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On November 04 2011 04:57 Carmac wrote:
b) ESL is not blameworthy every single time (not to take blame away or anything, but to shed more light on the issue). A team or participant registering for ESL tournaments normally specifies the recipient of prize money - it can be a person or a company ("pro gaming team"). It can happen that the team withholds it from the player(s) without them being aware of it. I was told about such an issue today, actually (you'd be surprised who…).
Let the speculations begin!
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A Lannister always pays his debts.
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On November 04 2011 05:07 Carmac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 05:03 Adebisi wrote:
Can you explain what ESL is doing to make this go away? Or at least your goals as to how fast money should be paid out, and when you think your events will be able to pay out that quickly? It really depends on what money goes in, what goes out. Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities.
The plan is to eventually have ESL pay out in a normal, preordained pay window (90 days I think you mentioned) but there's no time frame as to how long that will take to be implemented? Is there a plan to keep at least teams/competitors updated on the issue?
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Starcraft 2 Players Association anyone? S.P.A.
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On November 04 2011 05:16 SnapCall wrote:
So you are saying part of the problem is not only paperwork, but also that you don't have the money in time?
If so, how did you get in a situation where you don't have the prizemoney 90 days after the completion? If you think you can "catch up" just by normal day to day business the company can't run that bad, right?
ESL has grown considerably more multifaceted over the years. Throwing the amount of events they organize, in all the different countries that they do is going to be slowed down through red tape, certain accounting practices, general overhead and a lot of other factors.
He also confirmed the common practice of sponsors paying in chunks. Somewhere in all the transactions they have to deal with, for the money they receive and dish out through bills, salaries and prize money, they were bound to be short at various stages.
Saying their day to day activities will catch them up means that they have adjusted their model to use supplanted revenue from whatever new sources they've worked towards.
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On November 04 2011 05:16 SnapCall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 05:07 Carmac wrote:On November 04 2011 05:03 Adebisi wrote:
Can you explain what ESL is doing to make this go away? Or at least your goals as to how fast money should be paid out, and when you think your events will be able to pay out that quickly? It really depends on what money goes in, what goes out. Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities. So you are saying part of the problem is not only paperwork, but also that you don't have the money in time? If so, how did you get in a situation where you don't have the prizemoney 90 days after the completion? If you think you can "catch up" just by normal day to day business the company can't run that bad, right?
They have the money, did you not read how sponsors pay in installments? Surprise surprise, most companies aren't too keen on throwing millions of dollars around in one massive chunk.
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On November 04 2011 05:23 SillyPrincess wrote:
A Lannister always pays his debts.
Still the bad guys, that's the point.
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It would be nice if people from the industry who have current (not past) issues with ESL not paying/delaying prize money post in this thread with as much detail as possible, so that Carmac would be able to address them in front of everyone.
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I think the perfect and only responsible way to resolve this entire issue is one simple thing.
Do not hold events. Do not hold Cups or any competition unless you have money to pay. Waiting for chunks and quarterly earnings is at best irresponsible and worst, almost criminal.
Get the money in the bank, announce your event. Take your thirty days or sixty or however long it takes to clear up the bureaucratic red tape, and get players paid. Do not host any event with nonexistent prize money. If it hurts your bottom line for a couple of months, that sucks. However you shouldn't be toying with your employees like this under any circumstance. Until changes like this are made, known tournaments like ESL, or any tournament, I personally will never support them. Sure, I'm a nobody. One person not watching or buying a sponsored product doesn't matter. I am a person of morals, however. Straighten out your business and then you'll have mine again.
Not just to ESL, but to all leagues.
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Also wondering what happens when you go over the 90 day, self-imposed time limit.
Another major concern was how so many pros were iterating that they had to consistently hunt down the tournament managers on their own to collect prizes rather than having the tournaments take responsibility and contacting their champions. How is this dealt with?
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LOL so this time limit has no real power? HAHAHA
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Isnt Extreme Masters owned by Intel?
Is Intel serious about this?! One of the largest processor companies worth billions of dollars? So lame.
If you do something do it right.
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On November 04 2011 05:27 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 05:16 SnapCall wrote:On November 04 2011 05:07 Carmac wrote:On November 04 2011 05:03 Adebisi wrote:
Can you explain what ESL is doing to make this go away? Or at least your goals as to how fast money should be paid out, and when you think your events will be able to pay out that quickly? It really depends on what money goes in, what goes out. Most likely ESL will be catching up slowly via normal ESL day to day activities. So you are saying part of the problem is not only paperwork, but also that you don't have the money in time? If so, how did you get in a situation where you don't have the prizemoney 90 days after the completion? If you think you can "catch up" just by normal day to day business the company can't run that bad, right? They have the money, did you not read how sponsors pay in installments? Surprise surprise, most companies aren't too keen on throwing millions of dollars around in one massive chunk.
How does "most companies (sponsors) pay in chunks on a quarterly basis (90 days)" explain almost a year delay on EPS Germany prizemoney?
I'm sorry but you don't have the money if you haven't payed out 8 months after your own deadline...
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Is it just me, or is throwing out a cheesy pop culture reference at the end of such a serious topic kind of belittling the whole subject?
At least have your own people be in charge of keeping players up to date and tracking them down for payment. They should never have to do it themselves. That is like a mail in rebate scam.
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On November 04 2011 05:33 Enhancer_ wrote:
Also wondering what happens when you go over the 90 day, self-imposed time limit.
Another major concern was how so many pros were iterating that they had to consistently hunt down the tournament managers on their own to collect prizes rather than having the tournaments take responsibility and contacting their champions. How is this dealt with?
In most of our tournaments players are contacted soon after a tournament by email for their details. In my experience, many of the times a player says they were not contacted, they were but did not see it in their email (or additionally ESL site message) etc. For example Darkforce's Dailymotion prize money is unpaid because he did not see the emails (for which I have now contacted him to correct).
For some (e.g. EPS, and IEM at least in the past, not sure with the new format) the prize money details are given in advance by the players or managers.
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On November 04 2011 05:23 SillyPrincess wrote:
A Lannister always pays his debts.
The ESL on the contrary...
What a stupid idea to mix a reference to popular culture in a topic of this importance.
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Has the prizemoney for the WC3L been paid out completely?
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Sorry Carmac, I love you man, but...
It does not matter that you pay most of your prizes and that you paid out over 10mil in prizes so far - people will call you out on the unpaid stuff and will remember ESL for the negative stuff untill it is fixed.
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Edit: Ignore this post. It has been fixed with the ESL admins.
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I'm sorry Carmac, but mud does need to be flung! You boys need to fix your business model. If MLG can pay out right away - you should be able to aswell and they aggresivly seek out the people that they owe money which doesnt seem the case with esl. Money loses value over time these days so the longer you wait the less it is actually worth.
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EPT
