EPTPrize money, eSports, Lannisters - Page 3
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:46 Edtjuh wrote: Hello, I played an ESL hosted tournament 1.5 years ago and i won the cup. Till this day, i still haven't received my ESL prize money from it, even though i made support-tickets on the ESL site and contacting admins, explaining my current situation with it. So far, nobody at ESL could give me a proper explanation other then "We're paying out soon, dont worry about it". Its been 1.5 years ... Reading this thread, and Clouds thread, just shows that the ESL prize-payout system is one big joke. EMS 5 and 6 DoW2, Dragon Alliance? Has been paid. Contacting you to clarify. | ||
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th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:48 Kluey wrote: It sounds like you're trying to cover up not paying. Obviously either you're lying or Cloud and many other progamers are lying. Where do you believe he has implied that? | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:35 SnapCall wrote: How does "most companies (sponsors) pay in chunks on a quarterly basis (90 days)" explain almost a year delay on EPS Germany prizemoney? I'm sorry but you don't have the money if you haven't payed out 8 months after your own deadline... Well according to his post the vast majority of the money owed is still within the 90 day period. And he also said that leagues like the MLG that have stockpiles of their own money have an easier/faster time paying out. Eventually all the big leagues will be like that but right now a lot of our leagues are still living tournament to tournament. I'm honestly not entirely sure where I stand on this issue but I'm definitely not happy with all the people who clearly have no idea what's going on double fisting pitchforks. | ||
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tabbott26
United Kingdom379 Posts
On November 04 2011 04:57 Carmac wrote: It can happen that the team withholds it from the player(s) without them being aware of it. I was told about such an issue today, actually (you'd be surprised who…) I'll put 50 quid on it being Idra and EG... | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:48 Kluey wrote: It sounds like you're trying to cover up not paying. Obviously either you're lying or Cloud and many other progamers are lying. ESL does pay, just not on time(wayyyyy to much time) and thats the problem. Stop trying to make it something its not | ||
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Edtjuh
3 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:53 th3rogue wrote: EMS 5 and 6 DoW2, Dragon Alliance? Has been paid. Contacting you to clarify. Thank you. EMS 6 hasn't been payed out, EMS 5 did. Heh, after such a long time i get noticed here, instead of ESL. Ironic ... | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
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Dexx
Germany175 Posts
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th3rogue
Germany683 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:56 Edtjuh wrote: Thank you. EMS 6 hasn't been payed out, EMS 5 did. Heh, after such a long time i get noticed here, instead of ESL. Ironic ... Yes it has. Emailed you. | ||
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FlyingDJ
Germany153 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:47 DISHU wrote: I'm sorry Carmac, but mud does need to be flung! You boys need to fix your business model. If MLG can pay out right away - you should be able to aswell and they aggresivly seek out the people that they owe money which doesnt seem the case with esl. Money loses value over time these days so the longer you wait the less it is actually worth. I will stop explaining esports business on TL as it seems to fall on deaf ears, but here goes one last time: I am not saying MLG do not have a sustainable business model, I will however say that a company that gets a 10 million dollar investment in 2010 will of course be able to pay out prize money that is not much more than 50k total right away in 2011. Ask the console players if they get paid out right away, and the past contenders if they have been. Look at what GotFrag has become to see how investments can go wrong. These things happen, and a company in existence for more than 10 years which contributed a great deal to the development of esports in the world will experience their fair share of it. At least try to look at the business side of things for a moment. Stop hosting tournaments? Who's going to benefit from that, surely neither players nor spectators. The delays are bad, but they don't destroy what esports is like, in fact over years in the past where delays and non-payment was worse they sure did not. | ||
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:57 Dexx wrote: Carmac, it depends what you guys write into your contracts. If you actuelly have a clause that gives you 90 days to pay, it is no legal problem when both parties have agrred on it. If there is no such clause, the ESL should be very careful. I would not hesitate to give you a short timespan to pay and then sue you in the court in Cologne. Don't know when it was updated last time, but it says 90 days as a standard case and 180 days as the worst case in the tournament rules. No sanctions or anything on violations mentioned of course. | ||
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PsiKiller
Canada16 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:56 Trusty wrote: A lot of cut nerds in here who don't understand how real-world business works. Paying players doesn't have anything to do with how real business works. I run a business, I can't go to my suppliers "Hey guiz, not enough customers came in to my store to buy stuff, I can't pay you. Sowwiez" Or if I did, they'd be sending me a legal letter threatening to sue me for past due product. That's how real business works. Tournament Organizers need to pay their prize winners in whatever time-frame the players sign for in the contracts, failing to do so if I were in the players spot, I'd be contacting my lawyers to have them give the tournament organizers a nice phone call. | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
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mighty_honour_korea
Scotland198 Posts
On November 04 2011 04:57 Carmac wrote: 1) Why doesn't prize money get paid out instantly? That's not the issue. Nobody's flipping out because prize money isn't in their bank accounts the day after an event. People want to how an organisation like the ESL can come to find itself with debts that are, in some cases, years in arrears. There's clearly a problem within the ESL of people not getting their prize money and it's not because someone glanced over an email or forget to give a bank account number. It's systemic and has been for many years, so address the issue now. Why is it happening and what do you plan to do about it? Try keep in mind this is peoples livelihoods you're dicking around with. | ||
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Bedward
United States28 Posts
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:02 PsiKiller wrote: Paying players doesn't have anything to do with how real business works. I run a business, I can't go to my suppliers "Hey guiz, not enough customers came in to my store to buy stuff, I can't pay you. Sowwiez" Or if I did, they'd be sending me a legal letter threatening to sue me for past due product. That's how real business works. Tournament Organizers need to pay their prize winners in whatever time-frame the players sign for in the contracts, failing to do so if I were in the players spot, I'd be contacting my layers to have them give the tournament organizers a nice phone call. And they are...90 days. The ones that aren't have been called out and are dying. Like Carmac said in the OP, the vast majority of the money owed is still within the contracted time-frame. | ||
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tabbott26
United Kingdom379 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:02 PsiKiller wrote: Tournament Organizers need to pay their prize winners in whatever time-frame the players sign for in the contracts, failing to do so if I were in the players spot, I'd be contacting my layers to have them give the tournament organizers a nice phone call. Get the building works going... | ||
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Serashin
235 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:00 FlyingDJ wrote: I will stop explaining esports business on TL as it seems to fall on deaf ears, but here goes one last time: I am not saying MLG do not have a sustainable business model, I will however say that a company that gets a 10 million dollar investment in 2010 will of course be able to pay out prize money that is not much more than 50k total right away in 2011. Ask the console players if they get paid out right away, and the past contenders if they have been. Look at what GotFrag has become to see how investments can go wrong. These things happen, and a company in existence for more than 10 years which contributed a great deal to the development of esports in the world will experience their fair share of it. At least try to look at the business side of things for a moment. Stop hosting tournaments? Who's going to benefit from that, surely neither players nor spectators. The delays are bad, but they don't destroy what esports is like, in fact over years in the past where delays and non-payment was worse they sure did not. I sir make it for everyone simple , currently eSports is like McDonalds in its early time relative unknown but this is like the time where any bad stuff can hurt you in the long run. eSports made steps wich future is ensured by now i give it 3-4 years and there are viwerships of atleast 1 / 20 of current well known sports. Im not further explaining why , all i know and what is fact ESL is a not trustworthy organisation the post from Carnac itself just made it even more redicilous , ESL will go down eventualy or stay in future as a corrupt pillar no one needs that. | ||
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Dexx
Germany175 Posts
On November 04 2011 06:01 SinCitta wrote: Don't know when it was updated last time, but it says 90 days as a standard case and 180 days as the worst case in the tournament rules. No sanctions or anything on violations mentioned of course. 180 days seems unreasonable and I don't think that clause would hold in a court, even more so if it is a small sum. But 90 days seems fine for such a clause. Here is my advice for the pros, if German civil law is applicable: Wait until that timespan expires and then put ESL "in Verzug" (§ 286 BGB). When they are "in Verzug" you can claim all your damages (costs for laywers etc). The ESL has no "Einwendungen und Einreden" against the claims of the players. They are the ones who are breaching the contracts, if they don't pay out, not you. Don't let yourself be put under pressure by a big guy, if he is wrong. The law is on your side. | ||
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