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The New GSL Format Explained - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
465 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 24 Next All
P0ckets
Profile Joined January 2011
United States430 Posts
October 27 2011 18:12 GMT
#241
Can anyone clarify how the MLG spots work into the chart please???
HEROwithNOlegacy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States850 Posts
October 27 2011 18:12 GMT
#242
Regardless how confusing it may be to some of you, the important thing is is that GSL is finally changing their format to help sc2 grow in Korea. That is why it is important, and that is why you should like it. Change leads to new and great things. Until something ain't broke don't fix it, but when something is hurting and bleeding put a band aid on it.
SlayerS Fighting!
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
October 27 2011 18:13 GMT
#243
Alicia looks like he might be going back down to Code B. FD apparently feels that his ZvP is his best match-up now -- and it's certainly not horrendous anymore -- and Alicia's PvZ has always been ... suspect at best. Hmmm.

Hope Soccer moves up. Squirtle keeps drawing damn Zergs. Hahaha. Poor kid.

Rainbow ... well, better luck next time, Rainbow. Group E has Happy, Gumi, Bomber, and DRG.
Gov
Profile Joined November 2010
United States121 Posts
October 27 2011 18:13 GMT
#244
Cool, so only the top 8 of code s are truly safe to remain in code s?
This might get me interested in paying for the GSL again... maybe it even won't be a terranfest after a few seasons of this.
1
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:28:44
October 27 2011 18:15 GMT
#245
On October 28 2011 03:12 diophan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 03:06 darmousseh wrote:
So I did a little math and came up with the new expected values. Assuming that the odds of a Code S player against a code A player is roughyl 50%. (More likely it's closer to 55%), then this is what the difference in the format produces.

F stands for Foreign tournament invite.

Previous GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 27.2
S -> A 4.8
S -> B 0
A -> S 3.8
A -> A 20.2
A -> B 16
B -> A 12
F -> S 1
F -> A 4

New GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 19.3
S -> A 7.7
S -> B 4
A -> S 10
A -> A 10
A -> B 20
F -> S 2.7
F -> A 1.3

This means that staying in Code S is a lot harder than before and we should expect quite a high number of Code S player to suddenly drop to Code A and even a few to Code B. The number advancing from A to S is much higher though.

The new format is interesting, but I believe similar results can happen with a much simpler format.


The 50% assumption seems really silly. You have everyone but the top 8 code s players against code a players. Looking at last season, that's people like Bomber and HuK.



Look at all of the up and down matches. It's actually really close to 50%. If you assume that it's 55% then it might change the results slightly, but otherwise assuming 50% is fine for my example.



edit; Lol, I couldn't be more wrong. Code A players have a 63%! winrate in up and down matches against code S players lol. Considering that a lot more code S players (and the better players too, not just the ones that lost in ro32) I think that 50% is fair.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
price
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
October 27 2011 18:16 GMT
#246
i'm glad the tech trees are not this complicated :|
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Vaelom
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)154 Posts
October 27 2011 18:19 GMT
#247
Wow that brings a whole new level to being a constant Code S player :O!
good explanations aswell
There is a reason why i keep score, winning is everything, losing isn't.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
October 27 2011 18:20 GMT
#248
My thoughts on each Code A match:

+ Show Spoiler [Code A Bracket] +
Code S Group A 4th vs IM_MinSeok

MVPKeen vs TSLRevival (Hoping Revival wins this one, not because I don't like Keen, but because I like Revival, sad that one of these players has to go.)

iSCrazymoving vs Liquid`Hero (As much as I want Crazymoving to do well, HerO needs to win, sorry)

Code S Group B 4th vs MVPGuineaPig

ST_Superstar vs SlayerSBrown (?) (RandomVampire FTW)

ST_Fruitdealer vs SlayerSAlicia (I'm 50/50 on this one, but I really don't want the first GSL champion to fall out of Code A)

Code S Group C 4th vs CreatorPrime

oGsTOP vs ST_Parting (TOP fell from Code S the season after making it to the finals, I really hope he doesn't fall out)

NsHsTassadar vs DignitasSelect (SeleCT! Foreigner Korean, keep your Code A spot again!)

Code S Group D 4th vs oGsCezanne

MVPGenius vs TSLSymbol (Genius should win this one, but I don't know much about Symbol)

NsHsSage vs oGsFin (Sage vs fOrGG?! Why would you do this to me GOM! May the better player win, although I think Sage deserves it more.)

Code S Group E 4th vs ST_Rainbow

TSL_JYP vs Quantic Sase (SaSe keeps impressing me recently, I hope he can beat JYP, as much as I like JYP)

FXOLucky vs DignitasNaniwa (Lucky is a good player, and I would not be surprised if he wins, but I'm cheering for Naniwa)

Code S Group F 4th vs Soccer

HongunPrime vs oGsLuvsic (CarrierKingPrime CANNOT fall out of Code A)

MVPNoblesse vs oGsInca (If InCa has really improved his non-vP matchups, I hope he sticks around)

Code S Group G 4th vs oGsVines

CheckPrime vs ST_Squirtle (CheckPrime has this pretty easy)

MVPMonster vs oGsJookto (Jookto needs to win, Monster killed MC, so he needs to die)

Code S Group H 4th vs oGsTheSTC

MVPDream vs SlayerSBoxer (BOXER)

oGsZenio vs (Teamless) Jung Min Ho (I want the teamless guy to win.)

Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
diophan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1018 Posts
October 27 2011 18:20 GMT
#249
On October 28 2011 03:15 darmousseh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 03:12 diophan wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:06 darmousseh wrote:
So I did a little math and came up with the new expected values. Assuming that the odds of a Code S player against a code A player is roughyl 50%. (More likely it's closer to 55%), then this is what the difference in the format produces.

F stands for Foreign tournament invite.

Previous GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 27.2
S -> A 4.8
S -> B 0
A -> S 3.8
A -> A 20.2
A -> B 16
B -> A 12
F -> S 1
F -> A 4

New GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 19.3
S -> A 7.7
S -> B 4
A -> S 10
A -> A 10
A -> B 20
F -> S 2.7
F -> A 1.3

This means that staying in Code S is a lot harder than before and we should expect quite a high number of Code S player to suddenly drop to Code A and even a few to Code B. The number advancing from A to S is much higher though.

The new format is interesting, but I believe similar results can happen with a much simpler format.


The 50% assumption seems really silly. You have everyone but the top 8 code s players against code a players. Looking at last season, that's people like Bomber and HuK.



Look at all of the up and down matches. It's actually really close to 50%. If you assume that it's 55% then it might change the results slightly, but otherwise assuming 50% is fine for my example.


In the current up and down it's the bottom 8 people in Code S. In the new system it'll be the bottom 24.
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
October 27 2011 18:24 GMT
#250
This is a good change, but part me of is curious why they don't just change GSL into a double elimination similar to MLG.

The advantages of being in code s:
- Only Code S players have the potential to win the tournament
- You get to play 2 sets of group stages instead of a traditional bo3 sets that Code A is still going through.

I suppose now you have to be really good at all matchups, instead of someone winning code S because he is a XvT sniper in the terran filled code S.

Not having code A finals kind of suck too, as Code A finals have been traditionally a lot more entertaining than the Code S finals.
Frazzlehoon
Profile Joined July 2008
United States3455 Posts
October 27 2011 18:27 GMT
#251
This is definitely a really cool format, it really shows the best can stay in Code S, while those that aren't performing might drop down to Code B. It shows a great mix of players, if you don't do well in pools against Code S players, you see how well you perform against the current Code A.

Only downsides I see:
No Code A Finals. (Heck even no Code A Ro12. Code A is more of a "AHH JUST MAKE IT PAST THE NEXT ROUND survival" than a tournament.)
No difference in losing in the Ro32 and Ro24 in Code A. If you lose in Ro32, you go to Up and Downs with no advantage/disadvantages than those that lost in Ro24.

Really looking forward to this, I like it!
BlindSC2
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom435 Posts
October 27 2011 18:27 GMT
#252
I like this setup as far as I understand it, although having coda A finals (for the sake of it, if nothing else) would be cool

Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools; because they have to say something - Plato
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
October 27 2011 18:30 GMT
#253
On October 28 2011 03:20 diophan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 03:15 darmousseh wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:12 diophan wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:06 darmousseh wrote:
So I did a little math and came up with the new expected values. Assuming that the odds of a Code S player against a code A player is roughyl 50%. (More likely it's closer to 55%), then this is what the difference in the format produces.

F stands for Foreign tournament invite.

Previous GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 27.2
S -> A 4.8
S -> B 0
A -> S 3.8
A -> A 20.2
A -> B 16
B -> A 12
F -> S 1
F -> A 4

New GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 19.3
S -> A 7.7
S -> B 4
A -> S 10
A -> A 10
A -> B 20
F -> S 2.7
F -> A 1.3

This means that staying in Code S is a lot harder than before and we should expect quite a high number of Code S player to suddenly drop to Code A and even a few to Code B. The number advancing from A to S is much higher though.

The new format is interesting, but I believe similar results can happen with a much simpler format.


The 50% assumption seems really silly. You have everyone but the top 8 code s players against code a players. Looking at last season, that's people like Bomber and HuK.



Look at all of the up and down matches. It's actually really close to 50%. If you assume that it's 55% then it might change the results slightly, but otherwise assuming 50% is fine for my example.


In the current up and down it's the bottom 8 people in Code S. In the new system it'll be the bottom 24.


Read my edit. Code A win 63% of the time against code S players in up and down matches. I think 50-55% assumption is good enough. Anyway, the point of my exercise is to determine expected turnover and it's likely to be a lot higher than before.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Leifish
Profile Joined July 2011
851 Posts
October 27 2011 18:30 GMT
#254
Wow, 2 Code S spots for MLG now?

Providence is going to get pretty intense.
thane
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States407 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:34:42
October 27 2011 18:33 GMT
#255
I laughed pretty hard at the Simplified Explanation it made my day!

Great writeup very well explained and thank you for posting it because I had heard there were changed but hadnt seen them until this thread.
WCH
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada239 Posts
October 27 2011 18:34 GMT
#256
On October 28 2011 03:30 Leifish wrote:
Wow, 2 Code S spots for MLG now?

Providence is going to get pretty intense.


2 Potential code s spots if you do well in the five groups. Its more like Code A spot.
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:35:38
October 27 2011 18:34 GMT
#257
On October 28 2011 03:30 darmousseh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2011 03:20 diophan wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:15 darmousseh wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:12 diophan wrote:
On October 28 2011 03:06 darmousseh wrote:
So I did a little math and came up with the new expected values. Assuming that the odds of a Code S player against a code A player is roughyl 50%. (More likely it's closer to 55%), then this is what the difference in the format produces.

F stands for Foreign tournament invite.

Previous GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 27.2
S -> A 4.8
S -> B 0
A -> S 3.8
A -> A 20.2
A -> B 16
B -> A 12
F -> S 1
F -> A 4

New GSL System Expected Turnover

S -> S 19.3
S -> A 7.7
S -> B 4
A -> S 10
A -> A 10
A -> B 20
F -> S 2.7
F -> A 1.3

This means that staying in Code S is a lot harder than before and we should expect quite a high number of Code S player to suddenly drop to Code A and even a few to Code B. The number advancing from A to S is much higher though.

The new format is interesting, but I believe similar results can happen with a much simpler format.


The 50% assumption seems really silly. You have everyone but the top 8 code s players against code a players. Looking at last season, that's people like Bomber and HuK.



Look at all of the up and down matches. It's actually really close to 50%. If you assume that it's 55% then it might change the results slightly, but otherwise assuming 50% is fine for my example.


In the current up and down it's the bottom 8 people in Code S. In the new system it'll be the bottom 24.


Read my edit. Code A win 63% of the time against code S players in up and down matches. I think 50-55% assumption is good enough. Anyway, the point of my exercise is to determine expected turnover and it's likely to be a lot higher than before.


I think his point was code a players had a 63% win rate against the bottom 8 code s players. Now they will be facing the bottom 24 code s players, so a lot stronger code s competition.
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:36:41
October 27 2011 18:36 GMT
#258
It potentially can be extremely volatile, while in reality it is safer for the real caliber Code S players due to Bo3s.
I like it!
I had a good night of sleep.
skyride
Profile Joined January 2011
Scotland103 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:36:59
October 27 2011 18:36 GMT
#259
On October 28 2011 03:16 price wrote:
i'm glad the tech trees are not this complicated :|


Think about it like a road map. You don't pre-consider every single route from every possible Point A to every possible Point B. You just learn the routes enough that you can work out how to get from any Point A to Point B at the time you actually need to.
DrakanSilva
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Chile932 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 18:42:42
October 27 2011 18:37 GMT
#260
For a second i thought I was looking to a new intel/amd chipset ^^.

I totally like it. This is absolutely sick
In the beginning there was nothing... and then exploded
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