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Farnsworth
Romania11 Posts
We see such big posters about the prize money in tournaments... and yet half of them are lies. As a player you're just hoping that you'l get your money.. that's a shame. I was in the cloud how fast is sc2 as an e-sport growing, but when I read the thread, It almost came to me to vomit... Bender | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:45 pbjsandwich wrote: lol you apparently have no idea how a lot of this works you're amazed because your view of how things should be don't fit how things are Tbh, the very fact that 'within 90 days' has become the marker for 'acceptable period' is very disappointing in itself. Tournaments should secure funding from their sponsors BEFORE the event takes place and distribute the prize money within a month at most. These players earn their living off tournaments. How crazy is it that they're expected to wait 3 months to receive what's due? The industry needs a shake up if you want to attract young talent to the scene. As TB has pointed out already, the current system is way too uncertain & unattractive for young players to fully commit to ESPORTS. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
Actual players said that up to 3 months is acceptable, I'm not sure why it's such a shock. The problem is when tournaments don't pay after a year or more, and you don't actually know if you will ever get paid. If it's stated beforehand, with the huge bureoucracy involved, 3 months isn't such a disgrace. Around a month would probally be the best, but sometimes things are just not possible. | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
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IMhaZe
Austria2 Posts
What i always wanted to know is: How do Tournaments and Leagues generate money and how much :-) | ||
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Quasimoto3000
United States471 Posts
Pros, if you tell us to boycott a tournament, we will do it. | ||
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hardythedrummer
United States11 Posts
I honestly do not know anything about the staffing for any teams other then FXO, TL and EG, and even my knowledge regarding those teams is pretty limited, so I don't know if such a thing is even reasonable to expect for most teams, but my gut feeling is Cloud and such shouldn't have to deal with this at all. Having someone dedicated to making sure you get paid is really common for actors, sports players, singers/bands, etc. Why not eSports? | ||
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:48 Seronei wrote: Just because it's usual doesn't mean that it's acceptable. It is acceptable if you come to realize (and accept) how the real world out there (aka the business world) works. There's no double rainbow. | ||
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AndersR.
Denmark16 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:43 GTR wrote: ESL is probably the worst organisation out of the whole lot. As far as I am aware, I am pretty sure IdrA still hasn't been paid his EPS prize money from Brood War. could very well be true, the longest time i've heard of is the Polish CS 1.6 team which they still owe money for winning IEM Global Finals '07. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:52 Quasimoto3000 wrote: Here is the honest truth about SC2 viewers. We support players, not tournaments. If there were no tournaments, I would still be watching player streams. Pros, if you tell us to boycott a tournament, we will do it. Yes, let's start a giant pissing contest in esports so that the people who are supposed to be working together have a hostile and adversarial relationship. I love my players. I love my tournaments. I want everyone to be happy. And I don't think esports is a zero sum game so I don't think it's an unreasonable desire. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:17 polarfluKe wrote: I did PM you regarding this, but I feel you have not played your part in the discussion and I have the right to say what I must say now. How exactly do you expect us to pay you? Did you bother to send me your payment details before I had to PM you earlier for them? Did you even read the tournament rules that are in place? Here is an excerpt from our Rules, updated on 13/10/2011: Payments (Added 13-10-2011) South African players must submit their banking details from their registered e-mail address Non South African players must submit their PayPal details from their registered e-mail address All prizes are paid in ZAR and thus the estimated USD value may be different to that stated on the tournament page due to currency fluctuations Players must submit their payment details within 2(two) weeks of the end of a tournament to receive their payment else the prize will be forfeit Once the 2(two) week period is over, all payments will be processed I did tell you after reading your OP that I would still make your payment even though you had failed to adhere to the rules of the tournament. This is absolutely ridiculous that you are including tournaments from 2 weeks ago; while I do support talking up about tournaments and hosts that have an extremely long wait time, you are causing damage to guys like me who do actually pay up. I work my ass off to host monthly tournaments with good prize pools. I spend hours upon hours in meetings, trying to get more money into my tournaments and with one or two posts you are able to wrongfully ruin a reputation my organization has earned. PolarfluKe has been running since May 2010 and we have run 18 tournaments for Starcraft II. Every tournament is paid up in full except for the tournament we hosted 2 weeks ago(15-16 October). If you had bothered to read the rules regarding payments (which I was forced to add because it takes players too long to send their payment details), I explicitly state how the payment structure works now. Do not lay blame on myself or my organization for payment not received when you can not adhere to simple rules. Did you bother to send your payment details to anyone in that list? hi, sorry i removed you from the list in my initial post but forgot to do so in the other one. | ||
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xSixGeneralHan
United States528 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:40 Diamond wrote: They are part of your org, I would expect they would trust you with that info. When I get a new job and my employer asks me for my SS card and shit I don't go "NO! I DON'T TRUST YOU! I will deal with the payroll company myself!" To answer your question, if I was a pro player on a pro team I would sure as shit want a manager doing his job. It's not like it's never been done, Korean managers actually do this. They sign up players for tournies, personally come online when any dispute happens and handle it personally, and if there is an issue with a payment, you better believe the manager will come asking. I'm not saying you are entirely wrong, but you insinuate that no one helps players with disputes, or helps to sign up players for tournaments etc in the foreign scene. I know I've helped a player collect money and push who we need to push, I'm sure I'm not the only one. In regards to being the face to a tournament and sending in all the forms on behalf of a player, while that occurs in Korea, it just might not be viable yet here. I agree, I don't want a player wasting time on things like that, but it's not entirely possible yet. Yes, if you are an organization with LLC etc, you would hope a player would trust the organization with some certain private details. I think this is sort of a silly disagreement because we agree on the ideals but we disagree on how possible they are right this second. Western esports probably needs to develop a little bit more in terms of player and organization roles. Thanks for the debate! | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:32 Serejai wrote: Quoting this because too many people are simply jumping on the bandwagon without having both sides of the story. There's no doubt in my mind that some of these instances are due to players failing to submit the required information and/or follow set proceedures. However, if the players have submitted their payment information on time and reliable contact information, it is up to the tournament host to ensure they get their money. If some requirements have not been completed or followed, it is again up to the tournament host to at the very least inform then as to why they have not (or will not) get their winnings. While that may suck for smaller hosts, it's part of the job of organizing a tournament. If you can't handle that type of administration, you have no business hosting a tournament. | ||
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Gattaca.usa
131 Posts
they always say "its coming" or "you didn't fill it out right" etc. so sad =(. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:51 SKC wrote: Actual players said that up to 3 months is acceptable, I'm not sure why it's such a shock. The problem is when tournaments don't pay after a year or more, and you don't actually know if you will ever get paid. If it's stated beforehand, with the huge bureoucracy involved, 3 months isn't such a disgrace. Around a month would probally be the best, but sometimes things are just not possible. players think 3 months is acceptable because so many tournaments are EVEN WORSE, the fact that 90 days is thought of as 'well done' is a joke. | ||
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote: Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week. One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information. I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but shouldn't the payments be prepared in advance? I mean it's not like it's unexpected that you have to pay people out after a live event.  Taking several months for this is, in my opinion, absolutely ridiculous unless their are factors beyond the touranment organiser's control involved (e.g. government regulations). | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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HappyChris
1534 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:45 pbjsandwich wrote: lol you apparently have no idea how a lot of this works you're amazed because your view of how things should be don't fit how things are If MLG can pau out there price pool instantly I see no reason why other organisation cant. Can you? | ||
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Seronei
Sweden991 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:53 Teiwaz wrote: It is acceptable if you come to realize (and accept) how the real world out there (aka the business world) works. There's no double rainbow. Surely it doesn't take 90 days for the paperwork? It's not acceptable to promise money you don't have. | ||
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EPT
. I think what would be a bit more professional is organizations paying money out within reasonable timeframes. 
