EPTSure we were robbed of a great series, but we were robbed of that when both players had nothing to gain from winning, not when Naniwa pulled his probes. At least Naniwa didn't try to pretend he was playing seriously like every other player does.
An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 67
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
Sure we were robbed of a great series, but we were robbed of that when both players had nothing to gain from winning, not when Naniwa pulled his probes. At least Naniwa didn't try to pretend he was playing seriously like every other player does. | ||
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4of8
Germany256 Posts
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Ponchey
Sweden89 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:39 GeNeSiDe wrote: Atleast he tried. 6pool is not 100% fail, he is hoping MC doesnt pylon scout and will get a freewin. Thats the game sometimes. 100% probe rush fails unless your a scrub with no micro...he had 2 more workers WHEN NANI LEFT HIS BASE. But this is just the thing. The percentage doesn't matter. Whenever a player plays with the mindset "I don't care if I lose", it is the same, regardless if he's does a 4gate or a probe rush. The only difference is that the probe rush is a more honest statement. If the match actually has a meaning, like BratOK vs Stephano, the statement is "I don't want to win, because I don't want to face Sen in the next stage". If the match has no meaning, the statement is "I didn't want to play this game, but I had to". | ||
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Earlobe
Canada9 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:42 Eufouria wrote: Why isn't there as much of an outcry every MLG when Idra forfeits his placement matches or that time when Stephano and BratOK both tried to lose in order to avoid playing Sen? People don't like Naniwa, therefore they are outraged. As other people have said, why is this any worse then when players in the same situation use weak all-ins with a low chance of success? Sure we were robbed of a great series, but we were robbed of that when both players had nothing to gain from winning, not when Naniwa pulled his probes. At least Naniwa didn't try to pretend he was playing seriously like every other player does. "People don't like Naniwa" like he's the victim here? Naniwa earned his "bad boy" persona. He's a dick, people either love him for it and hate him for it. It would appear he needed to do something stupid like this to find out that more people hated him than loved him for it. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
He's a cry baby with an inflated ego who thought he could win the tournament and when things didn't go his way, wanted to take his marbles and go home. By throwing the last game, he tried to make it so to everyone, it wouldn't look like he lost 0-4. Like if he played straight, he could have won, but just didn't feel like it. It was a cowardly move, and also denied another player his rematch, and made his only win that day illegitimate. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:39 GeNeSiDe wrote: Atleast he tried. 6pool is not 100% fail, he is hoping MC doesnt pylon scout and will get a freewin. Thats the game sometimes. 100% probe rush fails unless your a scrub with no micro...he had 2 more workers WHEN NANI LEFT HIS BASE. The probe rush actually does quite well vs 6pool, which isn't exactly uncommon in high-level ZvP on large maps. Still, this is a stupid technical argument. Everyone knew Idra threw that game when it happened. He simply gave up. This was discussed on SotG, and nobody even tried to dispute this fact. So yeah, if you're outraged about Nani doing this, and weren't feeling the same back when Idra did it, then welcome to the land of hypocrisy, please enjoy your stay. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
And the whole "pretend to play seriously", how can you judge when a player is playing seriously. Are you watching the players hands every second? Are you people honestly that fucked in the head you think that every poorly-executed all-in is a surrender? Yes, the player may be exasperated, frustrated, desperate, going for a quick win because they know they cant win a long game, or maybe they want the quick win because they cant advance, whatever. It's still effort, its still professionalism. Does it cross your mind that for example HerO's all-in was odd because he knew he needed something un-predictable or else he would surely lose? If you really want Starcraft to be taken seriously beyond what it is now(which it is already doing, whether all of you like it or not!), it should be beyond the realm of possibility that you allow a player to give the minimum amount of effort on the main stage because he just cant be bothered to perform like he has been paid to do, bar a family emergency or health issue. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:48 Toadvine wrote: The probe rush actually does quite well vs 6pool, which isn't exactly uncommon in high-level ZvP on large maps. Still, this is a stupid technical argument. Everyone knew Idra threw that game when it happened. He simply gave up. This was discussed on SotG, and nobody even tried to dispute this fact. So yeah, if you're outraged about Nani doing this, and weren't feeling the same back when Idra did it, then welcome to the land of hypocrisy, please enjoy your stay. How is that hypocritical? Like I said, he made a game out of it atleast. It's a 50-50 scenario, yes he threw it in a sense because he didnt want to play a "standard" game but there was a chance to win, only lost because MC scouted it. So what? | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
Well what if he HADNT of walled off? Insta win. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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tlin
25 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:52 GeNeSiDe wrote: Does it cross your mind that for example HerO's all-in was odd because he knew he needed something un-predictable or else he would surely lose? Unpredictable would be if he actually had gone air opener and killed overlords like that cannon build calls for. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
I watch every one of his Code A games hoping he wins, only to see him lose EVERY time. | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:46 Zalithian wrote: It's just pathetic that people like Naniwa still can't show respect for others. It's not his responsibility to show respect to his fans. The point of being a progamer is not to impress your fans. It is to win tournaments. He he tells all of his fans to fuck off and stop watching him, that's fine too. It's not his responsibility to entertain people. | ||
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Earlobe
Canada9 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:21 GeNeSiDe wrote: As a lifelong Leafs fan our lack of fight was a little bit more like a lack of good players as well as terrible ownership, players just didn't have the morale to play under Ballard, we haven't won the cup in 50+ years ETC. ETC. Atleast the players played, they scored, they lost but they entertained. The be-all end all of this discussion is: 1. Naniwa made 900$ USD for his 0-4, so that game was worth 150$ to him. 2. He is expected to respect the rules of competition in public at least. Too much of a pussy to leave the studio so he decides to slander the tournament on air? He is lucky Tastosis weren't casting I think the jokes would have never ceased, Artosis would be burning him a new asshole for that pathetic showing. And BTW, the Boxer mentality is a Champion's mentality. A real champion will fight no matter what and Nani is proving he doesnt have the heart to be a champion quite yet, which is probably why Leenock rolled him at MLG. There is a huge difference between players not showing to un-aired placement matches when they dont matter(still a bad thing but not HUGE) and embarassing yourself the team and the tournament in front of a worldwide live audience. Nice, another Leafs fan. It goes way beyond personnel and ownership. It's up to the coach to unify them and rally the troops. Anyway, considering you have followed the Leafs for along time like myself I'll give my take on Mats Sundin in his later years because it's very relevant to some of the matters I brought up prior. (The funny thing is he's Swedish too) What beef do I have with Mats? Well, he was a good team captain and representative of the team. However, I question his effort on a nightly basis. I noticed more and more that he wouldn't try to get back into the play. As my Dad would say, "He coasted around the ice." Which was sad because he did. Remember how 1-dimensional Kessel used to be? Thank God he turned into a good 2-way player. A guy like Mats could probably still play in the league today. He knew how to spend his energy. It wasn't a matter of "Oh, Mats been out there for over a minute, he doesn't have enough energy!" The guy was a real pro when it came to conservation. :/ Which is unfortunate because he's a big guy and I know he can skate. Once again only one example. Has everything to do with the individual players too. Your points. 1. Johan only cares about winning. Couldn't do it and $150 USD more is pocket change to him. I don't think he cared all that much. It's up to the organizers to make sure there's more incentive to play. 2. There was no written rule about it. It has more to do with the Korean culture. They see it as being disrespectful-- "This is our House!" comes to mind. Johan wasn't thinking about anyone else but himself. I wouldn't call it slander. If he was mad at anybody it was at himself, but everyone is spinning it out of control. What did you expect? Considering all the games were going on at the same time. Leaving the studio is kind of tricky. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:01 Earlobe wrote: STATE OF THE GAME IS GOING TO BE SO JUICY TONIGHT! Indeed it will be. I'm thinking that they are gonna agree with the masses and then what seems like a neutral stance followed by the pillar saying what we should/shouldn't do and how we should/shouldn't act as fans. lol | ||
pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:57 GeNeSiDe wrote: Bottom line, I cant wait to see Naniwa flunk out of Code S in spectacular fashion; if he cant hack it in Code A he doesnt belong in Code S. I watch every one of his Code A games hoping he wins, only to see him lose EVERY time. Ever heard about DRG and MMA? Sometimes weird shit happens Btw I am not saying he will win everything and code s will be ez shit, just that we never know | ||
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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:58 MichaelDonovan wrote: It's not his responsibility to show respect to his fans. The point of being a progamer is not to impress your fans. It is to win tournaments. He he tells all of his fans to fuck off and stop watching him, that's fine too. It's not his responsibility to entertain people. That's a great way to lose your fans, sponsors and your team. There's better ways to handle things. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13293 Posts
On December 14 2011 08:58 MichaelDonovan wrote: It's not his responsibility to show respect to his fans. The point of being a progamer is not to impress your fans. It is to win tournaments. He he tells all of his fans to fuck off and stop watching him, that's fine too. It's not his responsibility to entertain people. That's absolute crap. He makes his living as a progamer because of the fan interest and support. Without that there would be no sponsorship, no money, no progaming. Progamers have a responsibility to be just that: professional. Disrespecting competitions by pulling the crap he did is completely the opposite of professionalism and a slap in the face for fans and sponsors who provide the support for guys like Naniwa to be a progamer. Naniwa is a good player, be he's incredibly weak mentally. Someone needs to pull him aside, give him a kick up the arse and remind him of his responsibilites as a progamer if he wants to keep making money off this game. | ||
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