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On December 09 2011 02:23 spbelky wrote:
This is just my opinion, and I hope it gets read because I really think it is a valid and understated point, even on page 39 or 40.
Yes, each race has their unique strengths and skill requirements.
Terran needs perfect micro
Zerg needs perfect injects
Protoss needs perfect something, forgive me
However, when a Terran screws up his micro and loses a major engagement, his opponent can sprint for his production facilities, and once they're camped in his production line, it is complete GG.
No other race has this problem. Yes, a Zerg can have one or two hatches cut off, but a pro Zerg will just not reproduce their army from those larvae and move on (note, when I say pro, even most pro's don't have the presence of mind to do this.. sad). A Protoss might have that problem with their Robo, but their warpgates can warp in an army anywhere, so trying to camp a Protoss production is nearly impossible.
Now, combine this with the super mobility of Protoss/Zerg reinforcements, and the super immobility of Terran reinforcements, and the problem compounds itself. Once a Zerg or Protoss is in a Terran production line, their ability to reinforce their battleworn armies is superior. Proxy warp-ins/superspeed zerg units allow them to bolster their camping party, while denying any hope of retaliation.
So not only can Terran not camp Protoss or Zerg production efficiently once they've taken advantage after a battle, they can't even reinforce their troops in a timely manner.
All of what I've just stated relates back to the original topic, in that the ramifications for a Terran messing up their most difficult task is far worse than the other races.
But it's the same for all the races. If terrans mess up there most important task, microing there army, sure, there can be a very bad outcome. But it's just the same for a zerg player who terribly screws up his injects and macro. Or toss engadging wrong and not using any chrono boosts. It's just as bad on a pro level. If zerg's injects and macro are horrible, terran has more room for error on his strength. If terran fucks up and doesn't micro his units well, then zerg/protoss has more room for error. If protoss doesn't engadge correctly, more room for error is given to the enemy race. I don't think bad terran micro is worse than bad injects, or not engadging right as protoss to their respective races play. If you a play a race and don't utilize the core strengths of it, your gunna have a very hard time. Camping terrans production isn't the issue at hand. And most of the time terrans aren't reinforcing directly to their main army until they know it's safe, at a pro level. You see marines/medivacs parked outside their natural all the damn time when there on the map somewhere sieging an expansion or what not. Then reinforce when it's safe, ie you know where their army is,mutas etc. You can drops and take out gateways uber cost effective with drops, protoss can't do that as well. You can set up tanks in a position where zerg has to spread out his rally points and split up his army in order to not just have units dieing as they try and run to the rest of your army.
Again all of this is just people not wanting to recognize dealing with another races strengths dead-on is quite hard. It's hard to face a terran who is on top of his micro. It's really hard to face a toss who won't fight you until he is in a the perfect position to fight you. It's really hard to face a zerg who doesn't miss an inject and spends all his larve immediately. So naturally if you aren't exploiting your race as good as he is, your going to lose. And then you watch the reps and see ohh shit man.. terran is just so good. I had 40 banelings and didn't kill that army. Not ever noticing the fact that he focus fired your banelings with tanks, pre-split his marines and you didn't do everything you could to get a flank or surround.
Imbalance talk such as if terran fucks up it's worse than for the other races. IF ANYONE FUCKS UP IT'S BAD IF YOUR OPPONANT DOESN'T FUCK UP or capitalizes on your mistakes.
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Remove marauders, return vultures+mine. Game fixed.
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On December 09 2011 03:00 TeH_CaRnAg3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:23 spbelky wrote:
This is just my opinion, and I hope it gets read because I really think it is a valid and understated point, even on page 39 or 40.
Yes, each race has their unique strengths and skill requirements.
Terran needs perfect micro
Zerg needs perfect injects
Protoss needs perfect something, forgive me
However, when a Terran screws up his micro and loses a major engagement, his opponent can sprint for his production facilities, and once they're camped in his production line, it is complete GG.
No other race has this problem. Yes, a Zerg can have one or two hatches cut off, but a pro Zerg will just not reproduce their army from those larvae and move on (note, when I say pro, even most pro's don't have the presence of mind to do this.. sad). A Protoss might have that problem with their Robo, but their warpgates can warp in an army anywhere, so trying to camp a Protoss production is nearly impossible.
Now, combine this with the super mobility of Protoss/Zerg reinforcements, and the super immobility of Terran reinforcements, and the problem compounds itself. Once a Zerg or Protoss is in a Terran production line, their ability to reinforce their battleworn armies is superior. Proxy warp-ins/superspeed zerg units allow them to bolster their camping party, while denying any hope of retaliation.
So not only can Terran not camp Protoss or Zerg production efficiently once they've taken advantage after a battle, they can't even reinforce their troops in a timely manner.
All of what I've just stated relates back to the original topic, in that the ramifications for a Terran messing up their most difficult task is far worse than the other races. But it's the same for all the races. If terrans mess up there most important task, microing there army, sure, there can be a very bad outcome. But it's just the same for a zerg player who terribly screws up his injects and macro. Or toss engadging wrong and not using any chrono boosts. It's just as bad on a pro level. If zerg's injects and macro are horrible, terran has more room for error on his strength. If terran fucks up and doesn't micro his units well, then zerg/protoss has more room for error. If protoss doesn't engadge correctly, more room for error is given to the enemy race. I don't think bad terran micro is worse than bad injects, or not engadging right as protoss to their respective races play. If you a play a race and don't utilize the core strengths of it, your gunna have a very hard time. Camping terrans production isn't the issue at hand. And most of the time terrans aren't reinforcing directly to their main army until they know it's safe, at a pro level. You see marines/medivacs parked outside their natural all the damn time when there on the map somewhere sieging an expansion or what not. Then reinforce when it's safe, ie you know where their army is,mutas etc. You can drops and take out gateways uber cost effective with drops, protoss can't do that as well. You can set up tanks in a position where zerg has to spread out his rally points and split up his army in order to not just have units dieing as they try and run to the rest of your army. Again all of this is just people not wanting to recognize dealing with another races strengths dead-on is quite hard. It's hard to face a terran who is on top of his micro. It's really hard to face a toss who won't fight you until he is in a the perfect position to fight you. It's really hard to face a zerg who doesn't miss an inject and spends all his larve immediately. So naturally if you aren't exploiting your race as good as he is, your going to lose. And then you watch the reps and see ohh shit man.. terran is just so good. I had 40 banelings and didn't kill that army. Not ever noticing the fact that he focus fired your banelings with tanks, pre-split his marines and you didn't do everything you could to get a flank or surround. Imbalance talk such as if terran fucks up it's worse than for the other races. IF ANYONE FUCKS UP IT'S BAD IF YOUR OPPONANT DOESN'T FUCK UP or capitalizes on your mistakes.
If you don't cronoboost as toss you can just crono all your warpgates after a big engagement and reinforce faster than a zerg yo.
If you lose an engagement as Terran its gg if they reach your production facilities unless its TvT because Tanks are literally the only unit that lets you beat much stronger armies back with good positioning. Basically you're fucked if you ever reach 200/200 as Terran because your production is way slower and your rally times are much longer so if you barely lose the endgame engagement its GG. This is a fundamental problem which could easily be fixed by a global reduction of supply costs on most units, not just for Terran units but for all races.
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On December 09 2011 02:19 drax2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:09 Plansix wrote:On December 09 2011 00:59 Xaga wrote:On December 09 2011 00:05 Qibla wrote:On December 08 2011 21:34 Tingles wrote:On December 08 2011 19:06 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 08 2011 16:40 Tingles wrote:On December 08 2011 16:14 ZorBa.G wrote:On December 08 2011 15:03 kofman wrote:On December 08 2011 14:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
People still think that the other races don't have to micro? not compared to terran. and also terran's units scale a lot better with micro (and get a lot worse without) than the other races. thats a problem. I agree with this, if talking in regards to the T v Z mu. But in T v P, Terran needs to micro in order to "keep up" with toss. And so you fucking should when you have teir 1 units as the balls of your army. You have an entire half an army that never gets used because MMMGV is so fucking good, why would you need to go it? Mech is starting to get used a little bit. And mech basically has almost no micro ... it's all about the strategy and positioning. You have to micro more cause of the unit composition you choose, NOT because of your race. EDIT: Also don't want to get into a "HERP DERP MECH ISNT VIABLE THATS WHY HERP DERP" ... dont' give a shit. Just wanted to point it out. This is just the problem, MMMVG is not "so fucking good" once you get into late game. By then, our only choice is to micro our asses off against a Toss who has literally headbutted his keyboard into the a move (Chargelot/Archon). While the Terran player has his whole fucking family at the keyboard looking after 1 control group each trying to micro. Yes, it gets crowded at my desk...... And I agree, we do have to micro because of our unit composition, I wish mech was viable and believe me...SOOOOO many other Terrans do as well. At least we would be able to a move headbutt our armies into each other!........ I'm getting sick of having my whole family in the room, believe me! Fix this Blizzard! erm ... once agian back the ignorant argument of "terran has the most micro, toss has to do noting! it's so easy!" And at no point did i say Terran micro is easy btw, it's hard. All 3 races are. But you are living in a fantasy world if you think that it's like a surgeon preforming heart surgery for Terran to fight, and Toss is the lazy supervisor eating a bagel occasionally checking on the progress of the open wound. Can you please detail what is so hard about Protoss micro? Sorry if I'm ignorant, but it just seems piss easy... f shift spam click. t shift spam click. box all army a move click. lean back and drink a soda  I like to imagine my Protoss opponents 1a'ing across the map, getting up and grabbing a snack from the kitchen, and coming back to collect their ladder points after a few minutes. Really though, there's no other viable late-game strategy in TvP other than bio... But by that point, it's all down to the little micro.. Unless you just say screw it and stim and attack the protoss. It's all about spreading units and staying back til you snipe some colossi with Vikings or get some good EMP's on the High Templar.. And on the Protoss side you need to worry about being EMP'd and keeping your Colossi back behind your stalkers. I think TvP would be so much more enjoyable if you could just attack your opponent and not get your army melted in a few seconds. Nope, instead it's all about ~30 supply of your army, until the important units are killed (for either side). The set up for the battle is where most of the work is done. Once the battle starts, it's mostly keeping the efficiency going. This is true for protoss. But for terran it's the exact opposite, terran has to micro the entire time in a big engagament, protoss on the other hand has to set up their army pre-fight and can then sit back, cast a few forcefields and storms and well... a move the rest of the army.
I guess you could assume that. I could say that terrans just stim and then alternate between clicking behind their army and pressing the stop command. But I know thats not true.
Protoss also have to move their colossi away from viking. Focus down the vikings with the stalkers(which will default to shooting ground units). Retarget and focus with their colossi. Make sure guardian shield is covering as many zealots as possible. Hit storms and morph the templars into archons. Make sure that templar do not bunch up. Feedback medivacs if possible or necessary.
Both sides have lots work to do in an engagment. No one is free from the need to micro.
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I'm pretty sure that if there was any race that was so easy it only required an "a-click" and a bit of macro to win; we would see about 99.9999999999999999% of the pros instantly switch over and start playing on that race...
I would for sure.
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I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^
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On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^
Terran is the easiest for me to play so I always feel like crap when I lose, but still feel like a bad-mothafucka when I win.
But maybe that's just me.
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On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^
Yes they sohuld have stopped patching the game when tanks did 60 dmg to everyything.
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On December 09 2011 03:00 bubblegumbo wrote:
Remove marauders, return vultures+mine. Game fixed.
Right, because an obs and a single colossus wouldn't be able to clear up every minefield ever with no risk to the Protoss army or anything...
Hell, you could even walk around triggering mines with a blink stalker and then get away before they blow up.
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On December 09 2011 03:14 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:00 TeH_CaRnAg3 wrote:On December 09 2011 02:23 spbelky wrote:
This is just my opinion, and I hope it gets read because I really think it is a valid and understated point, even on page 39 or 40.
Yes, each race has their unique strengths and skill requirements.
Terran needs perfect micro
Zerg needs perfect injects
Protoss needs perfect something, forgive me
However, when a Terran screws up his micro and loses a major engagement, his opponent can sprint for his production facilities, and once they're camped in his production line, it is complete GG.
No other race has this problem. Yes, a Zerg can have one or two hatches cut off, but a pro Zerg will just not reproduce their army from those larvae and move on (note, when I say pro, even most pro's don't have the presence of mind to do this.. sad). A Protoss might have that problem with their Robo, but their warpgates can warp in an army anywhere, so trying to camp a Protoss production is nearly impossible.
Now, combine this with the super mobility of Protoss/Zerg reinforcements, and the super immobility of Terran reinforcements, and the problem compounds itself. Once a Zerg or Protoss is in a Terran production line, their ability to reinforce their battleworn armies is superior. Proxy warp-ins/superspeed zerg units allow them to bolster their camping party, while denying any hope of retaliation.
So not only can Terran not camp Protoss or Zerg production efficiently once they've taken advantage after a battle, they can't even reinforce their troops in a timely manner.
All of what I've just stated relates back to the original topic, in that the ramifications for a Terran messing up their most difficult task is far worse than the other races. But it's the same for all the races. If terrans mess up there most important task, microing there army, sure, there can be a very bad outcome. But it's just the same for a zerg player who terribly screws up his injects and macro. Or toss engadging wrong and not using any chrono boosts. It's just as bad on a pro level. If zerg's injects and macro are horrible, terran has more room for error on his strength. If terran fucks up and doesn't micro his units well, then zerg/protoss has more room for error. If protoss doesn't engadge correctly, more room for error is given to the enemy race. I don't think bad terran micro is worse than bad injects, or not engadging right as protoss to their respective races play. If you a play a race and don't utilize the core strengths of it, your gunna have a very hard time. Camping terrans production isn't the issue at hand. And most of the time terrans aren't reinforcing directly to their main army until they know it's safe, at a pro level. You see marines/medivacs parked outside their natural all the damn time when there on the map somewhere sieging an expansion or what not. Then reinforce when it's safe, ie you know where their army is,mutas etc. You can drops and take out gateways uber cost effective with drops, protoss can't do that as well. You can set up tanks in a position where zerg has to spread out his rally points and split up his army in order to not just have units dieing as they try and run to the rest of your army. Again all of this is just people not wanting to recognize dealing with another races strengths dead-on is quite hard. It's hard to face a terran who is on top of his micro. It's really hard to face a toss who won't fight you until he is in a the perfect position to fight you. It's really hard to face a zerg who doesn't miss an inject and spends all his larve immediately. So naturally if you aren't exploiting your race as good as he is, your going to lose. And then you watch the reps and see ohh shit man.. terran is just so good. I had 40 banelings and didn't kill that army. Not ever noticing the fact that he focus fired your banelings with tanks, pre-split his marines and you didn't do everything you could to get a flank or surround. Imbalance talk such as if terran fucks up it's worse than for the other races. IF ANYONE FUCKS UP IT'S BAD IF YOUR OPPONANT DOESN'T FUCK UP or capitalizes on your mistakes. If you don't cronoboost as toss you can just crono all your warpgates after a big engagement and reinforce faster than a zerg yo. If you lose an engagement as Terran its gg if they reach your production facilities unless its TvT because Tanks are literally the only unit that lets you beat much stronger armies back with good positioning. Basically you're fucked if you ever reach 200/200 as Terran because your production is way slower and your rally times are much longer so if you barely lose the endgame engagement its GG. This is a fundamental problem which could easily be fixed by a global reduction of supply costs on most units, not just for Terran units but for all races.
Ofc losing an engadgement as terran/protoss is worse than zerg. It has to be. So your saying if your bad and have a bunch of chrono you can reinforce super fast as toss? That's really inaccurate imo. Sure they may have 2-4 nexus with energy, and can chrono maybe 2-3 rounds of units before the enemy gets there if he just crushes the army and walks to there front door. But 2-3 rounds of units is BS against any decent bio force/hive tech army. And if he has enough energy on his nexus to keep up chronoing units to remax, he hasn't been doing so well with his macro mechanic up until that point has he? Just like terran dropping 100000 mules late game because they forget to keep sending down mules the whole game and because the person there playing is bad, even after massive harassment they can attack and then reinforce because of random godlike income. Terran lategame can be crappy against toss, this is well known and discussed. Ghosts are godlike against zerg lategame, mass ghosts beat everything zerg has to offer at hive tech. The rally times are much slower, but I see a lot of times pro terrans stopping production camping from mutas and what not by over making turrets and not having there rally point accross the map every time there attacking. instead, move out with a big force, and rally to there natural, and when there tanks are setup, and they know where the enemy army is, they can safely reinforce. If a warp prism/mutas come into the terran main, he has units there to defend because he hasn't just sent everything he has with his army and herp derp didn't care about finding out if it was safe or not. If toss loses a big late game fight it's over too. Losing Col you've built up over time, sentrys built up over time etc, and if they've been using there chronos correctly they SHOULDN'T be able to chrono out 5-8 warpgate cycles of units for 2 reasons, 1, they surely will have enough energy for 1-3 cycles possibly, but they should be using that chrono the whole game. 2. if you've crushed a lategame push who is going to go back and turtle? If you crush an army with mass late game tech your going to push and see if you can end it or at least do damage and the very least clean up expos which is the main focus of late game play. So your arguement is that it's GG when terran loses a push because he didn't micro and they can just auto-camp his production isn't true at the high levels, which is the only level you can discuss fundemental problems on. Camping terran production happens when the terran has already reinforced, and a zerg for instead decides to camp his production and risk not having mutas for the fight the terran is bringing to their doorstep with there whole army. And mutas not being there can make the difference between losing the fight and the game because all you have are mutas and he's fucking your base up. Or keep your mutas at home to help deal with the push. If a terran has no defensives for his production he should lose. But normally, as a I said, what terran just blindly sends everything they have at a zerg knowing there are mutas out and unaccounted for? Unless he feels safe with the amount of turrets he has, which is unlikely. Camping terran production happens when the terran is bad or really fucks up. If ANYONE leaves there base and production open ANY of the races can do the same thing. What if a toss has nothing at his main and you drop and take out his gateways and gtfo? Sure he can try and warp-in units to defend but 2 medis with marine/maraurder stimmed can take out buildings pretty effin fast. So it's possible there. What about all the constant drops terrans do to the production of a zerg? Sniping queens and killing drones, the 2 most important parts of the zerg strengths? See what im getting at here? It's not like everytime a terran loses a fight, there production is camped and they lose. because terrans know that defensive play can be offensive play. Leaving your rally point for your units at your natural allows to stop ling runbys, prevent muta production camping, deal with warp prism harass, all the while moving out and setting up your position. Toss loses out at 200/200 just as much as terran. Zerg is the only one who can somewhat benefit from waiting a bit after hitting 200/200 because they tend to hit max first and want some banked money for remaxing there armies. But toss can't just remax a huge Col. ball. Just as meching terrans can't remax an army with 20 tanks.
Maybe supply costs for units is something needing work, not sure about that, haven't really done that much research into it.
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There is nothing wrong with Terran being the hardest race.
But it does make racial diversity rather awful for foreign tournaments. Foreign TvT is laughably bad, and the other match ups are very timing based on the Terran's part. Thorzain and Select seem to be the only foreigners who have had a decent amount of success.
Of course, Blizzard should patch according to the top level of play, or GSL will be completely imbalanced.
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On December 09 2011 03:37 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^ Yes they sohuld have stopped patching the game when tanks did 60 dmg to everyything.
Imo both of your points are right. They need to patch the game, that's what makes sc and blizzard the shiznit. But at the same time, EVERYONE, all players, should the mindset that they just need to play better to win. Nothing else should matter to players, because that's all they can control. David Kim, and others at blizz, should be patching the game balance wise from ONLY a pro level, and that is it. Because we as the majority of online players don't actually lose to imbalance shit because Us AND the people we play aren't doing things 100 percent correct anyway. we miss injects, we miss timings, we aren't near perfect. So naturally that is the only thing we can control, so that is the only thing we should be focusing on. All balance threads that aren't just talking about things on a pro level, should just be replaced by threads on ways to better improve your play.
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Because this makes Terran units theoretically 'stronger' than the other races, Blizzard has implemented many nerfs to the Terran race to compensate for this micro potential. The way Blizzard appears to view the race is that, in head on battles, Terrans will always lose the fights to storms/colossus/fungals/banelings, etc. However, with good micro, Terran is able to win fights that it theoretically should lose based on raw battle power.
This made me stop taking it serrios. It is true that terrans has gotten many nerfs over the year but really the vast majority of them is because of terrans ability to apply early aggression. But they have only been targeted towards early aggression. No direct nerfs to marines, No direct nerfs to maruaders. The only really big late game nerfs to terran has been to the most immobile units in terrans arsenal, The Siege tank and the Battlecruiser. Only recently has there been nerfs to the ghosts but asside from that no terran nerfs has been towards the microable units in the terran arsenal. Only thing nerfed is the terran Rushes.
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On December 09 2011 03:59 TeH_CaRnAg3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:37 Hider wrote:On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^ Yes they sohuld have stopped patching the game when tanks did 60 dmg to everyything. Imo both of your points are right. They need to patch the game, that's what makes sc and blizzard the shiznit. But at the same time, EVERYONE, all players, should the mindset that they just need to play better to win. Nothing else should matter to players, because that's all they can control. David Kim, and others at blizz, should be patching the game balance wise from ONLY a pro level, and that is it. Because we as the majority of online players don't actually lose to imbalance shit because Us AND the people we play aren't doing things 100 percent correct anyway. we miss injects, we miss timings, we aren't near perfect. So naturally that is the only thing we can control, so that is the only thing we should be focusing on. All balance threads that aren't just talking about things on a pro level, should just be replaced by threads on ways to better improve your play.
Off-topic ...dude please learn to use paragraph breaks ...
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On December 09 2011 03:37 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:00 bubblegumbo wrote:
Remove marauders, return vultures+mine. Game fixed. Right, because an obs and a single colossus wouldn't be able to clear up every minefield ever with no risk to the Protoss army or anything... Hell, you could even walk around triggering mines with a blink stalker and then get away before they blow up.
Uhh go take a look at BW PvT and.. mines don't blow up unless they get in contact with something.
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Sad Marine fan club soon?
First time below 50% on monthly win rates - tough times!
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On December 09 2011 04:03 Omar91 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:59 TeH_CaRnAg3 wrote:On December 09 2011 03:37 Hider wrote:On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^ Yes they sohuld have stopped patching the game when tanks did 60 dmg to everyything. Imo both of your points are right. They need to patch the game, that's what makes sc and blizzard the shiznit. But at the same time, EVERYONE, all players, should the mindset that they just need to play better to win. Nothing else should matter to players, because that's all they can control. David Kim, and others at blizz, should be patching the game balance wise from ONLY a pro level, and that is it. Because we as the majority of online players don't actually lose to imbalance shit because Us AND the people we play aren't doing things 100 percent correct anyway. we miss injects, we miss timings, we aren't near perfect. So naturally that is the only thing we can control, so that is the only thing we should be focusing on. All balance threads that aren't just talking about things on a pro level, should just be replaced by threads on ways to better improve your play. Off-topic ...dude please learn to use paragraph breaks ...
Yah was a bit off-topic just responding so what they were talking about. My apologies if you have an issue reading my blocks of text lol. I will try to remember to use more paragraph breaks in my posts.
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On December 09 2011 04:03 Sephy90 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:37 forsooth wrote:On December 09 2011 03:00 bubblegumbo wrote:
Remove marauders, return vultures+mine. Game fixed. Right, because an obs and a single colossus wouldn't be able to clear up every minefield ever with no risk to the Protoss army or anything... Hell, you could even walk around triggering mines with a blink stalker and then get away before they blow up. Uhh go take a look at BW PvT and.. mines don't blow up unless they get in contact with something.
what?
what?
have you seen bw pvt?
goons with hold position micro can already take it out
goons with an obs flying over the mine field easily clear it out. The key factor is that it still slows down the eventual attack giving mech based terran armies time to position themselves with tanks. THATs what made vultures/mines so good. that + cheap and harassment viable is the GG.
But there's nothing wrong with what forsooth said, 1 obs and a single colo would clear up mines pretty fast, BUT, that means he'd be exposed from the front to get sniped by vikings.
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On December 09 2011 04:13 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:03 Sephy90 wrote:On December 09 2011 03:37 forsooth wrote:On December 09 2011 03:00 bubblegumbo wrote:
Remove marauders, return vultures+mine. Game fixed. Right, because an obs and a single colossus wouldn't be able to clear up every minefield ever with no risk to the Protoss army or anything... Hell, you could even walk around triggering mines with a blink stalker and then get away before they blow up. Uhh go take a look at BW PvT and.. mines don't blow up unless they get in contact with something. what? what? have you seen bw pvt? goons with hold position micro can already take it out goons with an obs flying over the mine field easily clear it out. The key factor is that it still slows down the eventual attack giving mech based terran armies time to position themselves with tanks. THATs what made vultures/mines so good. that + cheap and harassment viable is the GG. But there's nothing wrong with what forsooth said, 1 obs and a single colo would clear up mines pretty fast, BUT, that means he'd be exposed from the front to get sniped by vikings.
He's right.... unlike action movies the explosions aren't the most important part of that situation. It's the same way toss use DT's to slow down pushes. The damage done isn't the point, it's nice if it happens, but it's not why your doing it.
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On December 09 2011 03:37 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:28 windsupernova wrote:
I wish people just accepted that they need to play better to win. Thats the only thing that matters.
Blizzard should announce they won't patch anymore so that people stop being concerned on [How I would design the game] and start being concerned in [What do I need to improve to win]
All races need Micro, I don't even know why people say that P and Z just A move, yeah the micro may not be flashy, but it is definitively there.
Welp, I guess I am a happy player because now that T is a hard race I can feel cooler when I win ^_^ Yes they sohuld have stopped patching the game when tanks did 60 dmg to everyything.
They should make Spawning pool cost 150 mins again ^_^
Stuff obviously will need to be patched if its proving too dominant, my point is that we as players should stop with the "Blizzard should solve all my problems" mentality.
I can't really blame Blizzard, it is their job to please their customers after all, but I just wish that every time a strategy is looking strong people wouldn't start thinking ways of getting it nerfed. Personally I loved the imbalances in BW, I loved how stuff actually looked so strong, I loved to know how a certain race would have to work for their win in some MUs. I guess I like working hard for my wins, I don't really care much how much the other guy has to work to beat me, I care more about how hard the game is for me and as long as I can beat the other dude by playing better I don't really care much about everything else
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EPT
