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On October 22 2011 12:00 Yosen3002 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:59 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:56 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:55 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:51 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:48 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:45 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:43 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:42 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:40 Active.815 wrote:
[quote]
Hey look, corrupters and magic melee range vikings! wonder how this will go! first of all i think the cloud only effects ground units from what ive heard. 2nd of all, u do know u can move vikings out of the cloud range right? derp Hey look, you completely ignored corrupters (again). And moving out of the cloud is still time not shooting, which is going to make them even worse. what are corruptors going to do? u TARGET fire the vipers then kite the corruptors. whats the problem? u seriously think corruptors are good in TvZ? corrupters are air control. Spread vipers, corrupters get to kill the vikings for maybe 2 vipers? Whoop-de-doo time to unsiege and retreat again! lol spreading vipers isnt going to do anything because vikings dont have splash in the first place. not only that but ur main concern is the vipers, not the corruptors. the corrptors are USELESS in zvt. as long as u kill the vipers then that means no more cloud. no more clouds means that the marines will utterly rape any corruptors that ur vikings did not kill. Okay. I'm going to make this really simple for you. let's say you have some vikings trying to snipe some vipers with corrupter cover. Cool, right? Okay. Then you spread the vipers and keep your clump of corrupters on patrol or somesuch. Then~Vikings fly forward, but wait! corrupters! then the vikings kill a viper while getting killzored :o But wait! since you were a responsible zerg, you moved your vipers so that there was space between them, and now the vikings have to move (while being shot) to shoot the next one! and then they die! oooooooooooooooo do you know what point defense drone does? use it with ur vikings, it will do wonders........ PDD does basically what vipers do. i have no idea why you terrans constantly ignore. Because 10-12 corrupters can't snipe a raven before it gets into good range for PDD, and, after that, can't remove all the energy in 1-2 volleys.. What the fuck are you talking about? PDD neutralizes a very specific type and number of shots, and Vipers make EVERYTHING melee. There's a very large difference there. Oh, and guess what, Vipers can also pull shit out of position! you guys realise it doesnt make sense to theorycraft how to take down vipers before you even have played the game?
yeah, it's just irritating and gives me something to do :p
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On October 22 2011 11:46 Roxy wrote:
I dont play terran
I have no intention of playing terran
I do however, find the new thor really ugly
What kind of QQ do you think it would take to have them just put those stats on a goliath body?
Pushing 5,000 posts in this thread, and I just want to also add that the look of the Warhound at first glance seems pretty bad. It looks blocky.
I was looking at Battlemech / Mechwarrior designs. Found a list of like 200 separate designs. And I think the first 20 I clicked at random looked better than the Warhound.
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after watching the shredder in action on a reddit post. l m a o. so much damage. and btw anyone knows the hp of the thing? and if it hits air?
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200 gas of oracle is a lot more harass for your buck than the same amount of gas going into phoenix, and apparently the oracle is almost as speedy.
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I don't get why Blizzard just didn't bring back Defiler and Lurker...
It's obvious that these two Zerg units are imitations/adaptations of the old units...
Are they embarrassed to bring them back?
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I wonder how good will be the swarm host :S siege tank will easily able to snipe the locust and with the splash do dmg to the zerg army, even with blinding cloud, battle hellion will be able to snipe them quickly
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On October 22 2011 11:59 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:56 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:55 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:51 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:48 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:45 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:43 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:42 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 11:38 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
how will they be bull shit when u have vikings to snipe the vipers from a range of 9? all its going to do is have terrans build vikings earlier which they already do against broodlords anyway. terrans also have the shredders so its not like u terrans have to worry about counter atks anymore... Hey look, corrupters and magic melee range vikings! wonder how this will go! first of all i think the cloud only effects ground units from what ive heard. 2nd of all, u do know u can move vikings out of the cloud range right? derp Hey look, you completely ignored corrupters (again). And moving out of the cloud is still time not shooting, which is going to make them even worse. what are corruptors going to do? u TARGET fire the vipers then kite the corruptors. whats the problem? u seriously think corruptors are good in TvZ? corrupters are air control. Spread vipers, corrupters get to kill the vikings for maybe 2 vipers? Whoop-de-doo time to unsiege and retreat again! lol spreading vipers isnt going to do anything because vikings dont have splash in the first place. not only that but ur main concern is the vipers, not the corruptors. the corrptors are USELESS in zvt. as long as u kill the vipers then that means no more cloud. no more clouds means that the marines will utterly rape any corruptors that ur vikings did not kill. Okay. I'm going to make this really simple for you. let's say you have some vikings trying to snipe some vipers with corrupter cover. Cool, right? Okay. Then you spread the vipers and keep your clump of corrupters on patrol or somesuch. Then~Vikings fly forward, but wait! corrupters! then the vikings kill a viper while getting killzored :o But wait! since you were a responsible zerg, you moved your vipers so that there was space between them, and now the vikings have to move (while being shot) to shoot the next one! and then they die! oooooooooooooooo do you know what point defense drone does? use it with ur vikings, it will do wonders........ PDD does basically what vipers do. i have no idea why you terrans constantly ignore. Because 10-12 corrupters can't snipe a raven before it gets into good range for PDD, and, after that, can't remove all the energy in 1-2 volleys.. What the fuck are you talking about? PDD neutralizes a very specific type and number of shots, and Vipers make EVERYTHING melee. There's a very large difference there. Oh, and guess what, Vipers can also pull shit out of position!
you have no idea what the viper cloud does. for all we know it can only effect ground units and last only 5-10 seconds with a very short radius. you also have no clue what the cast range is on vipers so your cute patrol move corruptors would be useless if the cast range is like 4 or 5.
what i was saying was that PDD gives u enough time to snipe the vipers without u having to worry about corruptors hurting ur vikings. alternativly u can also use hunter seeker misseles since they were buffed last patch.
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I don't see the tempest being used like corsairs because they are so expensive and take so long to get.
They really dont take that long to get. With Chrono, they build in well under a minute. They build only slightly more slowly than Void Rays, and no slower than Colossus. They are definitely not some Carrier, Mothership, BC type thing that takes a lifetime to build.
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I don't get why Blizzard hasn't figured out that toss has Tier 1-2 problem. I don't see how these units address it. The replicant theoretically could, but it's too damned expensive.
EDIT: And for the record, Toss has had a Tier 1-2 problem since beta. This isn't anything new.
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On October 22 2011 12:03 Resistentialism wrote:
200 gas of oracle is a lot more harass for your buck than the same amount of gas going into phoenix, and apparently the oracle is almost as speedy.
compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage.
The oracle looks really really weak.
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Everything looks pretty good except for those god awful maps. Blizzard seems to out-do themselves every time with terrible maps. Have the really devolved into making maps with TWO ENTRANCE NATURALS!! Oh sorry, I guess some optional destructible rocks of doom with stop them any early attack, right? -_- This is just depressing... Really excited for everything! Except for the maps, as usual :[.
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Blizzard lost its imagination.
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On October 22 2011 12:01 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Wondering how the replicant works in terms of copying units and abilities?
It looks like it needs the source of the copy to be within range, so how far is its copy range? Is it anywhere on the map where you have vision of your enemy units?
Wondering also if it has a countdown timer for the copy? Once it depletes do you revert back into a replicant? If not, can you recopy into another unit while you have already replicated already?
The only problem I see with a click copy mode for the replicant is that you could mistakenly end up clicking a marine instead of say a siege tank and you've pretty much waste resources right there. hehe!
How would the tempest fair against a Terran Battlecruiser? Since it has AOE Damage, I'm kind of doubtful it would have a really high dps on a per unit basis. Just curious. Hoping for the release of gameplay videos from Blizzcon if there are. =)
I believe it is melee range - although I could be wrong. In any case, a 200/200 unit which can only copy units at short range seems utterly useless to me - beyond trolling of course.
Also, as I stated before, it seems like Tempests are designed to counter the (non-existent) muta problem in PvZ. I very much doubt they will be able to go toe-to-toe with battlecruisers.
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On October 22 2011 12:05 Crysack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:01 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Wondering how the replicant works in terms of copying units and abilities?
It looks like it needs the source of the copy to be within range, so how far is its copy range? Is it anywhere on the map where you have vision of your enemy units?
Wondering also if it has a countdown timer for the copy? Once it depletes do you revert back into a replicant? If not, can you recopy into another unit while you have already replicated already?
The only problem I see with a click copy mode for the replicant is that you could mistakenly end up clicking a marine instead of say a siege tank and you've pretty much waste resources right there. hehe!
How would the tempest fair against a Terran Battlecruiser? Since it has AOE Damage, I'm kind of doubtful it would have a really high dps on a per unit basis. Just curious. Hoping for the release of gameplay videos from Blizzcon if there are. =) I believe it is melee range - although I could be wrong. In any case, a 200/200 unit which can only copy units at short range seems utterly useless to me - beyond trolling of course. Also, as I stated before, it seems like Tempests are designed to counter the (non-existent) muta problem in PvZ. I very much doubt they will be able to go toe-to-toe with battlecruisers.
it's not melee range.. it is infinite range as long as you have vision
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On October 22 2011 11:56 0neder wrote:
Why is dark swarm superior to the new version? Because w/ dark swarm you could choose to stay in it. With the new version the enemy can just move.
Fungal growth alleviates this issue.
Dark swarm is, however, superior to blinding cloud in terms of flavor and use: while these two abilities function largely the same dark swarm is much easier to cast because you are hitting your own units, while for blinding cloud you have to expose your vipers to try to land cloud on your opponent's units.
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On October 22 2011 11:56 0neder wrote:
Why is dark swarm superior to the new version? Because w/ dark swarm you could choose to stay in it. With the new version the enemy can just move.
Because it's not Dark Swarm. Different abilities are different; just because someone called it Dark Swarm doesn't make it Dark Swarm.
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I don't care about balance, it's not that I don't think the protoss units won't be strong or whatever but this expansion clearly shows that blizzard has no idea what they're doing. The problem with carrier and colossus were that they were both countered by the same thing while having the colossus being stronger than the carrier, that's why no one built the carrier. So they remove it and add another capital ship while keeping the colossus in the game... Such a fucking joke, so now you'll still just spam colossus or they will make this new unit so strong that you will have to spam it and the colossus won't be used instead.
The other two units are just embarrassing.
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On October 22 2011 12:05 Crysack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:01 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Wondering how the replicant works in terms of copying units and abilities?
It looks like it needs the source of the copy to be within range, so how far is its copy range? Is it anywhere on the map where you have vision of your enemy units?
Wondering also if it has a countdown timer for the copy? Once it depletes do you revert back into a replicant? If not, can you recopy into another unit while you have already replicated already?
The only problem I see with a click copy mode for the replicant is that you could mistakenly end up clicking a marine instead of say a siege tank and you've pretty much waste resources right there. hehe!
How would the tempest fair against a Terran Battlecruiser? Since it has AOE Damage, I'm kind of doubtful it would have a really high dps on a per unit basis. Just curious. Hoping for the release of gameplay videos from Blizzcon if there are. =) I believe it is melee range - although I could be wrong. In any case, a 200/200 unit which can only copy units at short range seems utterly useless to me - beyond trolling of course. Also, as I stated before, it seems like Tempests are designed to counter the (non-existent) muta problem in PvZ. I very much doubt they will be able to go toe-to-toe with battlecruisers.
I think it's unlimited range as long as you can see the unit on the minimap.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2011 09:19 roymarthyup wrote:
all the protoss whining about this new zerg unit ETC need to realize that in its current form, protoss got the most insane, ridiculous, absolutely WTF insane buffs in these changes
first of all
Protoss gets MASS RECALL ON NEXUS? WTF? holy god this is extremely powerful and is greater than anything else the other races got. protoss as a race has a main weakness of not being able to move out without risking their base being destroyed in the process. now mass recall is a huge stop to this because you can move out and with some scouting you know exactly how many forces are coming to you and you only recall enough units needed to defend any drops/mutas and continue with your attack
next, protoss can spend 25 energy of the nexus to make FREE PHOTON CANNONS. wtf?? this means toss can pretty much go nexus first every game and never have to worry about 6pool or 8pool or 10pool. you can always have up your gateway in time and then you turn your nexus and pylons into photon cannons wow.
Also, dustin browders description of replicants copy ability being "los" pretty much means it must be mapwide from vision. if replicant needed melee range, browder would have said melee. if replicant needed to be within some sort of 10-15 range then dustin would have said "oh theres a range to it". no instead dustin said "its LOS" meaning the replicant can probably copy anything on the map.
first of all this would be extremely overpowered if it could target SCV's or drones, and you could make your own roach/marauder armies as toss. if its like that it would surely get nerfed. but next this alone is a extremely powerful buff against 1-1-1 strategies. Now protoss can build 200/200 siege tanks which alone is a godsend absolute fix to 1-1-1 and should kill the 1-1-1 strategy against toss and leave open tons of options for toss that werent available.
this is a huge buff to protoss compared to terran getting lol-goliaths (which are probably not as strong as marine/marauder anyway) and lol-battle-hellions. the shredder seems overpowered but i bet collossi can outrange it
and zerg being able to hook collossi with the viper shouldnt be a problem at all considering the buffs protoss got. protoss now have mass recall at any nexus which completely shuts down mutalisks as a tech option, toss can go nexus first every game against zerg and be safe with free photon cannons, and its not like ZvP lategame was some unwinnable situation.... what WAS the problem with protoss in ZvP? simply put, immobility and lack of static defense without spending a bazillion minerals on cannons. toss now has mass recall and free photon cannons that will obliterate zerglings. The description says for 25 energy you get a cannon that it seems does as much dps as photons but only to light units. thats insanely good
also i forgot to mention another thing about mass recall. HOLY GOD. against zerg toss will be able to send out a couple voidrays (or tempests) and kill a zerg base then recall away when reinforcements arrive. protoss will be able to turtle WHILE sending forces around the map to snipe zerg expansions and simply recall those forces if they get in trouble
the tempest is nothing incredible compared to mass recall and free photon cannons (which are the biggest huge buffs).... but its not bad either protoss got a nice addition against zerg in the tempest. its attack damage seems pretty strong and its cost is 300/300 which isnt THAT bad considering most toss are adding in some voidrays into their deathballs anyway against zerg to fight broodlords. well the tempest costs 50 more minerals, 150 more gas than a voidray, but considering its AoE against air it should fare just as good as voids against corrupters and should be a buffer response to broods instead of voidrays based on how its damage looks. so adding tempests and collossi into your deathball will pretty much just be a slightly better option than voidrays
the above is a good write-up to explain how protoss got buffed the most.
SADLY, to all tosses out there, im sure 99% of the strength of all these buffs will be completely ripped apart and neutered before HOTS is released. theres no way blizzard will let these massive buffs to toss go into retail when we see what it does in beta
i thought i should quote myself just 1more time and thats it. just one last time for anyone out there who are thinking tosses are not liking these changes.
as a master protoss player, the oracle unit seems pointless, but we essentially got FREE MOTHERSHIPS (nexus mass recall), FREE PHOTON CANNONS early game (nexus energy spell), and a nice counter to 1-1-1.
the replicator seems like basically a counter to 1-1-1, an ability to spend 200/200 and get a quick infestor or ghost or raven, or also i dont know about the build time but it seems like the replicator has super fast buildtime meaning if a protoss wants to switch into MASS voidrays he can quickly churn out 10 replicators then turn them all into voidrays and considering stargates cost 150/150 it would take forever to make 10 voidrays, but with replicators you can get a fleet of voidrays quickly.
Other than voidrays tho i cant think of any unit the replicator would be good to copy for toss. immortals wouldnt be worth it
the replicator is the perfect counter to 1-1-1
a terran spends 150/100 on factory, 50/25 on tech lab, 150/125 on siege tank, and 100/100 on siege tank upgrade in order to get his first siege tank
protoss can effectively spend 200/200 and get ONE siege tank, which is enough to put an advantage into the tosses favor and hold against any 1-1-1 strategy, not to mention the toss can have immortals to support his ONE siege tank.
and not to mention protoss now gets free photon cannons letting him go nexus first every game against zerg and not fear 6pool. also we get free motherships for TvP and ZvP
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Seriously? A unit that transforms into another unit and has no other purpose? How inspired, seriously where do these guys get their creativity?
A re-asigned overseer? Brilliant
And the new corrupter ability is unbelievably stupid, when the fuck is that going to be useful? How does that ability even make sense? How did we get a visually awesome unit that went from "corrupting" air units to making chunk change from pissing on buildings?
I'm a zerg player but I really feel sorry for the Protoss at this point.
What the hell happened to Blizzard?
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EPT
