EPTPrize money, eSports, Lannisters - Page 12
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Paladia
802 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:15 zaii wrote: How many does ESL hosts? MLG hosts 6 live events and a couple online tournament/show matches. Lets see.... 6 IEM live events.. 3 live EPS finals Gazillion online tournaments and show matches ^^ Ok maybe not gazillionbut at least 12-15 a month. | ||
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Satiinifi
Finland192 Posts
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:20 Frankon wrote: Lets see.... 6 IEM live events.. 3 live EPS finals Gazillion online tournaments and show matches ^^ Ok maybe not gazillionbut at least 12-15 a month. I don't get why they are hosting so many when they don't have the money for it. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
I mean, look at it, ESL is one of the biggest brands in esports, everyone knows about them, they host hundreds of good tournaments and they can't throw out 30k euros? It is just clear how there's a "bubble" in esports right now. Everyone threw some cash into it so we see bunch of new teams, organizations etc, but it seems like big sponsors aren't really buying it yet. And once all those smaller sponsors stop paying it will all go back to where it started. | ||
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Rivkeh
United States58 Posts
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D.Devil
Germany227 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:29 bLah. wrote: Silly situation but I'm kinda sad that they only owe 30k euros. Because if they can't get that kind of money quickly then we can clearly see how fragile esports scene really is. ESL owes way more than 30 000 Euro overall – that is just the money owed to SC2 players. Obviously, it wouldn't be fair to privilege them over other games. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:29 bLah. wrote: Silly situation but I'm kinda sad that they only owe 30k euros. Because if they can't get that kind of money quickly then we can clearly see how fragile esports scene really is. I mean, look at it, ESL is one of the biggest brands in esports, everyone knows about them, they host hundreds of good tournaments and they can't throw out 30k euros? It is just clear how there's a "bubble" in esports right now. Everyone threw some cash into it so we see bunch of new teams, organizations etc, but it seems like big sponsors aren't really buying it yet. And once all those smaller sponsors stop paying it will all go back to where it started. Having no debts whatsoever is the model we should be trying to achieve but you can't say that having a small debt is a problem... Like, you are sad because they owe a small sum and not a big one? 30k is an amount of money that a business can owe without being too concerned. Of course, they should be paying the players as a priority but from a financial perspective it's not that bad. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:37 xtfftc wrote: Having no debts whatsoever is the model we should be trying to achieve but you can't say that having a small debt is a problem... Like, you are sad because they owe a small sum and not a big one? 30k is an amount of money that a business can owe without being too concerned. Of course, they should be paying the players as a priority but from a financial perspective it's not that bad. I didn't say that in a way that I want them to have bigger debt. I said that I'm kinda bummed that they can't get out of trouble with such a small debt. I mean, if an organisation like ESL can't just throw 30k euros out after this series of accusations then we should all take a step back when talking about huge growth of esports. | ||
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
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IMStyle
Canada52 Posts
I said before that MLG can pay out on the day of, and people argue that MLG is smaller... Well then, problem solved if esl stops hosting so much tournaments and let other organizations that can handle it take over the market share. Are you saying you expect a local grocery store to pay their employees on time but its ok for Apple to hold paychecks because they are a multibillion dollar organization with a lot of more important things to take care of? If you can't handle lots of tournaments .....dont. For those blaming it on Carmac... this issue existed in the esl corporate culture long before him. He is addressing the issue the best he can, he not the boss or owner of the company, there is only so much he can do. But a lot of times, owners use people like him as a scapegoat...if the issue gets out of hand..so for Carmac, we should still support esl and focus our rage on his bosses. | ||
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otacon
Germany45 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:29 bLah. wrote: That is a strange conclusion u drew there. Please don't nail me down at the numbers, but isn't it more reasonable that ESL can't throw out 30,000€ quickly _because_ they already payed (and according to Carmac continue to every week) out $10,000,000 in prize money.Silly situation but I'm kinda sad that they only owe 30k euros. Because if they can't get that kind of money quickly then we can clearly see how fragile esports scene really is. I mean, look at it, ESL is one of the biggest brands in esports, everyone knows about them, they host hundreds of good tournaments and they can't throw out 30k euros? | ||
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CptGrackSparrow
United States278 Posts
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Blindlad
Ireland19 Posts
Hello tl readers! Look at your eSports manager, not back to me, now back at your manager, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he made more game of thrones references he could be like me. Look down, now back up. What's that in my hand? It's the money we promised to pay Cloud. Look again! The money is now paid. Anything is possible if you're Carmac! I'm killing ESPORTS. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On November 05 2011 03:17 Blindlad wrote: My impressions after reading the OP. Read in the old spice guy voice: Hello tl readers! Look at your eSports manager, not back to me, now back at your manager, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he made more game of thrones references he could be like me. Look down, now back up. What's that in my hand? It's the money we promised to pay Cloud. Look again! The money is now paid. Anything is possible if you're Carmac! I'm killing ESPORTS. Hmm... who should I respect more, the transparent, hard-working ESPORTS figure, or the clever poster on TL with only 15 posts? | ||
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Blindlad
Ireland19 Posts
On November 05 2011 03:26 zarepath wrote: Hmm... who should I respect more, the transparent, hard-working ESPORTS figure, or the clever poster on TL with only 15 posts? Or you could've realised it was intended as a lighthearted joke, and I wholy approve of Carmac : ) | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On November 05 2011 00:26 IMStyle wrote: You guys do know they esl is an organization that profits from esports right? They certainly arnt doing it for just a good cause. They should certainly not be behind in payments for so many months. It was only stated that the IEMs are 90 days period, the rest are late because of sponsors...if sponsors can't pay up before the tournament ..they they obviously can't afford to sponsor the tournament...they should sponsor one when they can afford to. It doesn't make sense to host something, promise a prize then tell the winner you havnt gotten paid yet. Your job is the pay the winners and get money from the sponsors. The pro gamers job is to play in a tourney and expect to get paid for the prize that they are entitled to without needing to wait more then 3 months. If that was the case, there would be considerably less tournaments to support the players at all; regardless of payment schedule, it lessens the overall impact and contribution to the scene. If having less money and less involvement is a good thing for eSports, then I guess it's better that way. And I'm sorry, the players are entitled to their money, sure, but why does everyone seem to insist that waiting for the money is unjust or something? The players entered a tournament that was organized for their benefit; why or how does this sense of entitlement come about? If I win a prize for some type of contest or tournament, I'm bound by whatever stipulations exist within that framework. I can't enter, and complain after the fact, because I knew or should have known full well what I was getting myself into. If players are concerned that they will not be able to rely on the payment from tournaments, they can simply choose to not enter. As people keep saying, players should boycott. You know what that does? Devalues the tournament's ability to create a product worth sponsoring, and sends sponsors to either another organization that will do the exact same thing, or removes that company from eSports for good. How or why is that a good thing? Idealism is nice, but is probabilistically impractical and shortsighted. On November 05 2011 00:26 IMStyle wrote: I said before that MLG can pay out on the day of, and people argue that MLG is smaller... It's not that MLG is smaller; MLG has raised over $50 million in venture capital to date, irregardless of their profitability (many people saw their $10 million round of funding last December as concerning to whether they are going to be able to make money). That, and along with some of their sponsors, they obviously can afford to do what they have done in regards to payments for players. If MLG was forced to rely on the same formula as every other organization and didn't have the "benefit" of venture capital, they would be in a very similar boat. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:20 Frankon wrote: Lets see.... 6 IEM live events.. 3 live EPS finals Gazillion online tournaments and show matches ^^ Ok maybe not gazillionbut at least 12-15 a month. This is only for sc2, there are a LOT of games and events and tournaments in the ESL. Probably hundreds every month, and dozens with prize money. | ||
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pHaRSiDE
United States752 Posts
On November 05 2011 03:45 Nouar wrote: This is only for sc2, there are a LOT of games and events and tournaments in the ESL. Probably hundreds every month, and dozens with prize money. I actually remember you from WC3L :D. | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:05 Klondikebar wrote: And they are...90 days. The ones that aren't have been called out and are dying. Like Carmac said in the OP, the vast majority of the money owed is still within the contracted time-frame. Carmac is only talking about for IEM when he says that. And IEM being ESL's most prestigious league youd expect that their time frames for it would be off. I rarely heard (if ever) anyone complain about IEM in the other thread, it was the smaller ESL tournaments which are way behind and carmac made a post about it later on Read the entire thread ^^ | ||
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