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On October 07 2011 12:58 PrideNeverDie wrote:
it says a lot when the first unit preview for the zerg-based expansion is a terran unit. it really shows the difference of time and effort that blizzard puts into terran compared to zerg and protoss.
So the first reveal means they have put more time and effort into that race?
rofl.
Newsflash, terran campaign was the first one released. They are going to announce the units in the same order as the campaigns terran -> zerg -> protoss.
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On October 07 2011 13:00 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 08:49 Mentalizor wrote:On October 07 2011 08:34 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 07 2011 08:30 Ronald_McD wrote:
I really don't think Terran needs more units... Looks cool, though. Units are being removed and added in HOTS. Not just added. Really? Source? And any words about what's being removed? *fingers crossed for marauders* As a terran, its not so much that I want marauders to be removed, but nerfed. Its pretty redicoulus that mass marauder can just 1a into 10 tanks and come out ahead. Also I think Conc is a EZ mode ability. Terran doesn't really need conc. It just makes TvP a hell of alot easier. But its lacking can be overcomed with micro. Its pretty stupid how fast 4 stim marauders take out a base.
concussive shells are the only thing that prevents protoss from being able to over-extend without getting punished before stim finishes, and are the only means of terran pressuring against mass zealot stalker. Marauders killing a base fast, sure whatever, doesn't really make any difference to me, but the fact is, if they don't defend the drop, they're gonna lose shit, nerfing rauders would just allow protoss players to get even further out of position. I mean seriously, you have warp gates, just warp in some units, and bring some stalkers over and you can thwart it away easily... seriously dude, ur just wrong.
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On October 07 2011 05:40 grappasc wrote:
The key question in my opinion is: what units are going to be removed? I recall Browder making it clear they don't like increasing the amount of units. terrans have the biggest number of combat units, so if all races get something new and even zerg is possibly getting overseer or corruptor removed, as people from blizz have hinted, I'm pretty sure terran will lose something.
I would never expect it to be marines, ghosts, tanks, because they're to some extent iconic units. there's a little bit of a mess in the starport department, but I think if they were to force themselves to find something to change about terran, they would look at barracks and factory:
thors didn't become exactly what they wanted, but I think they're okay, even though 250mm will no doubt be changed, if the unit won't be replaced. however, I see reapers, marauders and hellions as the most likely candidates. marauders lack flavor and the MM ball would look much more entertaining if marauders didn't look like just bigger marines. hellions overlap with reapers and reapers never worked out. hellions have been complained about ever since people realized they can blow up all your workers in a matter of seconds, and I recall browder saying they don't think that makes an exciting e-sport to watch either. I don't really have any problems with these units, but I think they're gonna cut something and this is where I think the only possible problems are.
my interpretation of the silhouette, the revamped firebat with 2 mines, would in my opinion make cuts among those units possible. maybe even 2 units from terran could be removed and 2 added. that would be something. and I think especially the nature of firebat would suit this sort of a scenario perfectly, because its role would be a combination of old units' roles. it wouldn't be 1 unit replacing another one, but 2 units replacing 2 units, and I think that's a little easier to balance out than it is to find a perfect, effective 1 for 1 replacement.
also, because the units are introduced in the order they appear in the campaign, we could be seeing a low tier zerg unit next, then more low tier units of any of the 3 races, and later higher tier units of different races. I believe this is what the blue post hinted, and it would also suggest that this is an infantry unit, low tier, which supports my interpretation, that it is indeed a firebat.
revamped firebat with 2 mines on page 91.
edit1: "the more interesting question" -> "the key question"
edit2: "than finding" -> "than it is to find"
"We chose the order based on campaign order. Hint. (chill) Hint."
The new campaign, as far as I know, will be about Kerrigan reuniting zerg. after what happened in WoL, they don't have a leader and they're scattered around. from a gameplay perspective, Kerrigan will be a hero unit we need to learn. in the first missions we'll be introduced to controlling her on the field and outside it( level up choices ).
The first mission is likely to be a small map where Kerrigan runs around rescuing poor little zerglings and spawnlings and broodlings and larvae or whatever the scattered zerg could be. She could also be collecting some important items she needs, but I think there's going to be scattered zerg units nevertheless. Whatever they are, they're threatened by terrans, and this unit here is what is threatening them. would it be a high tier unit? no. it's going to be something we initially deal with Kerrigan, but what we soon deal with our own tier 1 units - possibly roaches, possibly something new.
this unit is the revamped flamebat I posted on page 71. more accurate picture on page 91.
we might even see this unit in the first cutscene. they're going to make it look evil and the zerg units will be so troubled and sympathetic your heart will sink. oh this monstrosity bullying our cuddly, poor little zerglings! oh, Kerrigan! you must do something! what a monster! it's got shields so we can't hit it with our claws! it's waving flame! we hate flame! Kerrigan! ... zoom in, watch the poor lings roast. the noise, the cruelty! hate the monster!
that's how these campaigns work. it might not be flattering, and you might like it, but we feel sympathy for the zerg now. zerg's so cute, isn't it?
so the blizz quote is giving us 2 hints. the first one is about the way the units are chosen, which is much more revealing than one would initially think, and the second one was him saying "chill", because you've just been flamed by the new firebat. don't get so fired up!
I might as well quote myself from page 91, so people won't have to jump around:
On October 06 2011 14:39 grappasc wrote:since my post on page 71 attracted zero attention, I decided to post a more accurate picture than before and include more key text pieces to the picture, so people won't have to bother read what looks like a message on a forum. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mM8rn.jpg)
oh, and if someone thinks it's weird that I'm quoting myself, well my messages here are pretty much a monologue. 99% don't give a flying fuck about what I say, but I know at least 1 person liked my ideas, and if someone else does, it will be easier for him or her to see what I'm talking about if I include some of my older stuff in my message, because it's all connected and you'll miss the bigger picture if you only read 1 of my messages. you argue they could browse my old messages through my profile? I wrote some replies to other people to counter their arguments, so they wouldn't find my stuff very fast. I'm just helping out.
edit1: ... actually you don't have to like my ideas, I would just prefer it if the counter arguments I get would not blatantly show how they ignored most of what I've said. this way the argument could be more constructive.
edit2: the image looks strange if you look at it as if the barrels are in front of the cannon. the cannon is between them and under it is its machinery. the barrels aren't touching the person directly. instead they're inside the backpack.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
@grappasc
to be honest this conjectured plate with flamethrower on top looks weird. is it sotuated behind the fuel tanks in your opinion?
what could be the purpose of such a huge plate behind man's back?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 07 2011 14:30 pzea469 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 18:39 Pwnographics wrote:
To be honest, I'd be very disappointed it was another transforming unit.
I want Terran - not transformers. The viking is enough as it is, it's one of the most boring units in the game. It's not the viking's fault though. Blame goes to the collossus.
Hm, the viking is super problematic... Its KINDA cool in mech TvT, as long as you dont get two sides massing vikings because then it becomes..... the most boring shit ever with 0 micro. Being so long range and slow kinda makes battles between them not the most exciting ever.
In small numbers its kinda fun, you can transform to dodge missiles if you do it perfectly, save red HP vikings.
Im not sure what they can do about it exactly. Also, its kinda terrible vs bio but would be a lot more useful on the ground if marauders didnt exist =p
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That actually looks like some kind of Gholiat to me (AA detection at the top) which could be a nice replacement for the Viking : )
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On October 07 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:
@grappasc
to be honest this conjectured plate with flamethrower on top looks weird. is it sotuated behind the fuel tanks in your opinion?
what could be the purpose of such a huge plate behind man's back?
it does look very strange if you look at it like that.
the cannon is not behind the barrels, it's above and between them. the barrels are probably not directly in touch with the persons body, but inside the backpack.
the thing about the lines is that I was only pointing out there's barrels, which suit the flavor of a flamethrower unit. they're probably inside the backpack, but they're in a position where you can easily pull them out and replace them. it's a design choice. between the barrels is the machinery for the cannon. the cannon might rotate, the fuel might need processing. there are possible explanations. I don't find them far-fetched, either.
it's just a silhouette after all, and I could only point out what the pieces forming the silhouette are.
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I like this image:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0mnRg.jpg)
Saw it somewhere else, not my work, not sure if it's been mentioned.
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On October 07 2011 17:36 aebriol wrote:I like this image: Saw it somewhere else, not my work, not sure if it's been mentioned.
Maybe You read the opening post?
I still think its a Hellion transformer. Hopefully to tank a lot of Damage to cure a bit of TvP. Please be a light Unit. Immortals are stupid enough in TvP Mech
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just thought I should make it clearer
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e4ZGQ.jpg)
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On October 07 2011 17:45 Tppz! wrote:
I still think its a Hellion transformer. Hopefully to tank a lot of Damage to cure a bit of TvP. Please be a light Unit. Immortals are stupid enough in TvP Mech
haha, now I feel like an idiot  It wasn't in the opening post when I saw it somewher else last night I think so at least, ugh. Sorry ...
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On October 07 2011 17:48 grappasc wrote:just thought I should make it clearer
Jeez, let it go already. You've made your point.
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On October 07 2011 16:26 CatNzHat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 13:00 GinDo wrote:On October 07 2011 08:49 Mentalizor wrote:On October 07 2011 08:34 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 07 2011 08:30 Ronald_McD wrote:
I really don't think Terran needs more units... Looks cool, though. Units are being removed and added in HOTS. Not just added. Really? Source? And any words about what's being removed? *fingers crossed for marauders* As a terran, its not so much that I want marauders to be removed, but nerfed. Its pretty redicoulus that mass marauder can just 1a into 10 tanks and come out ahead. Also I think Conc is a EZ mode ability. Terran doesn't really need conc. It just makes TvP a hell of alot easier. But its lacking can be overcomed with micro. Its pretty stupid how fast 4 stim marauders take out a base. concussive shells are the only thing that prevents protoss from being able to over-extend without getting punished before stim finishes, and are the only means of terran pressuring against mass zealot stalker. Marauders killing a base fast, sure whatever, doesn't really make any difference to me, but the fact is, if they don't defend the drop, they're gonna lose shit, nerfing rauders would just allow protoss players to get even further out of position. I mean seriously, you have warp gates, just warp in some units, and bring some stalkers over and you can thwart it away easily... seriously dude, ur just wrong.
What the fuck..!?
I'm not really sure, but don't 8 Marauders kill a nexus faster than a warp- in cycle (5 secs), at least, I know that if I get 8 Marauders in without the main army near, I'll kill a nexus and maybe a few pylons, no micro required...!?
Seriously, the bias of all these players is so incredilly retarded...
No this is underpowered because (it is my race's) you can do this and this and this and it is dead.
marines are UP because Banelings and Infestors kill them.
Mariens are UP Because Collosi and Templar and Archon own them AHHAHAHAHHA BUUF MARINE NERFNF>.
So pathetic
Enough of that, I'm still with Firebat / Stanford kindo medic thing > Gayrauder
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On October 07 2011 17:52 GrungyMunchy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 17:48 grappasc wrote:just thought I should make it clearer Jeez, let it go already. You've made your point.
your comment was unjustified, uncalled for and counterproductive
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On October 07 2011 17:58 grappasc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 17:52 GrungyMunchy wrote:On October 07 2011 17:48 grappasc wrote:just thought I should make it clearer Jeez, let it go already. You've made your point. your comment was unjustified, uncalled for and counterproductive
You sound like this discussion is a matter of national security lol. You've already shown your speculation, now let it go. It's not like we won't know what it is 2 weeks from now anyways.
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On October 07 2011 17:53 ToastieNL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 16:26 CatNzHat wrote:On October 07 2011 13:00 GinDo wrote:On October 07 2011 08:49 Mentalizor wrote:On October 07 2011 08:34 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 07 2011 08:30 Ronald_McD wrote:
I really don't think Terran needs more units... Looks cool, though. Units are being removed and added in HOTS. Not just added. Really? Source? And any words about what's being removed? *fingers crossed for marauders* As a terran, its not so much that I want marauders to be removed, but nerfed. Its pretty redicoulus that mass marauder can just 1a into 10 tanks and come out ahead. Also I think Conc is a EZ mode ability. Terran doesn't really need conc. It just makes TvP a hell of alot easier. But its lacking can be overcomed with micro. Its pretty stupid how fast 4 stim marauders take out a base. concussive shells are the only thing that prevents protoss from being able to over-extend without getting punished before stim finishes, and are the only means of terran pressuring against mass zealot stalker. Marauders killing a base fast, sure whatever, doesn't really make any difference to me, but the fact is, if they don't defend the drop, they're gonna lose shit, nerfing rauders would just allow protoss players to get even further out of position. I mean seriously, you have warp gates, just warp in some units, and bring some stalkers over and you can thwart it away easily... seriously dude, ur just wrong. What the fuck..!? I'm not really sure, but don't 8 Marauders kill a nexus faster than a warp- in cycle (5 secs), at least, I know that if I get 8 Marauders in without the main army near, I'll kill a nexus and maybe a few pylons, no micro required...!?
8 stimmed Marauders do 160 damage every (SC2) second. A Nexus has a total of 2000 HP+shields. That's ~13 seconds of shooting. Upgrades change this number, but not that much.
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On October 07 2011 18:02 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 17:53 ToastieNL wrote:On October 07 2011 16:26 CatNzHat wrote:On October 07 2011 13:00 GinDo wrote:On October 07 2011 08:49 Mentalizor wrote:On October 07 2011 08:34 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 07 2011 08:30 Ronald_McD wrote:
I really don't think Terran needs more units... Looks cool, though. Units are being removed and added in HOTS. Not just added. Really? Source? And any words about what's being removed? *fingers crossed for marauders* As a terran, its not so much that I want marauders to be removed, but nerfed. Its pretty redicoulus that mass marauder can just 1a into 10 tanks and come out ahead. Also I think Conc is a EZ mode ability. Terran doesn't really need conc. It just makes TvP a hell of alot easier. But its lacking can be overcomed with micro. Its pretty stupid how fast 4 stim marauders take out a base. concussive shells are the only thing that prevents protoss from being able to over-extend without getting punished before stim finishes, and are the only means of terran pressuring against mass zealot stalker. Marauders killing a base fast, sure whatever, doesn't really make any difference to me, but the fact is, if they don't defend the drop, they're gonna lose shit, nerfing rauders would just allow protoss players to get even further out of position. I mean seriously, you have warp gates, just warp in some units, and bring some stalkers over and you can thwart it away easily... seriously dude, ur just wrong. What the fuck..!? I'm not really sure, but don't 8 Marauders kill a nexus faster than a warp- in cycle (5 secs), at least, I know that if I get 8 Marauders in without the main army near, I'll kill a nexus and maybe a few pylons, no micro required...!? 8 stimmed Marauders do 160 damage every (SC2) second. A Nexus has a total of 2000 HP+shields. That's ~13 seconds of shooting. Upgrades change this number, but not that much.
are these numbers correct? do stimmed maruaders shoot once per sc2second? I almost feel like they fire faster
we know for sure the damage is 20*8 damage per volley, so the real dps is 160 * (volleys per second).
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On October 07 2011 17:58 grappasc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 17:52 GrungyMunchy wrote:On October 07 2011 17:48 grappasc wrote:just thought I should make it clearer Jeez, let it go already. You've made your point. your comment was unjustified, uncalled for and counterproductive
Maybe you should post your image a few more times in case nobody saw it.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On October 07 2011 18:10 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 18:02 Rannasha wrote:On October 07 2011 17:53 ToastieNL wrote:On October 07 2011 16:26 CatNzHat wrote:On October 07 2011 13:00 GinDo wrote:On October 07 2011 08:49 Mentalizor wrote:On October 07 2011 08:34 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 07 2011 08:30 Ronald_McD wrote:
I really don't think Terran needs more units... Looks cool, though. Units are being removed and added in HOTS. Not just added. Really? Source? And any words about what's being removed? *fingers crossed for marauders* As a terran, its not so much that I want marauders to be removed, but nerfed. Its pretty redicoulus that mass marauder can just 1a into 10 tanks and come out ahead. Also I think Conc is a EZ mode ability. Terran doesn't really need conc. It just makes TvP a hell of alot easier. But its lacking can be overcomed with micro. Its pretty stupid how fast 4 stim marauders take out a base. concussive shells are the only thing that prevents protoss from being able to over-extend without getting punished before stim finishes, and are the only means of terran pressuring against mass zealot stalker. Marauders killing a base fast, sure whatever, doesn't really make any difference to me, but the fact is, if they don't defend the drop, they're gonna lose shit, nerfing rauders would just allow protoss players to get even further out of position. I mean seriously, you have warp gates, just warp in some units, and bring some stalkers over and you can thwart it away easily... seriously dude, ur just wrong. What the fuck..!? I'm not really sure, but don't 8 Marauders kill a nexus faster than a warp- in cycle (5 secs), at least, I know that if I get 8 Marauders in without the main army near, I'll kill a nexus and maybe a few pylons, no micro required...!? 8 stimmed Marauders do 160 damage every (SC2) second. A Nexus has a total of 2000 HP+shields. That's ~13 seconds of shooting. Upgrades change this number, but not that much. are these numbers correct? do stimmed maruaders shoot once per sc2second? I almost feel like they fire faster we know for sure the damage is 20*8 damage per volley, so the real dps is 160 * (volleys per second).
Using sc2 game time to real time conversion, 8 marauders take 10 seconds to kill a nexus with 0 attack, but 8 seconds with 3 attack.
8 seconds. Even if you warp in 25 zealots instantly, that takes 3.6 seconds, you cant kill them in time to stop the nexus dropping. That is the reason why a lot of people complain.
Paired with the fact that concussive shell is really unneccesary and removes almost all micro potential, it is just an annoying unit to most people.
I honestly think concussive shells could be removed with almost zero impact on PvT, if anything maybe give P the ability to extend a bit more in early game, which would not hurt, given their current gsl status
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EPT
