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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
I think the tournies that are doing what they can tho, probably can't do much since it is up to their sponsors to actually go through with it and pay. The sponsors could just decide not to pay but still get advertised? =/ If there are any tournies scamming players, that's just horrible | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:01 Newbistic wrote: That's what I'm thinking. Have a section of TL dedicated to Progamers' finance, where they can keep track of their earnings and which tournaments have/haven't paid. The information can be made public so people can see which tournaments are reneging on their prize money. Otherwise, i wonder if progamers can file a class action lawsuit against some of these organizations, it's ridiculous for progamers to compete essentially for free giving so much advertising to these companies. This is a good idea! | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:01 Newbistic wrote: That's what I'm thinking. Have a section of TL dedicated to Progamers' finance, where they can keep track of their earnings and which tournaments have/haven't paid. The information can be made public so people can see which tournaments are reneging on their prize money. Otherwise, i wonder if progamers can file a class action lawsuit against some of these organizations, it's ridiculous for progamers to compete essentially for free giving so much advertising to these companies. Can't form a class action suit based on individual events/experiences. | ||
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TWIX_Heaven
Denmark169 Posts
This is how most other business work. How many contractors will ever do anything without money upfront? that is right no one! The pro-gamers should demand the same. Money on the table or no dice. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:56 HappyChris wrote: If MLG can pau out there price pool instantly I see no reason why other organisation cant. Can you? Many companies operate on massive bank loans to keep cash flow liquid. Most of these tournaments can not even get approved for loans like this so they are at the mercy of the sponsors. MLG also takes in money from player + spectator passes, monthly/annual memberships as well as MLG TV. They have cash up front before the sponsor dollars come in so they are at least able to cover some of the expenses immediately. Anybody else need a lesson on how business works? | ||
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RyF
Austria508 Posts
ESL act like one of the most professional organisations and make a lot of money from the players by selling premium acounts whatsoever. go4sc2 cups are sponsored by steelseries and most likely steelseries is paying the money. ESL is holding the money back wtf? I even know that the winners of EPS alps in the first and only season haven't got their prize money yet (around 900€). this is so sad and it (kinda) kills esport. by that i mean the players who live from this and mayb ehave to stop playing full time becuz of that. on the other hand i really wonder why the pros don't talk to a lawier and make it work that way since writing emails is nice but they will keep laughing and lie at you. | ||
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xShoeicide
New Zealand41 Posts
(Ive tried to read through the posts and didnt see this question asked or answered) | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
If 90% of bad tournaments will go away, the other 10 %, which is mostly comprised of big tournaments like IEM, not paying up is a serious problem. For a major tournament organizer to not be properly taking care of their players represents a threat to E-Sports in general. The free-flowing feel of e-sports makes the pros pay a steep price in this case. Certainly, if the players do not consent to get together and organize a union or governing body, this is going to be an issue the community has to go after. Certainly, a little bit more time to let the major offenders die off wouldn't hurt, but at the same time the pros are definitely going to have to consider how they want to handle this issue if it persists over the next few months up to the HotS release. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
That's how us folks in import business survive. | ||
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ride
13 Posts
On November 01 2011 00:50 DarKFoRcE wrote: DISCLAIMER: MY LIST IS JUST ALL THE TOURNAMENTS I STILL GET MONEY FROM, SOME OF THEM HAVE ONLY BEEN FEW WEEKS AGO (AND THEM BEING ON THE LIST DOES NOT MEAN I CONSIDER THEM TO BE PAYING LATE), SO PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WHEN JUDGING! I have been thinking of creating such a thread for months, im happy that you made the step. i have a word file on my computer with all cups that i still get prizemoney from, i will copy it here. please note that some of those tourneys are very recently, so its not a big deal that i havent gotten the money yet, but some are almost, or even more than 1 year ago (for example i havent gotten the 3000 SEK from the dreamhack BYOC qualifier that all the first place finishers of the qualifiers were supposed to get). I hope you can forgive me the slighty unorganized format of my list, but i think it should be clear what is meant in each case. it IS possible that one of those tourneys did pay me, and i forgot to take the tournament off the list, but its not very likely... but yea just wanted to put this here as a warning that i cannot guarantee that the list is 100% perfect (but pretty close to 100). Dailymotion Cup 200$ or € EPS Season 17 ~450€ EPS Summer 2011 ~300€ Dreamhack Winter 2010 BYOC Qualifier (3000 SEK ~ 320€) Epiccup invite turnier 50$ Virus invite turnier (100 or 150)$ IPL Season 2 400$ WCG National Finals (Hardware prize) 29.9.2011 GeForce Pro Turnier 1575$ + hardware Forgot date TheGreat Showmatch hardware 13.10.2011 Zotac Monthly Final September 500€ 19.10.2011 ESL Monthly Final September 500€ One thing i am very happy about is that i have recently gotten my NASL Season 1 prizemoney, even though it was a bit later than promised, it still came relatively quickly, compared to many other events! Another thing that annoys me is that you usually have to ASK via email for the prizemoney, only in rare cases are you actually being contacted by the tournament organizers about the prizemoney... In some cases i had to write many many emails, which costs alot of time and energy and is really making me quite angry at times. (edited in approximate amounts and dates of recent ones) Wasn't the Dailymotion cup made by ESL? I mean paid by Daily but arranged by ESL | ||
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Seronei
Sweden991 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:01 Teiwaz wrote: I'm sorry to come up with this but...what do you do for a living and how old are you? Seriously, promising money you don't have (yet) is how the fucking world economy works! We're talking about a tournament with sponsorship not the world economy. Tournaments needs to start demanding the money from sponsors before the tournament is played else we'll always have problem with prices not being paid. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:49 TheBomb wrote: I actually think this is Blizzards fault. They charge everyone for prize pool over $5000, while at the same time the tournaments barely have money to operate and the players are not getting their hard earned money. Nice job of supporting e-sports blizzard, more like robbing the small amount of money the players should be getting. This is why I've written in the related threads so much about this, its like Blizzard is doing everything to stop e-sports and get on the back on it and try to suck it dry, while we have players and even casters not getting payed for months or at all. I also think the prices will shrink, because while there is a lot of hype the audience for SC2 is not that big. I mean 100k unique viewers is not that much for a high level 100k in prizes tournament over 3 or 4 days. As much as I'd like to jump on the Blizzard/Activision Flaming bandwagon - I think their business strategy is causing a lot of damage to ESPORTS - this problem is by no means limited to the SC2 scene. | ||
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price
United States297 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:07 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: The easiest way you can solve this is everyone in the eSports community to have "escrow or GTFO" to any organiser. That's how us folks in import business survive. well you can guarantee this will be discussed on the upcoming SC2 / Esports talk shows as seeing how this thread is blowing up. i'm hoping that discussion will resolve a large portion of the problems for the near future. | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:07 Seronei wrote: We're talking about a tournament with sponsorship not the world economy. Tournaments needs to start demanding the money from sponsors before the tournament is played else we'll always have problem with prices not being paid. Yup, thats how the non-esports world works. And its a perfectly workable business model when done right. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:06 TWIX_Heaven wrote: it just does not make any sense. If the money are getting paid at one point (very late) it must be because the sponsors / organizers are slow to collect income / sponsor money - but never the less the organizers should take necessary means to get the money upfront and then recoup with the sponsor money / as-revenue. This is how most other business work. How many contractors will ever do anything without money upfront? that is right no one! The pro-gamers should demand the same. Money on the table or no dice. Sponsor [x] gives tournament [y] [z] dollars for a tournament. How can this sponsor guarantee that the tournament happens and/or the organizers use the money appropriately? This is why they pay out after, so they know exactly how much they are paying and where this money is going. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:03 Mouzone wrote: Sorry but no, small scale business transactions do not take several months to process. Small scale?! Have you seen the list of sponsors?! I could tell within the first 10 minutes of IPL 3 (it was my first IPL and I'm sad I missed 1 and 2) that there was a tremendous amount of money flying around that place and it had to come from some monstrous sponsors. I've also gotten the impression from this thread that they like to send out all the payments at once. You're talking many many players each from different countries who have to be paid via different means and subject to different laws from a country that has a chip on it's shoulder about money leaving (the US screams "buy American" every political cycle for a reason). The more I think about it the more surprised I am that international esports happens at all... | ||
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Tyrgrim
Sweden83 Posts
If they owe you money, because of a contract, a service rendered, or simply just by a promise, then they must pay you as soon as you require the money (within reason). This is normally stipulated in contracts or any signed documents, when the money shall be payed. If it is not mentioned, then praxis rules, if there is no praxis, then the money shall be payed as soon as you require it. Failure to do so will give you right to charge interest on the money, which is 9,5%. And another thing; In all the costs of the court in a case is always payed by the loser. And lots of lawyers & firms offer free legal advice, so that you can tell them about your case, and they can inform you whether you have a good chance at winning or not. And if you do, they'll take the case, and get you your money. tl;dr If a Swedish organizer pulls something like this, there is zero risk in contacting a swedish lawyer. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:01 Teiwaz wrote: I'm sorry to come up with this but...what do you do for a living and how old are you? Seriously, promising money you don't have (yet) is how the fucking world economy works! You really need to quit with these absolutes and delusionals of time tables in the 'REAL WORLD, the BUSINESS WORLD'. You are absolutely correct that borrowing, debt, credit management is HUGE and companies do things like this all the time but to think its acceptable in a tournament format where players are competing for an advertised prize is absurd. This isn't some billion dollar hedge trying to manipulate their books for reporting and value sharing or a philosophical debate on the nature of the world's economy. For your other absurd question to the thread, im 27 and a scholarship coordinator. I oversee, award, adjust, and review millions of dollars worth of scholarhip awards and payments each year and nothing in our service standard from review to disbursement of funds takes anywhere close to 60-90 days. | ||
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Mae_Govannen
Germany6 Posts
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cost2010
Germany46 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:59 Plansix wrote: 30-60 days is standard in the buisness world. That being said, my firm has waited over 2 years for payment from some clients. in my experience suppliers of large companies are usually paid after 90 days (I know for sure that it is handled like this in the German automotive industry, may vary for other countries/industries). Small companies for which late payment might cause serious liquidity issues do offer a discount for early payment (usually around 2-3%, called "Skonto" in German). edit: in my opinion it has to be stressed that the player has a contract with the tournament organizer, not with the sponsors. The organizer should bear the financial risk of sponsors not paying in time and insure against it if necessary (which would be much more expensive or flat out unfeasible for individual players) | ||
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EPT
Taking several months for this is, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous unless their are factors beyond the touranment organiser's control involved (e.g. government regulations).
