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Update: Naugrim's statement
On December 02 2011 10:32 Naugrim wrote:Ok guys, i see that there are a lot of speculations about a possible team i might join. I'm not going to join Acer. I was contacted by their organisation, and we discussed things back and forth but eventually decided that i'm not going to join Acer. I haven't gotten a serious offer since i left GG. I'm avalible to join any top team that are interested, but until then i represent myself, and not a team. Thanks to everyone for the kind words! 
Just saw this while I was playing and I thought it was worth a mention. Another quite talented free agent on the field. Where is he going to end up? Gogo speculate
I could imagine Naugrim going to acer or eSahara. He's strong and talented but still rather B-class as a player, so don't expect a big team like dignitas or mouz to pick him up imo.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T0Pd7.png)
And the 'end' of BroodWar Naugrim was a member of the prestigeous team ToT.
Here is the Liquipedia list of his achievements, thanks to HerroPreaseTN. As most of you know/thought, nothing ground breaking but as many mentioned, he will be a solid B-player addition to any team and still has the potential to shine and show his true strength with the right support.
+ Show Spoiler +2nd place, CraftCup LITE #22
1st place, Zowie Star Open | Zowie Gear SWIFT
1st place, CraftCup #13
2nd place, CraftCup #12
2nd place, Competo Cup #5
1st place, UKstarcraft European Open #1 20£
2nd place, UKstarcraft European Wednesday #2 10£
2nd place, UKstarcraft European Wednesday #3 10£
2nd place, UKstarcraft Diamond #2
2nd place, ESL Go4SC2 Cup #83
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Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is 
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United States4796 Posts
o.O Hope he finds a team. Not much news from GG and marCoon.
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Good luck to Naugrim, very nice and mannered player, and very good gamestyle ! eSahara recommand him : D
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On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is
Congratulations on being ignorant, you probably could have written that in a blog.
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European Zerg i believe, if im not mistaken hes been doing well lately in some online events.
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On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is
Le look at country. United States. Not surprised.
GG kind of disappeared it seems like and Lastshadow even moved to the GOMTV house, anyone knows what happened?
User was warned for this post
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Naugrim is pretty solid player. Though hasn't shown a ton of results in the past while. He is quite talented, though I doubt he will ever be a top Zerg unless he is able to practice more.
Team GG is not in the best of shapes, having rather inactive and not very well known players on their team except for LS.
On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. GG kind of disappeared it seems like and Lastshadow even moved to the GOMTV house, anyone knows what happened?
He is still in Korean. If you follow his twitter he talks about working out with Khaldor. He is having a lot of hand problems though.
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never actually heard of gosugamers before, but after lookin into liquipedia i found out that ggs is the team of lastshadow
well naugrim used to play in some cups and in swedish events, didnt he? havent heard much at all from him lately so i dont really know how good he actually is right now,
either way gggl naugrim hopefully he finds a team that suits him, but why did he leave in the first place?
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On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised.
No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that.
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On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. GG kind of disappeared it seems like and Lastshadow even moved to the GOMTV house, anyone knows what happened?
He is still streaming via GosuGamers stream and he made a lot of vlogs for GG recently. So I would be surprised if he'd leave the team all of a sudden. But GG never made a name for themselves like QxG or eSahara did recently. I could imagine Naugrim going to acer or eSahara. He's strong and talented but still rather B-class as a player.
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naugrim is so talanted, he has a good bw history aswell. plz if any sponser is seeing this, PICK HIM!!!!
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On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that.
It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either).
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On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either).
Also from USA :D
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim
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On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that.
Well, I know who he is and I don't even follow SC2 that much
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
I doubt Acer would pick him up given they are already overloaded on Zergs.
He'll be a very solid 2nd tier Zerg addition to most teams though. Empire could do with filling out their Z roster a bit so maybe he could find a home there.
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naugrim was better once
havent heard anything from him lately
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Naugrim used to be in ToT at the end of BW (disclaimer: I'm not saying BW is dead, I'm talking about the transition to SC2 for most of the foreigner scene), but didn't have a breakout success in SC2 like some other high ranked BW foreigners. That might explain why many people know him and his potential and why on the other hand, quite a few have never heard of him.
Good luck to him, ex-ToT members will always have my support and fanboyism
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Apparantly he left because team dignitas wanted him, if he goes there you heard it here first
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On December 02 2011 00:34 sabas123 wrote:
naugrim is so talanted, he has a good bw history aswell. plz if any sponser is seeing this, PICK HIM!!!!
How do you know he is talented??? He was good in BW and now plays SC2 for 2 years and still is stuck on the same level. I dont know how much he plays but to me that doesnt really make him seem talented.
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On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. GG kind of disappeared it seems like and Lastshadow even moved to the GOMTV house, anyone knows what happened?
Why does country matter based on how ignorant someone is to the scene X_X, Im from US and I know who he is..
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Naugrim is kinda good, he had a really good series vs MC and only lost 1-2 or something. He should have won that last game to win the series but failed to do so. But he's really good and deserves more attention!
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Gotta agree with drooL, he might join in acer or eSahara, mostly acer I believe. Naugrim is a great guy!
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On December 02 2011 00:53 Kamikiri wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. GG kind of disappeared it seems like and Lastshadow even moved to the GOMTV house, anyone knows what happened? Why does country matter based on how ignorant someone is to the scene X_X, Im from US and I know who he is..
Jumping on the generalisation-train; I don't get why Europeans feel superior just because they know their own scene better than Americans.
When we're talking big guns like Nerchio, Stephano etc sure.
But when we're talking players like Naugrim it's completely allright to not know who he is. He hasn't made a lot of noice.
For those who don't know him, he's that guy from the Matrix.
The second movie that is, they put 2 of him in there.
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On December 02 2011 00:24 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Congratulations on being ignorant, you probably could have written that in a blog.
what? so if you dont now every pro/semipro out there you are ignorant? sigh
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Awww Mat.
Well, won't take you long to find a team anyway you Zergish Beast!
Good luck anyway tho.
And lolz @ all those people not knowing him. wtf?
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aww, apart from iNfeRnaL (dunno if you're on the team anymore, didn't see you on their team page) Naugrim was the only reason I cheered a bit for Team GG Guess there's no point now that some bad mannered guy with his Korean homies represent a site which allegedly is supposed to set the standard for manners and sportsmanship.
Team Liquid all the way, then!
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On December 02 2011 00:56 arew wrote:
Gotta agree with drooL, he might join in acer or eSahara, mostly acer I believe. Naugrim is a great guy!
Asha` has a point though - acer is full of Zergs already and I like the suggestion of Empire. They really lack some Zergs.
On December 02 2011 01:08 TheBanana wrote:
For those who don't know him, he's that guy from the Matrix.
The second movie that is, they put 2 of him in there.
loooooll :D:D
edit: Oh yeah, on the "Team GG seems to fade" thing: Talked to Ourk (EPS UK winner who got picked up by GG some months ago) and he isn't on the team anymore either, or hasn't been for a while in fact. So that leaves - what - lastshadow and 2 completely unknown Koreans I guess... Not so impressive.
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he was ToT)Naugrim( in BW and was top 200 on EU pretty much since first day of beta. should be enough to say: hes talented
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On December 02 2011 01:27 drooL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:56 arew wrote:
Gotta agree with drooL, he might join in acer or eSahara, mostly acer I believe. Naugrim is a great guy! Asha` has a point though - acer is full of Zergs already and I like the suggestion of Empire. They really lack some Zergs. Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 01:08 TheBanana wrote:
For those who don't know him, he's that guy from the Matrix.
The second movie that is, they put 2 of him in there. loooooll :D:D edit: Oh yeah, on the "Team GG seems to fade" thing: Talked to Ourk (EPS UK winner who got picked up by GG some months ago) and he isn't on the team anymore either, or hasn't been for a while in fact. So that leaves - what - lastshadow and 2 completely unknown Koreans I guess... Not so impressive.
Ourk left way waaaaaaaaaaaaay long ago though. Quite a few Korean players were picked up since then.
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Naugrim, noooo!! hahahahahah
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On December 02 2011 00:36 PET wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either). Also from USA :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim
But is the "also from USA" supposed to be a somewhat scornful remark on the stereotype that people from the US are "ignorant of other places"?
Or, is this just pointing out the FACT that people from thousands of miles away from a player probably will not have heard of the players unless that player has made a profound impact on the international scene.
Naugrim hasn't. I hadn't heard of him either. Yes, I'm from the US. No, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant -- it means Naugrim hasn't done enough to grab the world's attention (e.g. Stephano, Ret, Naniwa, etc. etc.). Thus, talking about him demands a proper introduction given that there is no way to reaonably expect that everyone's heard of him
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On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is
swedish zerg player and from what i noticed yesterday nice micro skills. or could have been bad micro on my part. I went 10-2 yesterday on euro server. the 2 losses were to naugrim keep in mind i play at gm level so all other players were either gm or high master.
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On December 02 2011 01:11 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:24 bennyaus wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Congratulations on being ignorant, you probably could have written that in a blog. what? so if you dont now every pro/semipro out there you are ignorant? sigh
Agree with this. To call someone ignorant for not knowing a player, especially the one being mentioned where his biggest accomplishments listed are a few online tourney wins is pretty silly.
I do agree however that there are more polite ways to tell people you've never heard of a player perhaps by asking the OP or someone else to tell them a little bit about the player and why he/she has a thread about him/her leaving a team rather than just saying something like "never heard of this player lol".
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aw, sad day. hope he doesn't fall of the scene as much as zpux did
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he won't fall off the scene, he had a lot of reasons for leaving, all of which are understood ~~;
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Regarding the ongoing USA debate:
It's actually a pretty big topic that deserves its own thread/blog but I'll try to sum it up quickly.
Europeans usually know about European talent extremely early compared to the USA fans. The reason for that is that they prove themselves in the weekly online cups, which pretty much only happen in EU (for some reason there isn't a big cup scene in the US). These cups are not as prestigeous as, say, an IEM, an MLG or a Dreamhack, but the competition is pretty much the same AND players have the tendency to play better from home.
So any talented player from EU will inevitably come up in some of these tours (CraftCup, ESL, 4players, ZOTAC etc) and finish high with impressive games against other top notch players, which means that everyone who watches these tournaments regularly (which mostly Europeans do) will already know about upcoming talent (prime examples are Nerchio, Kas, Stephano, elfi etc). For Americans, however, it usually takes a good performance on a large stage to take notice.
And then 'Americans' usually go o________o where did this guy come from and the people that follow the EU scene are like  dude... seriously... we've known for ages that this kid is sick. And that's where the general notion that US fans are 'ignorant' towards the EU talent/'underground' scene comes from.
tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent.
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Didn't Naugrim take a game off of Bomber in some big tournament group stages? I can't quite remember but it rings a bell.
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On December 02 2011 02:06 Ryka wrote:
Didn't Naugrim take a game off of Bomber in some big tournament group stages? I can't quite remember but it rings a bell.
Bomber don't know but MC definitely, as someone in this thread mentioned previously.
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On December 02 2011 02:02 drooL wrote:Regarding the ongoing USA debate: It's actually a pretty big topic that deserves its own thread/blog but I'll try to sum it up quickly. Europeans usually know about European talent extremely early compared to the USA fans. The reason for that is that they prove themselves in the weekly online cups, which pretty much only happen in EU (for some reason there isn't a big cup scene in the US). These cups are not as prestigeous as, say, an IEM, an MLG or a Dreamhack, but the competition is pretty much the same AND players have the tendency to play better from home. So any talented player from EU will inevitably come up in some of these tours (CraftCup, ESL, 4players, ZOTAC etc) and finish high with impressive games against other top notch players, which means that everyone who watches these tournaments regularly (which mostly Europeans do) will already know about upcoming talent (prime examples are Nerchio, Kas, Stephano, elfi etc). For Americans, however, it usually takes a good performance on a large stage to take notice. And then 'Americans' usually go o________o where did this guy come from and the people that follow the EU scene are like dude... seriously... we've known for ages that this kid is sick. And that's where the general notion that US fans are 'ignorant' towards the EU talent/'underground' scene comes from. tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent.
Point being, a casual fan, regardless of geographical location, who only watches the major tournis would have no clue who this guy is. (or his team for that matter) So it comes off as pretentious and rude to call people ignorant for not knowing a mid level pro with no big results. Maybe if you added the games of his that were posted earlier this page, or list the results he has posted, everyone could be happy?
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I've got too much time on my hands so here's a small introduction based on memory, liquipedia and gg.net (add a pinch of salt, as I'm not an expert);
Naugrim was around for a long time in BW and was considered a late bloomer. He got 3rd place in DreamHack Summer 2009, 4th place DH Winter 2009* (may be the other way around, seemed like that at Liquipedia). He was also a member of ToT)( which was pretty much the shit in foreign BW. Even though there were team rivaling them and they didn't win every Clan League all the time, I'm quite certain they were considered by most as the foreign team to be in. I guess it goes without saying, but he was also part of the Swedish National Team.
[*According to an interview on GG.net, which I can't for the life of me find right now, he stated that he's always, or at least often, has trouble with his nerves. Getting 3rd and 4th with nerves ain't too bad.]
As for Starcraft 2, I guess you could say he hasn't made quite the impact on the community yet, however he has gotten high placements in several cups (amongst one where he beat MaNa). Achievement list copied from Liquipedia:
2nd place, CraftCup LITE #22
1st place, Zowie Star Open | Zowie Gear SWIFT
1st place, CraftCup #13
2nd place, CraftCup #12
2nd place, Competo Cup #5
1st place, UKstarcraft European Open #1 20£
2nd place, UKstarcraft European Wednesday #2 10£
2nd place, UKstarcraft European Wednesday #3 10£
2nd place, UKstarcraft Diamond #2
2nd place, ESL Go4SC2 Cup #83
He joined the GG Team and represented them in DH Summer 2011 (I'm quite certain). I think it went so-so.
And now he's free like a bird on the turd with a third of his herd!
Do correct any errors I may have in the post, and I'll remedy them at once. Hope this is of any help.
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hm naugrim is decent and i expect him to be picked up by a team like imba.fxo or GL or maybe ROX
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Canada1637 Posts
Hope Naugrim finds a good home, great player.
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On December 02 2011 02:17 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 02:02 drooL wrote:Regarding the ongoing USA debate: It's actually a pretty big topic that deserves its own thread/blog but I'll try to sum it up quickly. Europeans usually know about European talent extremely early compared to the USA fans. The reason for that is that they prove themselves in the weekly online cups, which pretty much only happen in EU (for some reason there isn't a big cup scene in the US). These cups are not as prestigeous as, say, an IEM, an MLG or a Dreamhack, but the competition is pretty much the same AND players have the tendency to play better from home. So any talented player from EU will inevitably come up in some of these tours (CraftCup, ESL, 4players, ZOTAC etc) and finish high with impressive games against other top notch players, which means that everyone who watches these tournaments regularly (which mostly Europeans do) will already know about upcoming talent (prime examples are Nerchio, Kas, Stephano, elfi etc). For Americans, however, it usually takes a good performance on a large stage to take notice. And then 'Americans' usually go o________o where did this guy come from and the people that follow the EU scene are like dude... seriously... we've known for ages that this kid is sick. And that's where the general notion that US fans are 'ignorant' towards the EU talent/'underground' scene comes from. tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent. Point being, a casual fan, regardless of geographical location, who only watches the major tournis would have no clue who this guy is. (or his team for that matter) So it comes off as pretentious and rude to call people ignorant for not knowing a mid level pro with no big results. Maybe if you added the games of his that were posted earlier this page, or list the results he has posted, everyone could be happy?
Wrong.
Even casuals know about semi pros in EU because theres NEWS WEBSITES. Unlike TL wich is only a big forum where you have to gather information from a lot of different places.
EU tournament results are posted everyday on these websites and every country has like 2 or 3 of them.
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On December 02 2011 02:08 drooL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 02:06 Ryka wrote:
Didn't Naugrim take a game off of Bomber in some big tournament group stages? I can't quite remember but it rings a bell. Bomber don't know but MC definitely, as someone in this thread mentioned previously.
Yeah could've been thinking of that instead. But surely he's got some potential!
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He's a pretty strong Zerg player, when I was with GG I'd watch him practice every so often and with the right training partners could be a very valuable asset for a team.
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On December 02 2011 01:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 00:36 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either). Also from USA :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim But is the "also from USA" supposed to be a somewhat scornful remark on the stereotype that people from the US are "ignorant of other places"? Or, is this just pointing out the FACT that people from thousands of miles away from a player probably will not have heard of the players unless that player has made a profound impact on the international scene. Naugrim hasn't. I hadn't heard of him either. Yes, I'm from the US. No, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant -- it means Naugrim hasn't done enough to grab the world's attention (e.g. Stephano, Ret, Naniwa, etc. etc.). Thus, talking about him demands a proper introduction given that there is no way to reaonably expect that everyone's heard of him
My point is that USA only looks on what's popular, what's "there" and never on the substance. There are a lot of super good players like Naugrim that get no attention and not because they are "not good", because people don't care.
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On December 02 2011 02:06 Ryka wrote:
Didn't Naugrim take a game off of Bomber in some big tournament group stages? I can't quite remember but it rings a bell.
He beat MarineKing as well
gl finding a team Nugge!
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Bah GG.net not rly known for their own SC/SC2 team i guess?
They more popular with Dota (Dota 1 i shall call...Kuroky? Pajkatt ...Puppeh etc)... but yeah both team also seems inactive
only Naugrim & LastShadow active, he's at Kr (even help recruiting few Koreans to join GG.net)
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tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent.
Well EU is really fucking big compared to the US lot more people to play in cups. Maybe thats why?
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hes a very sick player i play lots of custom games with him very skilled a team should pick him up for sure
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On December 02 2011 08:24 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent. Well EU is really fucking big compared to the US lot more people to play in cups. Maybe thats why?
Well... the server that the people from the US play on, is shared by Canadians and people from Latin America as well, so I don't think size is the issue.
I just think it's a cultural thing. It might have something to do with the well-developed WC3 scene we had in EU, where a lot of these weekly cups started. A lot of the best EU players come from WC3 rather than BW, where there were plenty of online cups that have transitioned into SC2.
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On December 02 2011 02:53 PET wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 01:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On December 02 2011 00:36 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either). Also from USA :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim But is the "also from USA" supposed to be a somewhat scornful remark on the stereotype that people from the US are "ignorant of other places"? Or, is this just pointing out the FACT that people from thousands of miles away from a player probably will not have heard of the players unless that player has made a profound impact on the international scene. Naugrim hasn't. I hadn't heard of him either. Yes, I'm from the US. No, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant -- it means Naugrim hasn't done enough to grab the world's attention (e.g. Stephano, Ret, Naniwa, etc. etc.). Thus, talking about him demands a proper introduction given that there is no way to reaonably expect that everyone's heard of him My point is that USA only looks on what's popular, what's "there" and never on the substance. There are a lot of super good players like Naugrim that get no attention and not because they are "not good", because people don't care.
or maybe people from USA just don't care about EU online cups as much as people from EU.... or you know we're just all ignorant people who can't see past what's popular.
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On December 02 2011 08:43 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 02:53 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 01:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On December 02 2011 00:36 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either). Also from USA :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim But is the "also from USA" supposed to be a somewhat scornful remark on the stereotype that people from the US are "ignorant of other places"? Or, is this just pointing out the FACT that people from thousands of miles away from a player probably will not have heard of the players unless that player has made a profound impact on the international scene. Naugrim hasn't. I hadn't heard of him either. Yes, I'm from the US. No, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant -- it means Naugrim hasn't done enough to grab the world's attention (e.g. Stephano, Ret, Naniwa, etc. etc.). Thus, talking about him demands a proper introduction given that there is no way to reaonably expect that everyone's heard of him My point is that USA only looks on what's popular, what's "there" and never on the substance. There are a lot of super good players like Naugrim that get no attention and not because they are "not good", because people don't care. or maybe people from USA just don't care about EU online cups as much as people from EU.... or you know we're just all ignorant people who can't see past what's popular.
As well as all the EU cups being early in the morning and what not where we don't want to wake up early just to watch a cup lol. Funny how we are ignorant because we don't watch every EU cup thats on at a bad time for us anyway so we don't know all the up and coming eu players.
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I was watching his or haypros stream (or some other Swedish guys stream) and naugrim wrote in chat that he was leaving GG and was planning to join Acer (he wrote this in Swedish). This was a couple of weeks ago.
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On December 02 2011 08:46 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 08:43 fraktoasters wrote:On December 02 2011 02:53 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 01:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On December 02 2011 00:36 PET wrote:On December 02 2011 00:35 Complete wrote:On December 02 2011 00:32 Headshot wrote:On December 02 2011 00:26 Choboo wrote:On December 02 2011 00:22 ishyishy wrote:Hmm....Sorry but I dont know who this player is Le look at country. United States. Not surprised. No need to be so pretentious. Has this player shown any results in any major international tournaments? If not, you can't expect people a world a way to know who he is. Admittedly, it was kinda rude of him to post that. It's not rude to expect an explanation of who a player is in the OP considering he must be somewhat unknown (I have personally never heard of him either). Also from USA :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naugrim But is the "also from USA" supposed to be a somewhat scornful remark on the stereotype that people from the US are "ignorant of other places"? Or, is this just pointing out the FACT that people from thousands of miles away from a player probably will not have heard of the players unless that player has made a profound impact on the international scene. Naugrim hasn't. I hadn't heard of him either. Yes, I'm from the US. No, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant -- it means Naugrim hasn't done enough to grab the world's attention (e.g. Stephano, Ret, Naniwa, etc. etc.). Thus, talking about him demands a proper introduction given that there is no way to reaonably expect that everyone's heard of him My point is that USA only looks on what's popular, what's "there" and never on the substance. There are a lot of super good players like Naugrim that get no attention and not because they are "not good", because people don't care. or maybe people from USA just don't care about EU online cups as much as people from EU.... or you know we're just all ignorant people who can't see past what's popular. As well as all the EU cups being early in the morning and what not where we don't want to wake up early just to watch a cup lol. Funny how we are ignorant because we don't watch every EU cup thats on at a bad time for us anyway so we don't know all the up and coming eu players.
The finals of EU cups generally around midnight CET or close so it's hardly early morning US time?
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On December 02 2011 02:36 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 02:17 stokes17 wrote:On December 02 2011 02:02 drooL wrote:Regarding the ongoing USA debate: It's actually a pretty big topic that deserves its own thread/blog but I'll try to sum it up quickly. Europeans usually know about European talent extremely early compared to the USA fans. The reason for that is that they prove themselves in the weekly online cups, which pretty much only happen in EU (for some reason there isn't a big cup scene in the US). These cups are not as prestigeous as, say, an IEM, an MLG or a Dreamhack, but the competition is pretty much the same AND players have the tendency to play better from home. So any talented player from EU will inevitably come up in some of these tours (CraftCup, ESL, 4players, ZOTAC etc) and finish high with impressive games against other top notch players, which means that everyone who watches these tournaments regularly (which mostly Europeans do) will already know about upcoming talent (prime examples are Nerchio, Kas, Stephano, elfi etc). For Americans, however, it usually takes a good performance on a large stage to take notice. And then 'Americans' usually go o________o where did this guy come from and the people that follow the EU scene are like dude... seriously... we've known for ages that this kid is sick. And that's where the general notion that US fans are 'ignorant' towards the EU talent/'underground' scene comes from. tl;dr: EU ppl know talent from weekly cups, US ppl don't have these cups and need a big stage to see new talent. Point being, a casual fan, regardless of geographical location, who only watches the major tournis would have no clue who this guy is. (or his team for that matter) So it comes off as pretentious and rude to call people ignorant for not knowing a mid level pro with no big results. Maybe if you added the games of his that were posted earlier this page, or list the results he has posted, everyone could be happy? Wrong. Even casuals know about semi pros in EU because theres NEWS WEBSITES. Unlike TL wich is only a big forum where you have to gather information from a lot of different places. EU tournament results are posted everyday on these websites and every country has like 2 or 3 of them.
Many casual fans often don't even consistently follow the big leagues. I'd consider myself way more than a casual viewer and I still find it difficult to find time to closely follow the GSL or NASL. I care much, much less about the winners and runner ups of craftcup #s 30 - 40... Most of us don't care enough to follow the smaller tourneys, so unless a player goes and makes a name for himself at an MLG or a Dreamhack or something, don't be offended if few people are unfamiliar with his name or skill level. They're not ignorant, they just don't care enough, or don't have the time, to track 100s of small online cups when larger tournaments and real life issues are present.
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Naugrim is an awesome player, i hope he finds new home glgl
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The guy being pretentious about people not from his scene being unfamiliar with their players derailed the thread that's supposed to be about the player in question, not the oblivious guy that needed *one* post's explanation.
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I would say this is good news for him since GG didnt really get his name out there like ToT did. he will find better time easily. He is very known and awesome player
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Did anyone else first read the topic title as "Nazgul leaves Team..."? I was a bit spooked there.
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I think he's going to be more in the public eye for teams to notice him.
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Ok guys, i see that there are a lot of speculations about a possible team i might join. I'm not going to join Acer. I was contacted by their organisation, and we discussed things back and forth but eventually decided that i'm not going to join Acer. I haven't gotten a serious offer since i left GG. I'm avalible to join any top team that are interested, but until then i represent myself, and not a team.
Thanks to everyone for the kind words!
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Good luck with finding a good team
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Thanks for replying Mattias, I'll put your statement into the OP.
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EPT
