EPTIn Sweden it happens "all the time" (it happens, it is not uncommon - is the gist of it) that companies pay their suppliers 3 months or more since delivery.
Prize money, eSports, Lannisters - Page 11
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10or10
Sweden517 Posts
In Sweden it happens "all the time" (it happens, it is not uncommon - is the gist of it) that companies pay their suppliers 3 months or more since delivery. | ||
th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 10:10 Korok wrote: Hello Carmac Back in February 2010, my team had got 2nd place in this tournament: http://www.esl.eu/eu/ems/season5/dota I have yet to receive any prize money despite many of my multiple attempts to contact the administration and being promised payout. Blight Gaming/emazing? Money was paid, emailing you. | ||
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rANDY
United Kingdom748 Posts
On November 04 2011 17:29 rANDY wrote: 90 days?? I wish. I've been waiting since March 2011 for my prize money from ESL (EPS UK Season 4) Here is the response I got when I asked about my unpaid prize money about a week ago. "messioso #2 | 26/10/11 00:20 Hello rANDY, We are aware of the issue. All outstanding prize money is paid in chronological order and EPS UK Season 4 has not gotten to the top of the list yet. When the time comes for the payments to be made you will be notified. Best regards, messioso, ESL Admin" If money is paid out in chronological order, and this hasnt been paid out in 6 months. Doesn't the less than 90 days mean nothing? Either this reply from the ESL Admin or Carmac's opening post is a lie. How can things be paid out in chronological order and under 90 days, but I am still waiting after 6 months?! | ||
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Derity
Germany2952 Posts
On November 04 2011 17:41 rANDY wrote: Here is the response I got when I asked about my unpaid prize money about a week ago. "messioso #2 | 26/10/11 00:20 Hello rANDY, We are aware of the issue. All outstanding prize money is paid in chronological order and EPS UK Season 4 has not gotten to the top of the list yet. When the time comes for the payments to be made you will be notified. Best regards, messioso, ESL Admin" If money is paid out in chronological order, and this hasnt been paid out in 6 months. Doesn't the less than 90 days mean nothing? Either this reply from the ESL Admin or Carmac's opening post is a lie. How can things be paid out in chronological order and under 90 days, but I am still waiting after 6 months?! you should read more carefully. Carmac states this for IEM, not ESL. He admits that ESL events are delayed. | ||
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th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 17:41 rANDY wrote: Here is the response I got when I asked about my unpaid prize money about a week ago. "messioso #2 | 26/10/11 00:20 Hello rANDY, We are aware of the issue. All outstanding prize money is paid in chronological order and EPS UK Season 4 has not gotten to the top of the list yet. When the time comes for the payments to be made you will be notified. Best regards, messioso, ESL Admin" If money is paid out in chronological order, and this hasnt been paid out in 6 months. Doesn't the less than 90 days mean nothing? Either this reply from the ESL Admin or Carmac's opening post is a lie. How can things be paid out in chronological order and under 90 days, but I am still waiting after 6 months?! At the moment only IEM is back on track with 90 days. | ||
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rANDY
United Kingdom748 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On November 04 2011 17:45 th3rogue wrote: At the moment only IEM is back on track with 90 days. Basically it looks like the main problem is with national's EPS (i dont mean the NA one... but UK,Ger, PL and so on..). They seems like adding another layer of red tape that slows down all processes. | ||
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Blattdorf
Poland38 Posts
If e-sports is to grow, it needs to be less English-America-centric (by that, I mean the language/s). Sure, a lot of people know English and it's not like most commentators bust out their dictionaries Faulkner-style. However, making a localized stream for a big tournament like IEM, MLG or Dreamhack, or even the up-coming ASUS ROG could not only help draw in more people who don't know English and/or SC2 or other e-sports, but also boost confidence of potential local advertisers (which could help with prize funding). If you want e-sports to go mainstream, you need to localize a little bit more. Localized streams, localized ads (if only those that run on TV in a given country), maybe even some localized player promotion (for example, I don't watch football, but if the Polish team is playing, I tend to tune in and root for them). It might take some growing pains to do that all that, but hey, Gretech has Korean commentators running a localized stream for Korean viewers during MLG (I seem to remember something like that), so it is possible. You just need to ask some local commentators (like Morglum, for example, he was awesome during the European Battle.net Invitational), provide them with a video feed and have at it. I, for one, would tune in to a Polish stream (like I did during the Invitational). | ||
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Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
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th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 18:10 Blattdorf wrote: This post will be a little hectic, but what I want to talk about is fueled by my impressions from the European Battle.net Invitational, which was awesome. If e-sports is to grow, it needs to be less English-America-centric (by that, I mean the language/s). Sure, a lot of people know English and it's not like most commentators bust out their dictionaries Faulkner-style. However, making a localized stream for a big tournament like IEM, MLG or Dreamhack, or even the up-coming ASUS ROG could not only help draw in more people who don't know English and/or SC2 or other e-sports, but also boost confidence of potential local advertisers (which could help with prize funding). If you want e-sports to go mainstream, you need to localize a little bit more. Localized streams, localized ads (if only those that run on TV in a given country), maybe even some localized player promotion (for example, I don't watch football, but if the Polish team is playing, I tend to tune in and root for them). It might take some growing pains to do that all that, but hey, Gretech has Korean commentators running a localized stream for Korean viewers during MLG (I seem to remember something like that), so it is possible. You just need to ask some local commentators (like Morglum, for example, he was awesome during the European Battle.net Invitational), provide them with a video feed and have at it. I, for one, would tune in to a Polish stream (like I did during the Invitational). IEM usually has localized streams in at least English, French, German and Russian. IIRC we've also had Spanish and Portugese before. It largely depends on suitable partners to do it though  | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
"2) ESL owes prize money. What Cloud wrote is true (at least as regards the ESL part). In total ESL owes 32,870 EUR and 400 USD to StarCraft II players. " Because this number is probably just for IEM, and not for the total that ESL (!) owes to Starcraft II Players (!). So this number is very missleading. The 2 EPS Season in germany alone are like 22k€ that havent been paid out yet. | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
So it has 90 days to send them to the right EPS organizer who also have 90 days to pay... So we have located the problem.... EPS's are withholding money^^. | ||
Carmac
Poland375 Posts
On November 04 2011 10:46 Delphi wrote: I have to say, what Carmac says isnt complety true, not to attack him personally but: he says IEM Cologne (leaving that out), China and NY arent paid out yet. NY: 21.000$ + China: 21.000$ = 42.000$ ~ 30.413€ --> what Carmac refers to but there are way more ESL events which haven't been paid out only three examples: Torneo ESL StarCraft II in July (4 months ago), HasuObs #1, Socke #2 --> 9.350€ (~$13.370) ESL Pro Series Germany Season 17 (12 months ago) Socke #1, ClouD #2 --> 5.500€ (~$7595) ESL Pro Series Germany Season 18 (4 months ago) Socke #1, HasuObs #2 -->6.000€ (~$8285) --> only those three: 20.850€ (~$28792) im also aware of the fact that those didnt happen too long ago, but still, its just a fact that esl owe's players a lot more. but its nice that carmac is open to the community and explains the things, and i guess its understandable to some extent. im aware of the fact, that those three tournaments maybe aren't in the responsibility of carmac, but still they are ESL events I did not add Cologne, Guangzhou and New York to the total because they're still "on schedule," within their 3 month time frames. And no, they have not been paid out yet. | ||
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razorblade79
Germany79 Posts
On November 04 2011 18:57 Carmac wrote: I did not add Cologne, Guangzhou and New York to the total because they're still "on schedule," within their 3 month time frames. And no, they have not been paid out yet. The only thing I wonder is why the money isn't available BEFORE a given tournament; maybe I'm delusional but in a perfect world everything you need at a tournament would be available at said tournament. Why isn't the money by sponsors paid upfront? If something goes wrong they can still sue you afterwards. The players are the most important thing about it and they should always come first. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
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Carmac
Poland375 Posts
On November 04 2011 19:00 razorblade79 wrote: The only thing I wonder is why the money isn't available BEFORE a given tournament; maybe I'm delusional but in a perfect world everything you need at a tournament would be available at said tournament. Why isn't the money by sponsors paid upfront? If something goes wrong they can still sue you afterwards. The players are the most important thing about it and they should always come first. This is not directly the case with Intel since they're the best sponsor I've ever dealt with, but... And it's not always easy for companies to free up a lot of cash "at once" [what defines "a lot of cash" to a company obviously differs depending on the size of it and its liquidity]. Also, in most companies the the guy that signed the esports sponsorship deal has a boss that will sometimes shift budgets to different quarters, etc. Lots of things can happen. Sometimes there's a marketing agency that serves as a buffer between the actual money spender and the sponsored company. It's not as simple as it seems. I found out already when I was working at SK Gaming. They ended up taking a sponsor to court (and winning). | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On November 04 2011 19:17 Carmac wrote: It's not as simple as it seems. I found out already when I was working at SK Gaming. They ended up taking a sponsor to court (and winning). Doesn't that indirectly imply the players should take the tournament organisers to court (and win?). (not speaking about IEM as that seems to be within the timeframe stated in their rules, but other ESL events / other tournaments who have huge delays) | ||
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ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
It's nice that you go out and address the community directly, and it is good to see some general information on how the payment is done from someone on the inside. However, I don't really feel that you address the issue: why is IEM so much slower than other tournaments? (It seems like you admit that IEM is indeed slower.) And what will you do about it? You list a number of things that can delay the money coming to the player: taxes, teams, bank account information etc. None of these are specific for IEM. How come other tournaments like MLG and GSL are never a year behind schedule? The one thing would be the if the German tax system is more involved (which I can imagine it is..  ) but I don't think you claim that the tax report is the main reason for the delays?Until you address exactly what other tourneys are doing that IEM is not, I feel it will be hard to improve this issue. What do you think? Best of luck, thanks for community contact and long live ESPORTS. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 04 2011 13:52 TBone- wrote: Keep in mind, MLG doesn't host nearly as many tournaments as ESL does. How many does ESL hosts? MLG hosts 6 live events and a couple online tournament/show matches. | ||
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