EPTPaying some prize money years after deadline is a joke. Worst part is that you cannot give an example of what you are doing to solve the problem. ". Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities." is NOT enough.
Prize money, eSports, Lannisters - Page 4
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Loooui
Sweden348 Posts
Paying some prize money years after deadline is a joke. Worst part is that you cannot give an example of what you are doing to solve the problem. ". Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities." is NOT enough. | ||
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Grettin
42384 Posts
Are you talking about ESL in general or just IEM? Because i know people who has been "waiting" for their money/gear for a months (not just 3) and even years from ESL tournaments. The thread Cloud made, made it very clear that ESL is one of the worst organizers when it comes to paying out prizes and there was many examples of this. To be honest, if you have been around in e-sports, either as a spectator or as a player, this shouldn't come as a surprise. So is there a huge communication problems between the teams/players and ESL or are is it simply ESL's poor handle on things? I really hope ESL can turn this around and i hope for IEM's sake especially, that the prizes will be paid "in time" and without any problems. Especially this is something that baffles me. On November 03 2011 22:16 Grubby wrote: That's not true, I got paid in 2010 for IEM 2007, about 3 years after I got 3rd in it. TT This clearly shows that someone is doing a poor job. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:11 Loooui wrote: This is by NO means an acceptable excuse. There were many examples in Clouds thread that was just downright disgusting behaviour from ESL. Just an example here, Grubby had to wait 3 years (LOL) for a win from 2007 before he got prize money from ESL. Like tyler said, money actually declines in value over time. You guys need to revalue the prizes after inflation when it goes over 90 days, otherwise you don´t pay your debts. Paying some prize money years after deadline is a joke. Worst part is that you cannot give an example of what you are doing to solve the problem. ". Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities." is NOT enough. It's 2011 (almost 2012) now buddy. Citing an incident almost 5 years ago is hardly proof that today's ESL is running things poorly. And yes, as their revenue picks up and their payout system becomes more efficient, their day to day activity will catch them up. Also, for the record, their outstanding payments represent 0.46% of what they have currently paid out in total, they really don't have far to go to "catch up." | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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kelkjo25
United States6 Posts
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Edtjuh
3 Posts
Thank you for contacting me Mr. ESL-Admin. They has provided me with the information about the prize and has payed me out. Case closed guys. | ||
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Treetop
United States140 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:05 Klondikebar wrote: And they are...90 days. The ones that aren't have been called out and are dying. Like Carmac said in the OP, the vast majority of the money owed is still within the contracted time-frame. That's the bit that I am having a problem with. We all know the IdrAs and the Stephonos will get their big novelty checks. The problem I have are people like Cloud, and Darkforce and all lesser known players that bust their ass on the weekly cups from around the world to keep their lights on. Sure, thousands upon thousands are being paid or will be shortly. But $150 here, $200 there is the difference between staying home and practicing to make their aspirations a reality and then going to work at Home Depot 40 hours a week so they can have a plate of food to eat. That's where my problem lies. | ||
Carmac
Poland375 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:48 Kluey wrote: It sounds like you're trying to cover up not paying. Obviously either you're lying or Cloud and many other progamers are lying. Where did I contradict what Cloud wrote? | ||
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PsiKiller
Canada16 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:05 Klondikebar wrote: And they are...90 days. The ones that aren't have been called out and are dying. Like Carmac said in the OP, the vast majority of the money owed is still within the contracted time-frame. What they're telling us and what the truth is are two different things. It may not be too far apart, but I guarantee you that they'll tell you nothing else. They need people to believe they're as close to on time with their payments as they can, they need to try to stay in the good light. But too much negativity has come out directed towards them to believe it. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:17 Treetop wrote: That's the bit that I am having a problem with. We all know the IdrAs and the Stephonos will get their big novelty checks. The problem I have are people like Cloud, and Darkforce and all lesser known players that bust their ass on the weekly cups from around the world to keep their lights on. Sure, thousands upon thousands are being paid or will be shortly. But $150 here, $200 there is the difference between staying home and practicing to make their aspirations a reality and then going to work at Home Depot 40 hours a week so they can have a plate of food to eat. That's where my problem lies. And all of the evidence and testimony indicates that any delays in paying them are exceptions, not the norm. Tournament organizers are not downs ridden idiots. They got their positions because they do their jobs well. They are not evil maniacs laughing in their volcano lairs about how they tricked stupid players into performing for free. Mistakes happen and there are some bad tournaments. But lambasting good tournamnts (I believe IdrA said you should support ESL on the last SotG), is absolutely silly and is more likely to damage esports than correct any problems. | ||
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actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
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Loooui
Sweden348 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:14 Klondikebar wrote: It's 2011 (almost 2012) now buddy. Citing an incident almost 5 years ago is hardly proof that today's ESL is running things poorly. And yes, as their revenue picks up and their payout system becomes more efficient, their day to day activity will catch them up. Also, for the record, their outstanding payments represent 0.46% of what they have currently paid out in total, they really don't have far to go to "catch up." Oh so since they dont pay for 3 years you cannot be citing it? They paid back the money ONE year ago, so i wouldn´t call it outdated by any means. Also, how can you be so sure that their payout system becomes more efficient? What kind of proof do you have? Do you work there or what? If its been like this for years, and they think the problem basically solves itself is just naive. Also where did you get the number 0.46% from? would be interesting to know since a lot of progamers came out and told us that ESL still owed them money. | ||
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YounKa
Poland23 Posts
I understand and kinda approve the first point - all the paper work can delay things significantly, so setting an 90 days payment delay is reasonable and ok in general. But the rest... the rest is just soaping communities eyes. Ok, it's cool that ESL payed 10 million $ in price money and it's "more than everyone", but how much of it was really delayed, kinda last years cash? Not the mass matters in these days, but the quality, so either chill with the amounts of tournaments or hire more people to manage the cash flow - that would be my lil solution to this problem. I find statement about people not leaving their bank accounts just silly, not only in the context of ESL, but all the "problematic" tournaments - take the data in the application for the tournament, do not let the players even touch their keyboards without that. I think this is more than manageable, and if not - again, hire more ppls to do the job  And for the last - The average prize money delay differs between individual tournaments, but it's not as bad as it's made out to be. So, how bad is it? Why is so many people complaining, that in fact IT IS as bad as it's made out to be. And in general, i would like to know (as many pointed out earlier), what happens with a progamer that waits more than 90 days for their money? How do you handle that kind of situation? Where can progames go to talk with someone competent about it (because that seem to be the worst case in my eyes)? | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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J_D
United States102 Posts
That way, it is easier to hold tournament organizers legally responsible if they do not pay out the prize money as promised, and means that progamers can't complain if they don't provide the necessary information since it would all be explained in the contract. | ||
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dsll
United Kingdom143 Posts
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:22 Loooui wrote: Oh so since they dont pay for 3 years you cannot be citing it? They payed back the money ONE year ago, so i wouldn´t call it outdated by any means. Also, how can you be so sure that their payout system becomes more efficient? What kind of proof do you have? Do you work there or what? If its been like this for years, and they think the problem basically solves itself is just naive. Also where did you get the number 0.46% from? would be interesting to know since a lot of progamers came out and told us that ESL still owed them money. Convert Euros to dollars and add it to their current USD "debt." They owe approximately $46,000. 46000/10000000 = ~0.46% And that problem with Grubby stemmed from how things were run back in 2007. Documents get lost and things get forgotten. It's not surprising that once it fell off the radar it took the 2010 ESL to fix it. If anything that's indicative of how the improvements in the league have allowed them to catch up and correct past mistakes. My proof that their system is good and getting better? Players keep going to their tournaments. | ||
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:22 YounKa wrote: Ok, it's cool that ESL payed 10 million $ in price money and it's "more than everyone", but how much of it was really delayed, kinda last years cash? Not the mass matters in these days, but the quality, so either chill with the amounts of tournaments or hire more people to manage the cash flow - that would be my lil solution to this problem. When they stop doing tournaments, they don't generate money. It's not like money just magically flows in... Also, "hire more people". They cut a lot of costs including personnel to stay operational. I don't know how to read financial reports but seeing big numbers behind the minus in the Turtle Entertainment (the company behind ESL) financial report of 2009 doesn't indicate that they have a lot of money laying around. | ||
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Carmac
Poland375 Posts
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
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