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nShade
Bulgaria296 Posts
On the other hand, I want to thank the guy who makes these graphs. Really appreciated. I feel like terran needs some small nerf change of something *cough*marines*cough* that is core for the race, to sort out the problems with both XvsT match-ups, but don't don't flame me for saying that. I am no pro, so my 2 cents don't have much worth. | ||
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Robje
Netherlands1044 Posts
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Hetz
196 Posts
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Vehemus
United States586 Posts
You could have looked at the state of PvZ in February and decided that Protoss was overpowered and Zerg can't win without a major change to the matchup. Since those February winrates, what's happened? Protoss: +Charge Zealot buff +Archons became massive +Archon range buff +Immortal range buff +Mothership acceleration buff +Sentry build time buff +Warp prism buff -Blink research +30 seconds -Pylon power radius decreased by .5 -Warpgate research +20 seconds -Archon Toilet nerfed -Amulet removed Zerg: +Spore crawlers root time decreased by 6 +Overseer cost change +Ultralisk build time =Infestor fungal changed, buffed, then nerfed -Neural Parasite range nerf -Contaminate energy nerf -Infestor speed nerf If anything, Protoss has received far more favorable changes in the last eight months, outside of the Amulet removal. Yet their winrate in PvZ has dropped to the lowest in SC2 history the last two months. The game changes. Strategies change. Look at Brood War race winrates even when no patches were implemented for years. It's getting to the point where Terran has been on top for so long that it's fair to consider something may have to change, but even that isn't a sure thing. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
In january terran has a 53,9% win rate but the curve is somewhere at around 55% and in july terran has a 53.8% win rate but the curve is at 52%. It makes this graph useless because when you have a first look just the line that is drawn makes it look alot more imbalanced than it is.. explain this to me please? On November 07 2011 05:16 Hetz wrote: That top graph...why is the blue line always above the others? yeah it's bullshit, when zerg had a higher overall win rate than terran in june the line still showed an almost 3% advantage for terran. like I said soooo misleading | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:18 doko100 wrote: Look at the overall win rate. In january terran has a 53,9% win rate but the curve is somewhere at around 55% and in july terran has a 53.8% win rate but the curve is at 52%. It makes this graph useless because when you have a first look just the line that is drawn makes it look alot more imbalanced than it is.. explain this to me please? Uhm what? The way the curves are made makes it seem less imbalanced if anything thanks to it working to lessen the fluctuations. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
 I just find it funny that Zerg has been favored constantly for a half a year now in PvZ and there are still zergs whining about how impossible the MU is. I get it on the ladder every day. | ||
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coolcor
520 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:12 yzzdups wrote: I kind of feel like this bar graph almost exaggerates the discrepancy in the win rate. Example, there is a 7% win rate difference between protoss and zerg, but the bar representing the statistics is less than half as tall for the protoss, as it is for the zerg or terran. I feel this is because the graph begins at 40% mark, rather 0 or 1. EDIT: I just want to add that I'm not stating the game is balanced or not, I just feel like the graph appears a bit more extreme than it should. Did anybody complain about the scale back when it was just a line graph and not a bar graph? I think that is what makes people feel like it is misleading because a lot of the height of the bar has been cut off even though they show the same points as the line graph. He made one with the full scale for Korea last month would you really prefer this it just wastes a bunch of space from 0-40 and 60-100 with no information making the interesting part smaller and harder to read. http://i.imgur.com/dNKqa.png | ||
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:21 nam nam wrote: Uhm what? The way the curves are made makes it seem less imbalanced if anything thanks to it working to lessen the fluctuations. You don't get it.... In january it says T winrate 53,9% but the graph is actually way above 54 and in July T winrate is 53,9% and the graph is way below 54%... | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:18 doko100 wrote: explain this to me please? The reason no one is explaining this to you, is because it literally on the graph, tells you how the trendlines are formed. | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:18 doko100 wrote: Look at the overall win rate. In january terran has a 53,9% win rate but the curve is somewhere at around 55% and in july terran has a 53.8% win rate but the curve is at 52%. It makes this graph useless because when you have a first look just the line that is drawn makes it look alot more imbalanced than it is.. explain this to me please? yeah it's bullshit, when zerg had a higher overall win rate than terran in june the line still showed an almost 3% advantage for terran. like I said soooo misleading Seriously? Read the graph; ffs. It says right on the graph that the trend lines are a moving average over three months. It's not supposed to line up with the top of the bar, which represents only results from that month. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:21 nam nam wrote: Uhm what? The way the curves are made makes it seem less imbalanced if anything thanks to it working to lessen the fluctuations. but the main problem here is the y axis, the line even shows T as favored over Z when Z had a higher win rate. if you use a 0-100 y axis the problem is non existent. this is just outragous because it makes things look a lot worse than they are and our community already has enough balance whine everywhere. thread should be deleted imo or graphs remade so they are less misleading | ||
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Mentymion
Germany259 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:17 Vehemus wrote: These don't mean anything at all. You could have looked at the state of PvZ in February and decided that Protoss was overpowered and Zerg can't win without a major change to the matchup. Since those February winrates, what's happened? Protoss: +Charge Zealot buff +Archons became massive +Archon range buff +Immortal range buff +Mothership acceleration buff +Sentry build time buff +Warp prism buff -Blink research +30 seconds -Pylon power radius decreased by .5 -Warpgate research +20 seconds -Archon Toilet nerfed -Amulet removed Zerg: +Spore crawlers root time decreased by 6 +Overseer cost change +Ultralisk build time =Infestor fungal changed, buffed, then nerfed -Neural Parasite range nerf -Contaminate energy nerf -Infestor speed nerf If anything, Protoss has received far more favorable changes in the last eight months, outside of the Amulet removal. Yet their winrate in PvZ has dropped to the lowest in SC2 history the last two months. The game changes. Strategies change. Look at Brood War race winrates even when no patches were implemented for years. It's getting to the point where Terran has been on top for so long that it's fair to consider something may have to change, but even that isn't a sure thing. - Warpgate research +20 seconds - Amulet removed - Fungal buff through that time.... Don't know what you are pointing at, but these changes fucked Protoss so hard you hardly believe it. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On November 07 2011 04:23 TerlocSG wrote: The Y-axis kind of makes the graphs misleading. :/ It makes the difference in win % look a lot bigger than it really is. It's good information, and I'm not saying it isn't true, just making the view from 40 to 60% makes a 5% difference look huge. Hopefully protoss can pick it up this month. A 5% difference IS huge. Not surprised by these numbers, T>Z>P has been the case for a while now, I'm interested to see the results of the korea only rates | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
Why don't you credit him in the OP! | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
Don't confuse peoples inability to interpret them with bad graphs  | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:26 Telcontar wrote: It's sad that Blizzard won't give a hick about these stats let alone see it. They're just happy with their 'adjusted' ladder numbers. Sigh........ for god's sake why would they? the numbers are perfectly fine, maybe ZvP is slightly off but that could change and the sample size is really small aswell, stop being so ignorant. a 47-53% difference is almost nothing, its impossible to have 50-50% in a games that is based on individual skill.. | ||
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