organizers. Naniwa has shown time and time again that he is immature and rash. Nani should be held responsible to uphold the respect of the people that allow for him to compete in the tournament. Naniwa must learn what it means to be a progamer, it is not to just win but to uphold the respect of his peers because his play was no better than match fixing. Care to point out "time and time again"? Because other then misinformation spread around MLG about his words to Nestea, I can't really think of anything else. Also, its not like he just killed his own nexus and left, or just refused to play the game, he did try to win. Where exactly do you draw the line on acceptable strategies, and non acceptable strategies? Its funny how the teams weren't in an outrage when BitbyBit SCV all inned almost every single game he played. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:18 iloveBankai wrote: He should get banned from GSL. Totally pathetic. So childish. There is more then just his own interest on the line in a televised match. Stephano gets banned from DH then too right? And Idra from any TL events also: no nothing was on the line, at all, that's the whole point rofl. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:19 Earlobe wrote: Exactly. It's not a big deal but one person said it was and it's like the Michael Jackson trial all over again. Oh, on kid was touched? What do you know now fifty kids had been touched. Next day it's 100. Jesus people. It's one game and like Toadyine says, it meant absolutely nothing. Demanding your money back? That's like buying a board game and returning it because you played it once and didn't win. It's nonsense. In the future don't buy a subscription for the season so we don't have to hear you whine. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. | ||
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
Obviously we all understand WHY Naniwa threw the game away (which without contention is exactly what happened). He saw no point. But he's not some evil figure of Esports desperately trying to undermine it at every turn, which is how some people perceive him to be. He's just immature. Point blank, end of story. I honestly believe he lacked the foresight to realize to what extent the backlash from his stunt would cause - he's one of the best SC2 players in the world, but he's no more mature than the average 20-year old. He forgot about the sponsors, the FREE GSL code A spot he received, above MUCH more deserving Korean players, the reactions of not only his fan base but ALSO his haters, his previous altercations @MLG with Nestea and the IM coach, and not to mention all this during the really fragile time during a team switch where public perception may be highly unstable. And I haven't even covered everything. He should receive a penalty suspension (length of time idk), for the sake of retaining the legitimacy of GSL competitions, for his immaturity. He lacks sufficient professionalism that is required of a progamer in Korea. EDIT* - But I'm still a Naniwa fan. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:16 magnaflow wrote: This is why e-sports will never flourish or make it main stream. I'm not talking about the incident either. This community is retarded. Yea, I kinda agree with you there. LeBron got less heat for basically mailing in a PLAYOFF GAME | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:55 ranshaked wrote: This is no different than a sports team throwing a game to rest their players for the playoffs. It's distasteful but stuff happens. I still like naniwa When teams play their lesser players to give them practice and rest their main players for the playoffs, it is seen as acceptable. When NesTea uses a lesser strategy to hide his best play, it is seen as acceptable. If a sports team fails to show up to a scheduled game, when thousands of fans bought tickets for the event, spent their time and money on watching them play, it is not seen as acceptable. Imagine if your favorite sports team just didn't even move the entire game. They spend the entire duration with 1 player passing the ball in to their opponents and waiting for them to score, then passing it to them again until the entire game is over, while the other players are sitting on the floor refusing to play. If you were a fan watching that game, would you find that acceptable? Would you still be a fan of their play? The answer is no unless you're a complete jackass. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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quirky2000
Australia50 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:22 Subversion wrote: I may be wrong, but I don't remember Idra ever doing such a blatant match-throwing at a big televised tournament like MLG or Dreamhack. I think that's the issue here, it's not some online tournament, it's actually televised on national television in Korea. Yea,IdrA just leaves his games when he is ahead and everyone laughs it off and we move on. | ||
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