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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. |
On October 13 2011 01:40 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 01:35 tribulator wrote:On October 13 2011 01:32 aebriol wrote:On October 13 2011 01:31 tribulator wrote:
Agreed... It's an archaic process somehow still maintained from the time when, unlike all the opportunity we have now to view this shit live, the only way to watch most matches was in the delayed vod form. It's completely unnecessary now, bordering on detrimental to the growth of the scene, as the next logical step in growth and news delivery is a more real-time and open system mimicking that of ESPN and other sports news services. Where in the world do you live that you can watch MLG and GSL live without it interfering with work / school? I can't. I just deal with it the same way I deal with not being able to watch some more traditional sporting events that I happen to enjoy; by recognizing that I can't watch everything, there's too much content for me to consume, and I go on with my day sometimes just by knowing the results. Your inability to deal with the notion that you can't watch everything live and sometimes you just have to move on is unimaginably selfish. Ok ... You are just insane. Seriously. I am saying that I can easily live with having TL spoil the results however they want to. As long as they are consistent. It is easy for me to avoid going to TL before I have watched the vods of all the tournaments I am interested in. But what is annoying is the times when you feel it's safe to go visit TL or other sites that have spoiler policies, and there are tons of spoilers you can't avoid seeing. TL wants to change their policy - do that. Go ahead. Their choice. I'll just visit when I know I am updates on what I want to see. How fucking hard is it for you to understand some people want to decide for themselves whether or not to see spoilers? If this is 'unimaginable selfish' - well, I don't think you can ever have met anyone selfish in your whole llife.
Sick amounts of insane here brohan, all this not expecting the world to cater to my schedule and all.
Decide for yourself then! Don't visit areas of the internet where results can be expected. If I don't want to see the results/see discussion of the last flyers game, I just don't visit ESPN. It's as simple as that.
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Ummmm, maybe there could be a [SPOILER] News Section, where articles get published asap for events, and later get moved to the main news section for archives and easy access. Something like one week buffer time seems reasonable. (why? because some people may be too busy off-weekends)
So if you watched the event and want to see your heroes glorified in a TL article immediately, you go to this section and enjoy. And while you haven't seen the VODs, you stay away from this section.
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I feel like the level of competency of the people browsing TL and watching professional SC is pretty damn high. Therefore, we can all understand the need for these sorts of spoilers. There have always been threads regarding finals / interviews / celebratory events for those who have not watched the games as of yet.
The main reason why TL followed the "spoiler" path was because the majority of the games were played in Korea (BW). As a result, it was all played at night (for those of us in the US). Most TLers had jobs / school, so were forced to watch VODs in the coming days. Hence, they put in the two week no spoiler rule, which I still agree with as I really don't have the time to watch every single event live.
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I actually like the idea that as default, the news would appear on the front page as this could maybe encourage new visitors to give the news a read. But when a registered used logs in, the site automatically could detect his profile and change the front page to something different (if he has selected this option).
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I have thought the same as the OP many times. It just feels akward having spoilers and even worse with the witch hunt of people who has the nerve to actually comment a game we all love...
I say lets HYPE alot more. Show some love to our winners (and others). Lets have big ass pictures of Mana and MC when they win this weekend!
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I think maybe the international community affects it? It seems like most sports leagues target a regional audience, but when it comes to the Olympics, which is as international as it comes, doesn't NBC censor results for the American audience? I get both NBC and CTV/CBC, and it seems like when NBC does their olympic coverage it's always about stuff that happened the previous night.
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I remember years ago I was at this Starbucks in Toronto and across the street outside Chapters (a bookstore) was this huge crowd of people and a long line. Basically, these two kids from out of nowhere start running real fast while shouting "Dumbledore dies!". Next thing I know, kids were literally crying and a few dudes broke off to try and chase the two kids. It wasn't exactly chaotic, but I could tell a lot of people were pretty fucking upset.
So yeah. Spoilers do matter. Not for me, but I'm sure it does for other people. And even if the majority of us don't care, doesn't mean we can start putting results on the front page. Sticking it in the SC2 forums/tournaments with a spoilered title is fine, and any form of results discussion should be okay as well. But frontpage results is taking it too far.
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Totally agree. I hope it will change in the near future.
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I've always thought this aswell, at least like 3-4 days after the event is finished post something.. All the hype up for the event and then nothing about it afterwards.
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Esports is like a baby handle it with utmost care or you'll hurt the poor thing!
And it don't think you should have any spoliers on TL since this is just as much a forum as it is a news site. Not fun for people having to completely avoid TL if they missed an event they'd like to see. Especially when there's people from all over the world visiting it and those events could have been played in the middle of the night.
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This is a really good point. The fear of spoilers evolved when all we had was youtube videos from jon747. Nobody was watching anything live, so naturally you let people watch when they want to and don't spoil the results. But now that sc2 has gone primarily live, it may make sense to abandon that principle.
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Maybe there could be an option for "spoiler mode" where there is no news visible on the site, or it redirects you to the forums instantly when you visit TL bypassing the main page until you decide to go there.
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On October 13 2011 00:59 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I agree with the OP. I'm against censoring open discussion of results for the sake of a few odd people who are "victims" of spoilers. Their habits are weird enough for the rest of us to not care about them and they are obviously the minority. If they want a web site where results aren't openly discussed, they should make their own little niche web site and leave this one alone.
I agree. There was a time when Team Liquid was that niche site. It was in the days of broodwar when it was huge in Korea while the scene was relatively unknown in the rest of the world. The spoiler policy made infinite sence back then. There must have been another issue as well. Everything was in korean so it was hard to access the VoD's if it werent for the links on Team Liquid. I pretty much only watch SC2 but I am still curious whenever an OSL or MSL final is up so I will watch those. Here I have a problem if it wasnt for Team Liquid. How the fuck am I going to watch it? I dont speak korean. My only access is the links on Team Liquid.
In SC2 it is much easier to get access to VoD's. Do I want to watch a GSL that aired while I was at work? No problem, just type in gomtv.net in my browser and I there we go. I am not depent on Team Liquid to find any VoD's. If I got spoilered on the front page on Team Liquid I would simply go to the site where I can find the VoD's, watch them and then do my daily routines on Team Liquid afterwards.
Spoilers made a lot of sence but it is a thing of the past. It is not needed for SC2. I am sure the BW community would still like them though as they are having a harder time accessing the VoD's for their games.
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On October 13 2011 01:45 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 00:43 drcatellino wrote:
I know that there is still a small amount of TLers that really don’t want to be spoiled at all
This is so biased.. Are you capable of showing me the number of people who like spoilers vs the people who don't? Even if someone doesn't care about spoilers for most of the players and there is just that one player that they love and don't want their epic matches to be spoiled, then they care about spoilers because you can't pick and choose which matches are going to have spoilers.
The point is, for those +70 percent of people not caring about spoilers, it's WHATEVER THE MATCH.
There is no special match or special player, where the spoiler will mean anything.
Even in an extreme case of "xXx wins tournament yYy in 7 min with a perfect 4 gate", would i feel any difference towards weather or not i would watch the VOD.
On a sidenote, i do not watch sc2 games for suspense, neither do i watch any other sport for that. I watch to enjoy in shock and awe the skills that people have aquired.
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Take GSL for example. If there're 50k people following GSL, because it's subscription based, maybe only 5k people really have premium accounts with them, and then only 3k people actually care about getting spoiled. I hate it when people actually complain about getting spoiled for something they even don't have access to.
Also I know some people who "I don't want to get spoiled, I just want to read TL news cap". Really? The reason TL news comes 1 week late because of people like them who don't want to get spoiled.
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the OPs example doesnt really hold up. the websites he is talking about are purely news, you go there to find things out. you are going to that website to find out the answer. the spoiler free zone is kind of implied by the nature of the site.
teamliquid is more than a news site, its also (and possibly primarily) a community site. just the same as on the news here(BBC), they tell you to look away if you dont want to see the sports scores before the highlight shows have aired, you dont come to teamliquid for some funny pictures, blogs, and streams to have the latters scores ruined for you.
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Let's all imagine this scenario for a second.
Front page article on the New York Times news and discussion website:
President _______ wins the 2012 election!
After much heated debate and speech action president + Show Spoiler + has became the victor! I can't say anything more than that it was a pretty exciting presidential election run!
Catch the VOD of his victory speech right here!
+ Show Spoiler +
I'd really hate that... Defeats the point of news and slows down discussion by having people dig.
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Totally agree with OP. This "no spoiler" hysteria have been bugging me since I first started browsing TL.
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/Signed and agreed.
People that complain about spoilers can't have an IQ over 80...
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There has never been a better time for this: http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/soc/2011_08spoilers.asp. A study made by the University of California, San Diego, on the impact spoilers have on viewer experience.
I think, when you know the result beforehand, you look at things from a different perspective. You stop trying to figure out "who will win?" or "who is murderer?" in favour of enjoying the way to that point. In the end, if all you are interested in is the excitement of not knowing the outcome, perhaps you're more thrilled by the suspense than what you're actually watching or reading. Nevertheless, the dedicated and consistent viewer is not what e-sport need, most of those people are players that play the game and watch to learn. The big numbers rise when a big part of the population occasionally watch a game or two to cut slack every once in a while, or have a favourite player or team whom they love to follow.
Looking at any other sport, i.e football, knowing the outcome would certainly ruin it for most of the occasional viewers, while only the more dedicated ones are curious about how things ended up the way they did. So ultimately - for e-sports to grow, (which is by giving e-sports more attention in a broader spectrum), spoiler-free websites are a good thing.
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EPT
