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Gegenschein
Canada107 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:21 Noocta wrote: I don't understand how people can praise BW balance while protoss is worse than in SC2 since years. The prodigy with BW is not the perfect balance, as much as the fact that it's still pretty much balanced, many years after the last balance patch. The metagame had time to change times and times over, and still it's pretty close. | ||
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jj33
802 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:16 Jochan wrote: I am so happy that we, me and my friend, can finally settle our bet. For those wondering it was about how will the pro BW players do in SC2 when they switch. I won't stir any shit storm here about our opinion. I am just happy that we will have an answer in the upcoming months. Don't you already have your answer? What do you call guys like Idra/MC/puma/MVP, they were pro bw players and they have been successful. If you just mean by the top bw players, well then ok. | ||
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Caspas
Germany157 Posts
To accelerate this development it will help incredibly if the BW geniuses switch, because they are able to find things, wich are in the game already, without anyone (including Blizzard) knowing yet (remember reaver-shuttle-play). Anyway, I feel they will dominate SC2 within 3 to 6 Seasons of GSL (if they participate). The only current SC2 players that may be able to stay in Code S then are NesTea and MVP (possibly Bomber and MKP) but they wont win it anymore. And another fact why I'd like them to switch is there are no really big names in SC2 yet. Especially since I am Protoss I have a hard time to cheer for a certain player. I hope former BW-Players come up Last edit: 2011-10-29 04:15:03 with solutions... for P. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:06 GGTeMpLaR wrote: It is a fact whether you agree with it or not. I'd love to see someone explain to us laymen exactly why this is, given that BW's win/loss rates oscillate dramatically over large time periods with few balance changes, with very nearly the same extremes as SC2. I think this is just held because people want to feel superior about playing the older game, and it isn't actually rooted in any fact at all. We should respect Brood War players because they have provided epic games, but many of our current pros also came from Warcraft 3, a game that required damn near as much macro and a hundred times more micro than any iteration of Brood War. You spit on them when you try and make these comparisons. Starcraft 2 is its own game, and a better one for it because it reaches out to vast swathes of people, from C&C/Brood War/Warcraft 3 pros to scrubs like me. It's very exciting to be a part of. It is time to let Brood War enter its twilight period, and enjoy the superb game we now play. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
Engagements in BW are just more... epic. Units are spread over multiple screens, and they just dont die as fast, giving players time to micro and dance with what they have. Plus the unit's themselves are just so perfect. I dunno how blizzard came up with them, but its pure genius... Its going to be hard to replicate that kind of magic again (they have come close with sc2, but it just isn't there yet). To all hardcore sc2 fans that say "just BW die already": Do me a favor and show me an sc2 game (or even a one minute clip) that has this kind of finesse and excitement. I wanna see more of this. Sure MPK can micro his marines against blings, but besides that there is very little crazy kinds of engagements that have you on the edge of your seat while watching. | ||
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crashonly
Finland418 Posts
 Then again, all my old favourite commentators are now commentating SC2 anyway so oh well.Still, I am very excited about what the likes of Bisu and the Dong will be able to bring to SC2, I'm hopeful they'll take the game to a whole new level! | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4120 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:26 Gabriel Verlaine wrote: I like what I've just read. Even if BW is the better game right now. If I remember right it needed about 7 to 8 years to become as good as it is now. I feel SC2 has the chance to equalize that in about the same time after LotV is published and will become as exciting as BW is right now. To accelerate this development it will help incredibly if the BW geniuses switch, because they are able to find things, wich are in the game already, without anyone (including Blizzard) knowing yet (remember reaver-shuttle-play). Anyway, I feel they will dominate SC2 within 3 to 6 Seasons of GSL (if they participate). The only current SC2 players that may be able to stay in Code S then are NesTea and MVP (possibly Bomber and MKP) but they wont win it anymore. And another fact why I'd like them to switch is there are no really big names in SC2 yet. Especially since I am Protoss I have a hard time to cheer for a certain player. I hope former BW-Players come up Last edit: 2011-10-29 04:15:03 with solutions... for P. I'm sorry but as long as Dustin Browder is designing the game it will steer more and more towards CnC. The Colossus is just the beginning my friends. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:20 RHMVNovus wrote: What, the 'balanced' part? ![[image loading]](http://www.whitecosmos.com/sc/balance/TvZ.png) Credit to Milkis's blog at http://whitecosmos.tumblr.com/ -Milkis More difficult? Can't really dispute the truth of that. Relevance, possibly, but that is really the only plank one could go after. Even that'd be pretty tenuous. Balanced? Not quite so much. There are many things wrong with SC2. The Colossus is a "ruining esports" unit. The units are, on the whole, un-inspired and very 1a2a3a (or 1a (or a if you're Terran)), with the possible exception of the Hellion, Raven, and Queen. These last few are not points I intend to contend, just stating that there are things wrong with SC2 that are wholly not-sensationalist. as much as I love milkis this is a pisspoor way of pointing out the 'imbalance' of BW considering how frequent the maps get changed in Korean Leagues It's like maps don't matter anymore! | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:18 Gegenschein wrote: Think about it this way, SC2 haters: At least, now, Blizzard will have real progamers to work with and balance out the game  Why the fuck would that matter when they clearly care more about balance in Diamond and below on the ladder, than in actual tournaments? | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:20 RHMVNovus wrote: What, the 'balanced' part? Credit to Milkis's blog at http://whitecosmos.tumblr.com/ -Milkis More difficult? Can't really dispute the truth of that. Relevance, possibly, but that is really the only plank one could go after. Even that'd be pretty tenuous. Balanced? Not quite so much. There are many things wrong with SC2. The Colossus is a "ruining esports" unit. The units are, on the whole, un-inspired and very 1a2a3a (or 1a (or a if you're Terran)), with the possible exception of the Hellion, Raven, and Queen. These last few are not points I intend to contend, just stating that there are things wrong with SC2 that are wholly not-sensationalist. Proleague 2010-11 win rates: Terran: 49% Zerg: 50% Protoss: 51% On balanced maps, BW has perfect balance. A lesser Zerg will not defeat Bisu in PL anytime soon unless Bisu plays below normal standard. Is it possible for Sc2 to be balanced like this? Possibly, Daybreak is incredibly fair and is by far the best map in the pool. But looking at 1/1/1, and reactor hellion variations, I simply cannot see true balance. | ||
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:26 Gabriel Verlaine wrote: I like what I've just read. Even if BW is the better game right now. If I remember right it needed about 7 to 8 years to become as good as it is now. I feel SC2 has the chance to equalize that in about the same time after LotV is published and will become as exciting as BW is right now. To accelerate this development it will help incredibly if the BW geniuses switch, because they are able to find things, wich are in the game already, without anyone (including Blizzard) knowing yet (remember reaver-shuttle-play). Anyway, I feel they will dominate SC2 within 3 to 6 Seasons of GSL (if they participate). The only current SC2 players that may be able to stay in Code S then are NesTea and MVP (possibly Bomber and MKP) but they wont win it anymore. And another fact why I'd like them to switch is there are no really big names in SC2 yet. Especially since I am Protoss I have a hard time to cheer for a certain player. I hope former BW-Players come up Last edit: 2011-10-29 04:15:03 with solutions... for P. BW didn't take 7 to 8 years to become interesting or exciting. Many people believe that the game was more entertaining 5+ years ago than it is now. The level of play is higher, yes, but that's not the only thing entertainment is about. | ||
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I)etox
1240 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:26 Evangelist wrote: We should respect Brood War players because they have provided epic games, but many of our current pros also came from Warcraft 3, a game that required damn near as much macro and a hundred times more micro than any iteration of Brood War. sorry but wc3 macro <<<<<<<<<<<< bw macro. MBS and on top of that wc3 was built to have a focus on micro and not macro. | ||
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3091 Posts
This has nothing to do with the death of BW or SC2. It's a chance for a major infusion of life into both scenes; BW would get a ton of foreign fans, and SC2 would get a ton of talent and infrastructure in Korea. It's win/win. Go Starcraft! | ||
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jj33
802 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:26 Evangelist wrote: I'd love to see someone explain to us laymen exactly why this is, given that BW's win/loss rates oscillate dramatically over large time periods with few balance changes, with very nearly the same extremes as SC2. I think this is just held because people want to feel superior about playing the older game, and it isn't actually rooted in any fact at all. We should respect Brood War players because they have provided epic games, but many of our current pros also came from Warcraft 3, a game that required damn near as much macro and a hundred times more micro than any iteration of Brood War. You spit on them when you try and make these comparisons. Starcraft 2 is its own game, and a better one for it because it reaches out to vast swathes of people, from C&C/Brood War/Warcraft 3 pros to scrubs like me. It's very exciting to be a part of. It is time to let Brood War enter its twilight period, and enjoy the superb game we now play. you lost all credibility with that statement there. macro in wc3 is a joke and the micro was different from bw but bw micro was insanely hard because stuff dies way faster and you're not only microing in one area at at a time and you're also macroing. | ||
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Caspas
Germany157 Posts
On October 29 2011 04:27 sGs.Kal_rA wrote: Mechanics aside, MSL prelim games are just more entertaining to watch than the GSL Finals.... I just don't see sc2 lasting more than 2-3 years after LoV is out. Engagements in BW are just more... epic. Units are spread over multiple screens, and they just dont die as fast, giving players time to micro and dance with what they have. Plus the unit's themselves are just so perfect. I dunno how blizzard came up with them, but its pure genius... Its going to be hard to replicate that kind of magic again (they have come close with sc2, but it just isn't there yet). To all hardcore sc2 fans that say "just BW die already": Do me a favor and show me an sc2 game (or even a one minute clip) that has this kind of finesse and excitement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqsSrWZciY0 I wanna see more of this. Sure MPK can micro his marines against blings, but besides that there is very little crazy kinds of engagements that have you on the edge of your seat while watching. I haven't seen this before... It's so beatiful... I miss my goons Thansk for bringing this to me. Makes me miss BW oh so much. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 29 2011 03:47 Dante08 wrote: Wow thats fucking amazing. I don't think any current SC2 player can multitask that well even with the easier mechanics, less maybe MVP. I'd be suprised if any could. This is no rip on the SC2 guys, its just that Bisu was known for being head and shoulders above almost everyone in BW at multitasking, including many strong BW players known for being quick and solid mechanically. I haven't heard any SC2 pros being noted for having truly insane multi-task so far either. The only other player that is in the same league as Bisu is BaBy. Watching his Bnet attacks were pretty damn insane as well. | ||
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Nullshock
United States37 Posts
Like it or not, if e-sports is going to grow outside of Korea, it's going to have to be SC2, and getting tip top players of BW to join the scene can only help SC2. But definitely still sad for the BW scene, which I still love to watch, English commentary or not. Good luck to both scenes, players and communities. I hope we can all get along and support each other for e-sport's sake. | ||
Poopi
France12758 Posts
On October 29 2011 01:46 kakaman wrote: Sorry MKP, time to move aside, Bisu is coming! Swoon~ The pvp in the end was Bisu against MKP? | ||
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