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Spawn Larva Overlay Trainer

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-06 03:24:07
October 02 2011 01:41 GMT
#1
UPDATE: I have updated the program to display a context menu when right-clicked, for more functionality. You can now stop the timer this way, if you like.

http://www.mediafire.com/?g3i40lzgykguk7q

Here are the previous versions:
+ Show Spoiler +
LarvaTimer with sound but no context menu: http://www.mediafire.com/?co9a6oi6u2o93ap
LarvaTimer with no sound and no context menu: http://www.mediafire.com/?bp5drsyidvvw4d6



Someone PMed me asking for the source, so instead of giving it only to him, I thought I would upload it as well and make it available to anyone interested. Anyways here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2gpn5l04q2l8cdg

Hello TL!

Lately I've been on a coding frenzy of sorts, and I've been coding up all sorts of things for fun. One of them is this: an overlay timer that helps train your spawn larva timing. Since this is an external program that has no hooks into SC2 at all, it is perfectly legal. Whether or not it is "ethical" to use is another matter entirely and up to your discretion. I did a search of the TL forums to see if anyone has made anything similar, and I couldn't find anything, so hopefully this is a well-received contribution.

This is very basic java program, so the explanation for it will be short. The interface is very minimal. The window is semi-transparent and black with a white border around it. The window itself sits on top of all other windows, which enables you to see it while playing. You can move where you want it by left-clicking and dragging the window. To begin the timer, simply double-click anywhere inside the box. After 29 seconds the box will flash rapidly between red and yellow for a short time, serving as a more vibrant visual reminder to inject your hatcheries. If you are late on injecting for some reason, you can double-click anywhere inside the box again to reset the timer.

You can also stop/start/restart the timer by right-clicking anywhere in the box and opening the context menu.

As a sidenote about the sound, it will play whatever your system's default sound is, so if you disabled that, it won't play anything.

To close the window, you can do one of two things:

1. Right-click on the icon on the taskbar and click 'Close'

2. Right-click anywhere inside the box and click exit.

NOTE: This does NOT work if SC2 is set to full screen mode. It must be set in one of the two windowed modes.
MartynX
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom122 Posts
October 02 2011 01:44 GMT
#2
What's the point? It makes you a lazy and bad player + you can not use it at live events. Also stuff happens in game that can affect the timings and they are not always lined up with each other.
Pisko.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
October 02 2011 01:47 GMT
#3
Whatever happened to just practicing? lol...
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
DeepBlu2
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States975 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 01:47:34
October 02 2011 01:47 GMT
#4
I'm not interested in this personally, although it is very useful. I just wanted to warn you that there have been many, many basic and java scripts written and posted on here and received a majority of negative feedback. I'm just here to warn you before that negative feedback comes in the mass along with the discussion of whether or not this is cheating because that also happens in every one of these types of threads. Again, it's definitely useful, just wanted to warn you.
u gotta sk8
dmasterding
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States205 Posts
October 02 2011 01:48 GMT
#5
I'd like to see a Macro or Die custom map variant that nukes your bases whenever your hatcheries have been non injected for a certain amount of time or something.
No tears now, only dreams.
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 01:50:37
October 02 2011 01:49 GMT
#6
On October 02 2011 10:48 dmasterding wrote:
I'd like to see a Macro or Die custom map variant that nukes your bases whenever your hatcheries have been non injected for a certain amount of time or something.


That's another reason I decided to make this. I searched the custom maps on battle.net, and I was surprised to discover there were NO larva inject trainer maps. =/


On October 02 2011 10:44 MartynX wrote:
What's the point? It makes you a lazy and bad player + you can not use it at live events. Also stuff happens in game that can affect the timings and they are not always lined up with each other.


How does this make you a lazy and bad player? By that logic, anyone who uses a metronome is a lazy and bad player.
Yiska
Profile Joined November 2010
141 Posts
October 02 2011 01:52 GMT
#7
I'll try it out Thanks.
Draconicfire
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2562 Posts
October 02 2011 01:55 GMT
#8
I'm pretty sure something like this isn't allowed. It's gonna be hard for Blizz to actually catch you using it though.

On the other hand, theres a multitasking trainer map that was posted here since like beta that has a larva inject trainer built into it. If your energy gets too high you lose.
@Drayxs | Drayxs.221 | Drayxs#1802
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 02 2011 01:57 GMT
#9
On October 02 2011 10:55 Draconicfire wrote:
I'm pretty sure something like this isn't allowed. It's gonna be hard for Blizz to actually catch you using it though.

On the other hand, theres a multitasking trainer map that was posted here since like beta that has a larva inject trainer built into it. If your energy gets too high you lose.


Oh really? It must not have a name related to spawn larva. Would you mind providing the name of that map? I'd like to check it out.
betaflame
Profile Joined November 2010
175 Posts
October 02 2011 02:00 GMT
#10
Say you go off some of your injects, the timing will be off on the alert so you should make it so that it times itself based on your last inject (everytime you press v, it resets to 0?).

Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 02 2011 02:05 GMT
#11
On October 02 2011 11:00 betaflame wrote:
Say you go off some of your injects, the timing will be off on the alert so you should make it so that it times itself based on your last inject (everytime you press v, it resets to 0?).



1. You can already reset it really easily

2. If I did that, then it would screw up every time you made an overlord
Alpino
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil4390 Posts
October 02 2011 02:06 GMT
#12
Don't like it, that's not how you get good at sc2. But hey gotta code some stuff I guess.
20/11/2015 - never forget EE's Ember
Parodoxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States549 Posts
October 02 2011 02:09 GMT
#13
On October 02 2011 10:48 dmasterding wrote:
I'd like to see a Macro or Die custom map variant that nukes your bases whenever your hatcheries have been non injected for a certain amount of time or something.

This is a good idea for lower levels, allow you to select your difficulty and raise the quota of sorts.

For example, Easy Mode- Have an income of 600 mineral a min by X time and Y population by X time
Hard Mode- Have an Income of 2000 mineral a min by X time and Y population by X time


This is a great tool that can be catered to each race and would be an amazing tool for practice and coaching alike. With an in-depth enough program this could be amazing, can someone make this happen??
ePdeLay
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Australia220 Posts
October 02 2011 02:10 GMT
#14
Hey give this guy some credit, I think its really creative and could be useful for lower league players to get into the habit.
hooktits
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States972 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 02:18:27
October 02 2011 02:14 GMT
#15
lol these comments are ridiculous, thx xanbatou im not sure what blizzard would say but none the less im sure its a great tool to help teach the mind to better inject. After using it X amount of times i would think that eventually u would no longer need the timer. I think it would be exteamly helpful for lower level players or anybody to improve their game, It would help lower levels realize that during a battle instead of staring at the battle perhaps it would help get into the rhythm of injecting when they don't usually inject. Im gunna check it out very cool idea.

Edit: by the way i really really like the idea of adding the sound option, say allow it to play certain .wav or whatever as well as have the red and yellow inject sign. Very well done though great training tool for any body who misses injects.. which is pretty much everyone even pros miss injects.
Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 02:20:10
October 02 2011 02:19 GMT
#16
On October 02 2011 10:44 MartynX wrote:
What's the point? It makes you a lazy and bad player + you can not use it at live events. Also stuff happens in game that can affect the timings and they are not always lined up with each other.

Well I have no opinion on this little prog either way but a post like this makes me wonder just how many people in this forum are out there play at live events. (or a wannabe)
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
October 02 2011 02:23 GMT
#17
Wow, so many elitists here. How does a practising aid make you bad and lazy? People pay big money to pro players to coach them during play, and mostly what the pro players end up doing is exactly what this program would do, yell at you every inject cycle.

Props, I'll try it out. I spend a lot of time THINKING about starcraft, watching it, but my mechanics hold me back, especially in ZvZ where your opponent can REALLY force you to micro or else die.. It's easy to say "Don't micro, go home and macro" but for those of us who don't practice 8 hours a day and have the timings ingrained into our minds and souls, this will be very helpful.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
October 02 2011 02:28 GMT
#18
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 02 2011 02:33 GMT
#19
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.


yeah, pretty much qft. stop trying to side-step the problem and just do it normally.
The universe created an audience for itself.
TitleRug
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States651 Posts
October 02 2011 02:36 GMT
#20
nice work programming this. thanks for sharing
coLCruncher fighting!
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
October 02 2011 02:40 GMT
#21
On October 02 2011 11:33 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.


yeah, pretty much qft. stop trying to side-step the problem and just do it normally.


Dude. I'm so tired of seeing people pretending that they are too high and mighty to learn starcraft by doing anything but mass ladder games. More importantly, I doubt either of you are grandmasters zergs (sorry if im wrong) and so you're talking out your ass if you think you know about high level practising methods.

Are you opposed to coaching? If I paid Destiny to coach me, he would do exactly what this addon does. There are indeed custom maps that do similar things.

Do you think that if you spend hours practising with this, and then take it away, that suddenly you wouldn't be able to macro? It's a practising aid... a lot of players use things like this. Real life timers. There are cell phone applications you can run outside of your computer totally.. As someone else said, it's like someone practising music using a metronome.


Just seems like this community is full of bitter, unhelpful elitists sometimes.
SkimGuy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada709 Posts
October 02 2011 02:58 GMT
#22
There's nothing wrong with using programs like this when you're laddering and whatnot, but it doesn't really help you become a better player. People are good players because they remember the little things like larva injects while doing all the other things extremely well, that's what separates good players from great players.

Who do you think is the better player - Someone who hits all their larva injects because of hours of practicing their mechanics, or a player who uses a program to tell them when to inject? Do we really want to promote even less skill in this game?
Pisko.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
October 02 2011 03:04 GMT
#23
On October 02 2011 11:40 darkscream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 11:33 Mortal wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.


yeah, pretty much qft. stop trying to side-step the problem and just do it normally.


Dude. I'm so tired of seeing people pretending that they are too high and mighty to learn starcraft by doing anything but mass ladder games. More importantly, I doubt either of you are grandmasters zergs (sorry if im wrong) and so you're talking out your ass if you think you know about high level practising methods.

Are you opposed to coaching? If I paid Destiny to coach me, he would do exactly what this addon does. There are indeed custom maps that do similar things.

Do you think that if you spend hours practising with this, and then take it away, that suddenly you wouldn't be able to macro? It's a practising aid... a lot of players use things like this. Real life timers. There are cell phone applications you can run outside of your computer totally.. As someone else said, it's like someone practising music using a metronome.


Just seems like this community is full of bitter, unhelpful elitists sometimes.

Or you could, you know, use the in game clock as a timer instead of relying on random programs.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 02 2011 04:27 GMT
#24
On October 02 2011 12:04 Pisko. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 11:40 darkscream wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:33 Mortal wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.


yeah, pretty much qft. stop trying to side-step the problem and just do it normally.


Dude. I'm so tired of seeing people pretending that they are too high and mighty to learn starcraft by doing anything but mass ladder games. More importantly, I doubt either of you are grandmasters zergs (sorry if im wrong) and so you're talking out your ass if you think you know about high level practising methods.

Are you opposed to coaching? If I paid Destiny to coach me, he would do exactly what this addon does. There are indeed custom maps that do similar things.

Do you think that if you spend hours practising with this, and then take it away, that suddenly you wouldn't be able to macro? It's a practising aid... a lot of players use things like this. Real life timers. There are cell phone applications you can run outside of your computer totally.. As someone else said, it's like someone practising music using a metronome.


Just seems like this community is full of bitter, unhelpful elitists sometimes.

Or you could, you know, use the in game clock as a timer instead of relying on random programs.


That's silly to say. If you can remember to look at the clock every 29 seconds, then why wouldn't you just be injecting your hatches instead of looking at the clock?
Pisko.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
October 02 2011 05:29 GMT
#25
On October 02 2011 13:27 Xanbatou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 12:04 Pisko. wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:40 darkscream wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:33 Mortal wrote:
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.


yeah, pretty much qft. stop trying to side-step the problem and just do it normally.


Dude. I'm so tired of seeing people pretending that they are too high and mighty to learn starcraft by doing anything but mass ladder games. More importantly, I doubt either of you are grandmasters zergs (sorry if im wrong) and so you're talking out your ass if you think you know about high level practising methods.

Are you opposed to coaching? If I paid Destiny to coach me, he would do exactly what this addon does. There are indeed custom maps that do similar things.

Do you think that if you spend hours practising with this, and then take it away, that suddenly you wouldn't be able to macro? It's a practising aid... a lot of players use things like this. Real life timers. There are cell phone applications you can run outside of your computer totally.. As someone else said, it's like someone practising music using a metronome.


Just seems like this community is full of bitter, unhelpful elitists sometimes.

Or you could, you know, use the in game clock as a timer instead of relying on random programs.


That's silly to say. If you can remember to look at the clock every 29 seconds, then why wouldn't you just be injecting your hatches instead of looking at the clock?

That's not how you use the clock lol
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Kryptonite
Profile Joined June 2010
United States155 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 05:39:06
October 02 2011 05:36 GMT
#26
On October 02 2011 11:58 SkimGuy wrote:
There's nothing wrong with using programs like this when you're laddering and whatnot, but it doesn't really help you become a better player. People are good players because they remember the little things like larva injects while doing all the other things extremely well, that's what separates good players from great players.

Who do you think is the better player - Someone who hits all their larva injects because of hours of practicing their mechanics, or a player who uses a program to tell them when to inject? Do we really want to promote even less skill in this game?


This is just false. A big part of multi-tasking is being able to do things without having to think twice about them. Once you get in the "habit" of doing things, it becomes second nature. This device allows you get in the habit of injecting constantly, any people who are opposing it are just being ignorant.

You guys basically sound like "You need to learn how to inject like a man through hours and hours of games! Not through more efficient methods of training!" - Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?

Now I'll try this out, but I already have injects down pretty pat so it might not help especially since I'll have to reset the timer which will use up costly APM but for lower level players, I definitely recommend this.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
October 02 2011 05:41 GMT
#27
While I think for use as a training tool something like this doesn't hurt...a lot will use it as a laziness tool in game which is actually cheating. If blizzard ever felt like adding a program such as this to their detection software built into battle.net, using such a thing 'could' get you banned while laddering.

Not to say the OP doesn't have his thought in the right place, just that it's really obvious a bunch of people will abuse this on ladder to make up for lack of skill/awareness.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
October 02 2011 06:15 GMT
#28
or you can just watch the left of your screen for the larva icon to pop up...? it seems like most people still don't even realize it's useful even a year after release lol
Sveet
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
October 02 2011 06:21 GMT
#29
Lol anyone who thinks this wont help... You never learned to ride a bike with training wheels? Learning aids help. If you use this for a week, at the end of the week you could turn it off and your brain will naturally remember when it needs to inject.
Kolvacs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1203 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 06:26:19
October 02 2011 06:25 GMT
#30
The point of this timer (or any time of the sort) is to train your brain to be aware when you need to re-inject larva. Eventually, you will get use to the timings of when you need to inject and then you won't need the program.

Why are so many people against programs that obviously help you. If you don't have something nice to say then piss the fuck off.
StaplerPhone
Profile Joined March 2011
United States813 Posts
October 02 2011 06:29 GMT
#31
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.

I'm confused, I thought this was helping with mechanics o.o Its reminding you to inject meaning that you get used to injecting on time.
When I play piano I use the metronome to practice and when I get used to the rhythm I stop. Basically the same isn't it?
NaDa | MC | HerO | DeMusliM | TaeJa | viOLet
SCbiff
Profile Joined May 2010
110 Posts
October 02 2011 06:31 GMT
#32
I don't think it's a bad thing for people who are learning. At some point, obviously, you're going to want to break the habit or I think it could impact your play for the negative if, for whatever reason, you don't have it some time (lan party?).

I would definitely question the ethics of playing with it against somebody else, but I don't see it as a huge issue personally.
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
October 02 2011 06:35 GMT
#33
l2p

User was temp banned for this post.
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
Phlatline
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Croatia176 Posts
October 02 2011 06:48 GMT
#34
i think this could be good for practice reasons. Just to make your mind remember how often to inject. After a while you could do it without the program probably
hasuwar
Profile Joined April 2003
7365 Posts
October 02 2011 06:54 GMT
#35
I like how people reference the inability to use such programs at a lan. like 1% MAYBE ever go to a lan to play, and if you're ever going to a lan that cares about something like this, like a big tournament, obviously you've out grown it already, or you don't belong there.

All the haters are just as stupid, you don't need it, you don't download it. You don't talk shit about it, because it will help someone, and they'll probably get better than you.

I'm sure none of you new school sc2 players remember it, but all the old ones can confirm how APM live increased their APM in SC:BW. But hey, things like this don't help you learn the game faster.
Diablo3 ID: Exalted#1710 -------R.I.P. http://hasuwar.isgsa.org. Much love to Toptalent
holycrapitsTony
Profile Joined October 2010
United States330 Posts
October 02 2011 07:10 GMT
#36
On October 02 2011 15:54 hasuwar wrote: I'm sure none of you new school sc2 players remember it, but all the old ones can confirm how APM live increased their APM in SC:BW. But hey, things like this don't help you learn the game faster.


Yeah, I'm too new school to remember this sort of thing. I imagine it helps though.

I was very critical of when there was one released here for MULE timings, so I can't say I approve of this either. I won't demand others not use it though. It's bound to help some people.
NYE: when the match loading screen comes up "zvz" it's like finding out you have hiv
Pisko.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
October 02 2011 07:13 GMT
#37
On October 02 2011 15:54 hasuwar wrote:
I like how people reference the inability to use such programs at a lan. like 1% MAYBE ever go to a lan to play, and if you're ever going to a lan that cares about something like this, like a big tournament, obviously you've out grown it already, or you don't belong there.

All the haters are just as stupid, you don't need it, you don't download it. You don't talk shit about it, because it will help someone, and they'll probably get better than you.

I'm sure none of you new school sc2 players remember it, but all the old ones can confirm how APM live increased their APM in SC:BW. But hey, things like this don't help you learn the game faster.

If you're using it to practice it's fine, but I think most people are hating it because they're seeing it as "use this program to tell you when to inject larvae instead of actually learning the timing." I always learned timings from just looking at the clock (which IMO is the better way to learn) but if you think this is better for you then go ahead.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
October 02 2011 07:17 GMT
#38
guess i'll just post here one more time. people who say this won't help or it will make you worse once you let it go, etc, you're honestly 100% ignorant. you have never had a coach or trainer in your life, and if you have and you still say this is poor training, then you really must not be very bright to not see this as a version of the same thing.

say you use this for a month, and you're brand new to starcraft. after a month of using this, you never miss an inject when it tells you, then you stop. you will feel slightly weird about it not being there when you first give it up, but it will literally take only a few days for you to inject almost as well as you were when you had the trainer. compared to making no deliberate effort to improve injects whatsoever and blindly mass gaming, the help is immense.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 07:21:38
October 02 2011 07:20 GMT
#39
i play protoss but i don't see whats wrong with this. Its to keep track of timings and its not like I don't keep a beeper thing going for warpgate cooldown reminding outside of my computer system

edit - ethically at least. Id imagine it is bannable by blizzard since it is an outside program which does actually interact with sc2 since thats its whole purpose
hihihi
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 07:25:47
October 02 2011 07:22 GMT
#40
I'm going to post some of my own experiences with this. I actually just made this today, so I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but after a few games, it really made me realize something. Whenever I am in some sort of engagement or doing any sort of harass, I very rarely remember to inject my hatches. I get so focused on what I'm doing that I just don't even think about it. That has often lost me games. I can't even count how many games I would have won if I had another round of units at my disposal.


On October 02 2011 16:20 askTeivospy wrote:
i play protoss but i don't see whats wrong with this. Its to keep track of timings and its not like I don't keep a beeper thing going for warpgate cooldown reminding outside of my computer system

edit - ethically at least. Id imagine it is bannable by blizzard since it is an outside program which does actually interact with sc2 since thats its whole purpose


It doesn't interact with sc2 at all. In fact, it has no idea of the existence of any other programs. It's simply a window that sits on top of all other windows, which is why you can interact with it while playing. Which makes me wonder if this program works in full-screen mode. I only ever run sc2 in windowed mode.
Soulish
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1403 Posts
October 02 2011 08:26 GMT
#41
On October 02 2011 11:05 Xanbatou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 11:00 betaflame wrote:
Say you go off some of your injects, the timing will be off on the alert so you should make it so that it times itself based on your last inject (everytime you press v, it resets to 0?).



1. You can already reset it really easily

2. If I did that, then it would screw up every time you made an overlord

set it to everytime u press a userdefined hotkey and then v. it would be less accurate with more hatcheries, but its a good way
me all in, he drone drone drone, me win
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 12:31:29
October 03 2011 12:30 GMT
#42
On October 02 2011 10:44 MartynX wrote:
What's the point? It makes you a lazy and bad player + you can not use it at live events. Also stuff happens in game that can affect the timings and they are not always lined up with each other.


It's called dedicated practice. Whatever level you are as Zerg, you can always improve your inject larva timing. NOBODY nails all their injects, 100% of time, which is normal because stuff happens in game and it might be more important to defend an attack with good micro than to inject 3 seconds sooner.

Instead of spending 50 games focusing on sort of nailing your injects, this program can help you get them 100% on time. Hell, you'll probably lose some games by being so focused on injects, but that's not the point. It won't take very long for you to 'feel' the time to inject when you spent so much time getting them perfectly. It's also really hard to gain that 'feel' by just going back to your base or checking your queen energy and going hm, not quite yet, or oh I was a little late...you know what I mean.

I think this program can help people a lot who want to dedicate some practice to inject. It's an integral part of all zerg gameplay, and has to be worked on consistently. It's not ezpz like mules or chronoboost though larva inject is incredibly rewarding once you master it.

Thanks OP. I'll try it tonight!

EDIT :
The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.


D= this might be beyond your control but just sayin in case you hadn't noticed...i'll dl it later I guess ^^
Try another route paperboy.
Calvin[Deck]
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark88 Posts
October 03 2011 12:41 GMT
#43
When i try to download:

"The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later."
wheelchairs
Profile Joined February 2010
United States145 Posts
October 03 2011 12:45 GMT
#44
this is already used by a lot of people, most of the people that make hacks for sc2 also make overlays for macro training, I have seen and used a zerg one that beeps and tells you to inject.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 12:50:32
October 03 2011 12:47 GMT
#45
Very cool program! Sounds like a good way to learn the spawn larva rhythm!

And don't mind the elitist trolls in these forums. They're just angry they're gonna lose ladder points to players with better decision making and "worse" mechanics.
Bora Pain minha porra!
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
October 03 2011 13:01 GMT
#46
Practically identical in concept, Zergkekekeke came up with some batch files which was discussed some months ago for Terran building SCVs:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=243799

My opinion was then, as it is now, that this should be discouraged and custom maps used as a more flexible alternative in a practice rather than competitive context.

Then the thread descended in to flaming, no one reached an agreement and the thread died.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
Broxxi
Profile Joined June 2010
Norway48 Posts
October 03 2011 13:41 GMT
#47
Thank you!

And to all you haters. If you wan't to use custom maps, if you want to play ladder games without any timer, if you want to look at the ingame clock, if you want to look at the "larva popped" news ticker thingy or if you want to use this application does not matter.

In the grand scheme of things, when you end up playing in that booth for $100.000 over a ZvZ. You don't have your custom map with you, you can use the ingame clock, you can use the ticker but you can't use this application. Which way you ended up with your larva timings does not matter. But if the guy who used this application has 3 more larva for three more roaches in a stressfull constant battle game. You'll regret. (I'm not saying this will make you have better larva injects in the end, but what if?)

This is obviously not meant to be used as a replacement for knowing your larva injections. It's a learning tool that helps you get your inner clock set to GMT-Zerg. And I personally plan to use it as such (if I could just download it )!
KaiserW
Profile Joined November 2010
United States87 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 13:54:12
October 03 2011 13:52 GMT
#48
Always good to see a member of the community helping others.

Yo Xanbatou
if you're looking for another project, how about the following:
+ Show Spoiler +

Create a 'timer' that displays real time. This overlay can be placed next to the already existing game timer. It can look identical. It can be started by clicking, or preferably a color trigger on a (small) portion of the screen.

Personally, I want this to give me a sense of real time; Initially, in addition to faster time 'sense', and at some point I'll be on real time exclusively. (Sure, at first it may be confusing, but in the long run, it'd be worth it I think.)
This would enable us to train our sense of REAL TIME, which could be beneficial to real life and makes more sense!
I'm sure there are others that would use this.

Read this post [or thread] for an explanation on why this would be useful.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182018&currentpage=3#46


Edited to reduce thread derailment. o.O
"We are all but shadows in the void." - Stalker
Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
October 03 2011 13:56 GMT
#49
Although I don't really approve of such things I have a suggestion for you.

Why don't you make it so that the timer resets every time you hit "V"?
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ensign_lee
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1178 Posts
October 03 2011 13:59 GMT
#50
On October 03 2011 22:56 Grapefruit wrote:
Although I don't really approve of such things I have a suggestion for you.

Why don't you make it so that the timer resets every time you hit "V"?


overlords.
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
October 03 2011 13:59 GMT
#51
Personally, I think using this will make you more comfortable at home but it will train you to rely on this thing and you won't be able to use it anywhere else.
Luppa <3
Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
October 03 2011 14:01 GMT
#52
On October 03 2011 22:59 ensign_lee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2011 22:56 Grapefruit wrote:
Although I don't really approve of such things I have a suggestion for you.

Why don't you make it so that the timer resets every time you hit "V"?


overlords.


Good point, haven't though about that.
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
October 03 2011 14:03 GMT
#53
Why all the hate? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Thanks for sharing OP, I will probably not use it, but this might help people who want to work on their larva injects.
I had a good night of sleep.
Okiesmokie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada379 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 14:19:28
October 03 2011 14:11 GMT
#54
A better way to go about this would be to poll the value of the
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Razer\Starcraft2\AdditionalLarvaBirthed
Registry key. That is set to "1" for a brief period of time when a hatchery pops the larva off, which means the player would need to inject again. Reading the value of that and flashing the window when an inject is required would be much easier/more efficient than having to reset the timer each time.


Edit:
Here's the source to a simple program I made in C# to see how exactly the registry keys worked, if anyone is interested, just run it along side the game while you play and you will be able to see how the keys change:

+ Show Spoiler +

MainForm.Designer.cs

+ Show Spoiler +

namespace SC2Status {
partial class MainForm {
/// <summary>
/// Required designer variable.
/// </summary>
private System.ComponentModel.IContainer components = null;

/// <summary>
/// Clean up any resources being used.
/// </summary>
/// <param name="disposing">true if managed resources should be disposed; otherwise, false.</param>
protected override void Dispose(bool disposing) {
if(disposing && (components != null)) {
components.Dispose();
}
base.Dispose(disposing);
}

#region Windows Form Designer generated code

/// <summary>
/// Required method for Designer support - do not modify
/// the contents of this method with the code editor.
/// </summary>
private void InitializeComponent() {
this.components = new System.ComponentModel.Container();
this.dataGrid = new System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView();
this.exitButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button();
this.PropertyName = new System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewTextBoxColumn();
this.PropertyValue = new System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewTextBoxColumn();
this.checkTimer = new System.Windows.Forms.Timer(this.components);
((System.ComponentModel.ISupportInitialize)(this.dataGrid)).BeginInit();
this.SuspendLayout();
//
// dataGrid
//
this.dataGrid.Anchor = ((System.Windows.Forms.AnchorStyles)((((System.Windows.Forms.AnchorStyles.Top | System.Windows.Forms.AnchorStyles.Bottom)
| System.Windows.Forms.AnchorStyles.Left)
| System.Windows.Forms.AnchorStyles.Right)));
this.dataGrid.ColumnHeadersHeightSizeMode = System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewColumnHeadersHeightSizeMode.AutoSize;
this.dataGrid.Columns.AddRange(new System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewColumn[] {
this.PropertyName,
this.PropertyValue});
this.dataGrid.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(3, 3);
this.dataGrid.Name = "dataGrid";
this.dataGrid.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(329, 699);
this.dataGrid.TabIndex = 0;
this.dataGrid.MouseDown += new System.Windows.Forms.MouseEventHandler(this.dataGrid_MouseDown);
//
// exitButton
//
this.exitButton.Dock = System.Windows.Forms.DockStyle.Bottom;
this.exitButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(0, 708);
this.exitButton.Name = "exitButton";
this.exitButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(332, 24);
this.exitButton.TabIndex = 1;
this.exitButton.Text = "Exit";
this.exitButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true;
this.exitButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.exitButton_Click);
//
// PropertyName
//
this.PropertyName.HeaderText = "Property";
this.PropertyName.Name = "PropertyName";
this.PropertyName.Width = 150;
//
// PropertyValue
//
this.PropertyValue.HeaderText = "Value";
this.PropertyValue.Name = "PropertyValue";
//
// checkTimer
//
this.checkTimer.Interval = 500;
this.checkTimer.Tick += new System.EventHandler(this.checkTimer_Tick);
//
// MainForm
//
this.AutoScaleDimensions = new System.Drawing.SizeF(6F, 13F);
this.AutoScaleMode = System.Windows.Forms.AutoScaleMode.Font;
this.ClientSize = new System.Drawing.Size(332, 732);
this.Controls.Add(this.exitButton);
this.Controls.Add(this.dataGrid);
this.FormBorderStyle = System.Windows.Forms.FormBorderStyle.None;
this.Name = "MainForm";
this.Text = "SC2 Status";
this.MouseDown += new System.Windows.Forms.MouseEventHandler(this.MainForm_MouseDown);
((System.ComponentModel.ISupportInitialize)(this.dataGrid)).EndInit();
this.ResumeLayout(false);

}

#endregion

private System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView dataGrid;
private System.Windows.Forms.Button exitButton;
private System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewTextBoxColumn PropertyName;
private System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewTextBoxColumn PropertyValue;
private System.Windows.Forms.Timer checkTimer;

}
}



MainForm.cs

+ Show Spoiler +

using System;
using System.Collections;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.ComponentModel;
using System.Data;
using System.Drawing;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;
using System.Windows.Forms;

using System.Runtime.InteropServices;
using Microsoft.Win32;

namespace SC2Status {
public partial class MainForm : Form {

public const int WM_NCLBUTTONDOWN = 0xA1;
public const int HT_CAPTION = 0x2;

[DllImportAttribute("user32.dll")]
public static extern int SendMessage(IntPtr hWnd, int Msg, int wParam, int lParam);
[DllImportAttribute("user32.dll")]
public static extern bool ReleaseCapture();

private string[] propertyList = new string[] {
"AdditionalLarvaBirthed",
"AllyBaseUnderAttack",
"AllyUnitUnderAttack",
"APMValue",
"BuildingComplete",
"CalldownLaunch",
"ChronoBoostExpired",
"MorphComplete",
"MothershipCompleted",
"MothershipStarted",
"MULEExpired",
"OwnBaseUnderAttack",
"OwnUnitUnderAttack",
"ResearchComplete",
"ResourceDepleted",
"ResourceExhausted",
"SpecializationComplete",
"StartModule",
"TrainingComplete",
"UpgradeComplete",
"WarpInComplete"
};

public MainForm() {
InitializeComponent();

foreach(string property in propertyList) {
dataGrid.Rows.Add(new object[] { property, "0" });
}

checkTimer.Start();
}

private void MainForm_MouseDown(object sender, MouseEventArgs e) {
if(e.Button == MouseButtons.Left) {
ReleaseCapture();
SendMessage(Handle, WM_NCLBUTTONDOWN, HT_CAPTION, 0);
}
}

private void exitButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) {
Application.Exit();
}

private void dataGrid_MouseDown(object sender, MouseEventArgs e) {
MainForm_MouseDown(sender, new MouseEventArgs(MouseButtons.Left, 1, 0, 0, 0));
}

private void checkTimer_Tick(object sender, EventArgs e) {
foreach(string property in propertyList) {
RegistryKey key = Registry.CurrentUser;
RegistryKey subKey = key.OpenSubKey(@"SOFTWARE\Razer\Starcraft2");

dataGrid.Rows[getIndexOfRow(property)].Cells[1].Value = subKey.GetValue(property);
}
}

private int getIndexOfRow(string key) {
for(int i = 0; i < dataGrid.Rows.Count; i++) {
if(dataGrid.Rows[i].Cells[0].Value == key) {
return i;
}
}

throw new Exception("No column with that name found");
}
}
}



Program.cs

+ Show Spoiler +

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Windows.Forms;

namespace SC2Status {
static class Program {
/// <summary>
/// The main entry point for the application.
/// </summary>
[STAThread]
static void Main() {
Application.EnableVisualStyles();
Application.SetCompatibleTextRenderingDefault(false);
Application.Run(new MainForm());
}
}
}


Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
October 03 2011 14:19 GMT
#55
Has anyone hear ever done ANY research into habit forming behaviors? This is basically the protocol for teaching a Pavlovian response to ANYONE. Put things on a schedule, give a clear, consistent enforcement protocol, and once you have done it enough, the timing becomes second nature, with or without the stimulus.

This is more efficient for improving larvae inject timings than just trying to play. Why? Because like Day[9] says, you should be improving ONE thing at a time. This helps with that.

Thanks, bro!
One Love
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
October 03 2011 14:20 GMT
#56
On October 03 2011 23:03 Koshi wrote:
Why all the hate? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Thanks for sharing OP, I will probably not use it, but this might help people who want to work on their larva injects.

Me neither, but I don't think people are grasping the usefulness of this. It's not a crutch for playing higher level games - it's for practicing and working your way up to that point.

ex: 10 games with it on, 5 games with it off. 5 games with it on, 5 games with it off. 3 games with it on, then play with it off after.
#TeamBuLba
fuzzayy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States99 Posts
October 03 2011 14:32 GMT
#57
pretty cool man
alepov
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands1132 Posts
October 03 2011 14:35 GMT
#58
shit like this should be illegal
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Astevio
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden3 Posts
October 03 2011 15:10 GMT
#59
Could you upload this to mediafire please?
Sequence
Profile Joined June 2010
7 Posts
October 03 2011 15:11 GMT
#60
Wish i could download this .. Thanks for the tool! I plan to use it for a few weeks then I expect to no longer need it.

Haters - Wtf? its a teaching tool..
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
October 03 2011 15:16 GMT
#61
On October 03 2011 23:20 garlicface wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2011 23:03 Koshi wrote:
Why all the hate? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Thanks for sharing OP, I will probably not use it, but this might help people who want to work on their larva injects.

Me neither, but I don't think people are grasping the usefulness of this. It's not a crutch for playing higher level games - it's for practicing and working your way up to that point.

ex: 10 games with it on, 5 games with it off. 5 games with it on, 5 games with it off. 3 games with it on, then play with it off after.


Exactly. To not understand how extremely useful this can be for training you would have to be pretty daft. Learning to larvae inject properly is about having a solid timing down in your head. It's basically like terrans and protosses production rounds for workers. If you use this tool I would very much think that it will make your mechanics better FASTER than training the normal way. Obviously there is nothing wrong with training the normal way either.
Nizaris
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium2230 Posts
October 03 2011 15:20 GMT
#62
On October 03 2011 23:35 alepov wrote:
shit like this should be illegal

sure. along wearing a watch while playing SC2. it's basically the same thing.

stop hatin'
Lip the Pencilboy
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Italy420 Posts
October 03 2011 15:28 GMT
#63
thx for sharing, beginners need help, its so dangerous out there anyway
Moderator"Ieri ho bevuto troppo, stasera bevo solo Birra!" - DEBO IS MY PERSONAL SC2-HERO
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
October 03 2011 15:53 GMT
#64
Can anyone confirm if this works for fullscreen? Additionally if there is a link that works. Atleast for me that link is allready dead.
Capiachi
Profile Joined October 2010
78 Posts
October 03 2011 16:06 GMT
#65
Let me start out by thanking op for making this, its a great tool to help people. Like alot has described before, it can be compared to like earlier stated trainingwheels. I think dissregarding this tool, and bashing it is dumb.

Like everything in this world good things can be used badly. I would'nt be okay with people using this while laddering, basically everywhere there is a reward of some sort. Customs are more then okay.

I like the idea someone posted about a custom map trainer for this. However this doesn't implement a pretty huge factor, pressure. When you practise something like a scripted event you can only go so far, human interraction needs to be present I feel.

My opinion is pretty split on this, I do however feel like laddering with this provides benefit.

Again, I would like to thank OP for this tool. There's nothing wrong with this, as long as it isn't used to gain rewards.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
October 03 2011 18:31 GMT
#66
On October 04 2011 01:06 Capiachi wrote:
Let me start out by thanking op for making this, its a great tool to help people. Like alot has described before, it can be compared to like earlier stated trainingwheels. I think dissregarding this tool, and bashing it is dumb.

Like everything in this world good things can be used badly. I would'nt be okay with people using this while laddering, basically everywhere there is a reward of some sort. Customs are more then okay.

I like the idea someone posted about a custom map trainer for this. However this doesn't implement a pretty huge factor, pressure. When you practise something like a scripted event you can only go so far, human interraction needs to be present I feel.

My opinion is pretty split on this, I do however feel like laddering with this provides benefit.

Again, I would like to thank OP for this tool. There's nothing wrong with this, as long as it isn't used to gain rewards.


I don't see how it would be unfair to use this on the ladder as anyone can make a timer out of anything really. This just happens to be on screen. But you could get a device that would make a sound every time it was time to inject and you could reset it by pressing a button.

Ladder is not serious. Ladder is not very competetive. Most people on ladder either use it purely for mechanics training or to test out build orders. Those that play ladder only to win and get as good of a record as possible are often times people who are stuck in low masters or even lower.

Now if we're talking about a tournament then sure I don't think this should be allowed. But how are you going to enforce that rule? Only offline events would be able to control the environment to that extent. Again though, I don't think this gives you much of an advantage as you still need the prerequesite multitasking to be able to compete with players at a high level. It's not like a maphack that gives you information you wouldn't otherwise be able to obtain.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
October 03 2011 18:32 GMT
#67
It's actually not legal if it 'changes the in-game experience'. It might not get you caught, but its not legal either.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
Cuiu
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany410 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 18:40:15
October 03 2011 18:39 GMT
#68
its a nice tool thx.
Okiesmokie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada379 Posts
October 03 2011 22:13 GMT
#69
On October 04 2011 03:32 caradoc wrote:
It's actually not legal if it 'changes the in-game experience'. It might not get you caught, but its not legal either.

Link to the part of the ToS that says things are illegal if they "change the in-game experience," I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist. And if that was the case, things like Liquipedia, day9's daily, and any other learning tool out there would be illegal aswell, because they change your in-game experience by teaching you how to do things.

That is far too broad of a phrase to be used in any kind of legal documentation.
backtoback
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1276 Posts
October 03 2011 22:27 GMT
#70
Since it is legal and is not against the tos, pros can use this in online tournament play? Nothing to stop them?
Sequence
Profile Joined June 2010
7 Posts
October 03 2011 22:28 GMT
#71
On October 04 2011 03:32 caradoc wrote:
It's actually not legal if it 'changes the in-game experience'. It might not get you caught, but its not legal either.


I guess since i mute the in game music and play my music in the background thats illegal too since it changes the in game experience.
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
October 03 2011 22:57 GMT
#72
On October 04 2011 07:28 Sequence wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 03:32 caradoc wrote:
It's actually not legal if it 'changes the in-game experience'. It might not get you caught, but its not legal either.


I guess since i mute the in game music and play my music in the background thats illegal too since it changes the in game experience.


What.

Anyway, blizzard already has a function similar to this. On the top left side of your screen it should tell you whenever larva pops off I believe. That is essentially the same thing that you created.
High Risk Low Reward
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 04 2011 00:32 GMT
#73
Oh wow, I didn't realize this thread became active again. Sorry folks, I will re-upload the jar file to mediafire. I didn't know megaupload was so unreliable.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
October 04 2011 00:37 GMT
#74
This is a cool practice tool, but using it as a crutch is immoral. Now that I have stated the obvious, I hope the players here recognize its use and not bash this guy.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
AdelSC123
Profile Joined March 2010
France362 Posts
October 04 2011 00:42 GMT
#75
*cough* cheat *cough*
j0ker
Profile Joined August 2011
275 Posts
October 04 2011 00:45 GMT
#76
love all the elitists in here. a zerg player's macro is only as good as his larva injection allows it to be, and the only way to get perfect or near perfect injects is to absolutely hammer the timing into the brain. having an aid for that is a great idea for the more newbie of zergs.
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
October 04 2011 00:46 GMT
#77
I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to call tools like these "illegal" or "cheats". I could have a timer next to my desk that times 29 seconds and makes a beep every time i hit it. Is that "illegal" or a "cheat"? No. This is just a learning tool. The idea is that hopefully, after lots of time playing with this, you develop the sense to inject your larva even when you stop using the tool.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 04 2011 00:54 GMT
#78
What would make this truly unique would be if you could code a (very) small box with a timer that attaches itself to the pointer, so even while microing you could see how much time you have until you have to inject again.
Hey! How you doin'?
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 00:58:51
October 04 2011 00:58 GMT
#79
On October 04 2011 09:54 Zdrastochye wrote:
What would make this truly unique would be if you could code a (very) small box with a timer that attaches itself to the pointer, so even while microing you could see how much time you have until you have to inject again.


That's a pretty good idea, except I wouldn't want to do something like attach it to the pointer. I'd rather make it a part of the existing box. The only problem with that is that it sort of goes against how the rest of the application works. The rest of the application is designed so that it can sit anywhere on your screen and not really interfere with gameplay. I am curious where most people are placing it actually. I always place it in the big black area on the bottom that is unused. Anyways, If I had text there, I would have to decide on what color to make it =/.
theBlues
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
El Salvador638 Posts
October 04 2011 02:05 GMT
#80
Please if you use a sound please make it like a ping or a beep or a sound that some study has proven can get fixed and instilled into the memory xD

But whatever you do dont use a "zergy" sound, to me all zerg sounds are similar and sound the same, they are like gushy, chirpy noises, it sucks because often you'll have a hard time knowing what unit popped out when the other races have distinct dialogs and voices, so I wouldnt want a sound that blends into the same theme...
Change a vote, and change the world
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 04 2011 03:42 GMT
#81
Ok. I've updated the program to play a beeping sound when its time to inject too. It's just a standard system beeping sound.
theBlues
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
El Salvador638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 05:04:23
October 04 2011 05:02 GMT
#82
On October 04 2011 12:42 Xanbatou wrote:
Ok. I've updated the program to play a beeping sound when its time to inject too. It's just a standard system beeping sound.



Lots of thanks man, when i'm grand master, I will play faster (8) they'll call me bonjwa thanks to Xanbatou's timer (8)

btw, a nice idea, make some kind of indication that it is running since you can double click it and the inject goes off but not sure if I turned it off or something...
Change a vote, and change the world
Snackysnacks
Profile Joined December 2010
United States411 Posts
October 04 2011 05:11 GMT
#83
Reminds me a awful lot like this thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=243799
In where a third of the posters accused this of cheating.
Oh well, i dont have much of a thing to say over that issue, though, you should think about general hotkey reminders (you havent pressed this control group in awhile, GOGOGO) sorta thing.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
NewteN
Profile Joined November 2010
United States179 Posts
October 04 2011 05:32 GMT
#84
WTF hax?
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 04 2011 05:43 GMT
#85
On October 04 2011 14:02 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 12:42 Xanbatou wrote:
Ok. I've updated the program to play a beeping sound when its time to inject too. It's just a standard system beeping sound.



Lots of thanks man, when i'm grand master, I will play faster (8) they'll call me bonjwa thanks to Xanbatou's timer (8)

btw, a nice idea, make some kind of indication that it is running since you can double click it and the inject goes off but not sure if I turned it off or something...


I don't think that's necessary. Once you have started it, it's impossible to stop the timer, unless you exit the program itself. I made it blink at the beginning as a visual indication that it was started so this sort of confusion does not occur.
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
October 04 2011 05:45 GMT
#86
Do not use if you want to become a better player
ForgottenOne
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania236 Posts
October 04 2011 05:55 GMT
#87
Obviously, using this on ladder or other kinds of rated games, is cheating.
Born free, as free as the wind blows...
theBlues
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
El Salvador638 Posts
October 04 2011 06:06 GMT
#88
On October 04 2011 14:55 ForgottenOne wrote:
Obviously, using this on ladder or other kinds of rated games, is cheating.


Yeah, having a coach while you play games is cheating, oh wait..
Change a vote, and change the world
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 04 2011 06:17 GMT
#89
Someone PMed me asking for the source, so I've uploaded it to mediafire and updated the OP with a link to it.
Capiachi
Profile Joined October 2010
78 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 06:46:24
October 04 2011 06:43 GMT
#90
On October 04 2011 03:31 StarBrift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 01:06 Capiachi wrote:
Let me start out by thanking op for making this, its a great tool to help people. Like alot has described before, it can be compared to like earlier stated trainingwheels. I think dissregarding this tool, and bashing it is dumb.

Like everything in this world good things can be used badly. I would'nt be okay with people using this while laddering, basically everywhere there is a reward of some sort. Customs are more then okay.

I like the idea someone posted about a custom map trainer for this. However this doesn't implement a pretty huge factor, pressure. When you practise something like a scripted event you can only go so far, human interraction needs to be present I feel.

My opinion is pretty split on this, I do however feel like laddering with this provides benefit.

Again, I would like to thank OP for this tool. There's nothing wrong with this, as long as it isn't used to gain rewards.


I don't see how it would be unfair to use this on the ladder as anyone can make a timer out of anything really. This just happens to be on screen. But you could get a device that would make a sound every time it was time to inject and you could reset it by pressing a button.

Ladder is not serious. Ladder is not very competetive. Most people on ladder either use it purely for mechanics training or to test out build orders. Those that play ladder only to win and get as good of a record as possible are often times people who are stuck in low masters or even lower.

Now if we're talking about a tournament then sure I don't think this should be allowed. But how are you going to enforce that rule? Only offline events would be able to control the environment to that extent. Again though, I don't think this gives you much of an advantage as you still need the prerequesite multitasking to be able to compete with players at a high level. It's not like a maphack that gives you information you wouldn't otherwise be able to obtain.



I get your argument, however I dont like this being used in a reward situation. High end ladder matters most obviously(To me anyway. No im not in the top, not even close.).

Anyone can cheat on a test, doesn't mean its appropriate. How you train for that test is totally fine for me. And just because ladder doesn't mean anything to you, it might for other people. It does for me. Ladder can be sort of a gateway to opportunities like tournaments, teams, sponsors etc.

Im not talking about how to enforce it, because it simply cant be done. Im just throwing out what I think about it.

I agree that it is a hard line to draw, this is my opinion. If someone can make a better argument Im more then willing to change it if it makes sense.

EDIT: This reminds me of another function that would benefit this and make it ok. Having customs following MMR in a way, not replacing the current custom system but adding another one. This would allow people to use it in a non-reward situation where you get the appropriate pressure from your opponent while doing so.
theBlues
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
El Salvador638 Posts
October 04 2011 06:48 GMT
#91
On October 04 2011 15:43 Capiachi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 03:31 StarBrift wrote:
On October 04 2011 01:06 Capiachi wrote:
Let me start out by thanking op for making this, its a great tool to help people. Like alot has described before, it can be compared to like earlier stated trainingwheels. I think dissregarding this tool, and bashing it is dumb.

Like everything in this world good things can be used badly. I would'nt be okay with people using this while laddering, basically everywhere there is a reward of some sort. Customs are more then okay.

I like the idea someone posted about a custom map trainer for this. However this doesn't implement a pretty huge factor, pressure. When you practise something like a scripted event you can only go so far, human interraction needs to be present I feel.

My opinion is pretty split on this, I do however feel like laddering with this provides benefit.

Again, I would like to thank OP for this tool. There's nothing wrong with this, as long as it isn't used to gain rewards.


I don't see how it would be unfair to use this on the ladder as anyone can make a timer out of anything really. This just happens to be on screen. But you could get a device that would make a sound every time it was time to inject and you could reset it by pressing a button.

Ladder is not serious. Ladder is not very competetive. Most people on ladder either use it purely for mechanics training or to test out build orders. Those that play ladder only to win and get as good of a record as possible are often times people who are stuck in low masters or even lower.

Now if we're talking about a tournament then sure I don't think this should be allowed. But how are you going to enforce that rule? Only offline events would be able to control the environment to that extent. Again though, I don't think this gives you much of an advantage as you still need the prerequesite multitasking to be able to compete with players at a high level. It's not like a maphack that gives you information you wouldn't otherwise be able to obtain.



I get your argument, however I dont like this being used in a reward situation. High end ladder matters most obviously(To me anyway. No im not in the top, not even close.).

Anyone can cheat on a test, doesn't mean its appropriate. How you train for that test is totally fine for me. And just because ladder doesn't mean anything to you, it might for other people. It does for me. Ladder can be sort of a gateway to opportunities like tournaments, teams, sponsors etc.

Im not talking about how to enforce it, because it simply cant be done. Im just throwing out what I think about it.

I agree that it is a hard line to draw, this is my opinion. If someone can make a better argument Im more then willing to change it if it makes sense.

EDIT: This reminds me of another function that would benefit this and make it ok. Having customs following MMR in a way, not replacing the current custom system but adding another one. This would allow people to use it in a non-reward situation where you get the appropriate pressure from your opponent while doing so.



Someone who needs this for hitting their injects is no where close to the pro level were awards are given and people are invited to tournaments...

I am a mid masters zerg, but my injects are not still even close to good...
Change a vote, and change the world
Capiachi
Profile Joined October 2010
78 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 07:08:52
October 04 2011 07:08 GMT
#92
People at your level can still get rewards.

Select had alot of problem with macro a while ago, pretty sure it was a couple of months ago. He was good at 1-2 base play, but missed alot of scvs. He was pro. Im not that good at zerg players so I cant say anyone pro that has problems injecting but im sure there are a select few.

Some pro's struggle with creep, some with macro and some with micro. But they are still pro.

editet in "can" (bold part)
Smackfools
Profile Joined October 2010
United States93 Posts
October 04 2011 20:26 GMT
#93
I find this as being just a more efficient "sticky note" people stick to their monitors..


I dont see anything wrong with using this to help you get into the habit of injecting
CaptainSlow
Profile Joined October 2010
Malaysia164 Posts
October 04 2011 20:28 GMT
#94
this is a good way for remembering to inject larvae. i personally will try telling myself to do it, but its nice to see there are options put there for every1.
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
October 04 2011 20:31 GMT
#95
is this even allowed?
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
October 04 2011 20:32 GMT
#96
I think that this is a great piece of work that can really improve a beginning player's macro skill, and although it could be said that any program to help performance is cheating, this seems t be not much of an offender.

Great tool for injects, and nice work!
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 20:35:32
October 04 2011 20:35 GMT
#97

2.1 create or use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;

sVnteen:
This is from the Battle.net TOS, so this could be regarded as being a third-party program. However, I don't think that Blizzard will care about this, there being multitudes of ways to set a timer for injects.
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
October 04 2011 20:40 GMT
#98
On October 02 2011 11:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Ugh, so tired of seeing people try to program their way into being a better player. Do it the same way all of us have for years and years. There is nothing wrong with trying to work on your mechanics.

There is also nothing wrong with working on your mechanics more efficiently. I doubt anyone is planning to use a spawn larva timer forever, this is just one way to ingrain the timing into your head.
:)
pavement ist rad
Profile Joined January 2007
United States226 Posts
October 04 2011 20:42 GMT
#99
SC2 already tells you when additional larvae have been spawned, but it is a notification and doesn't make any sounds. I think that if you made a program to make a ping along with the notification, it wouldn't be considered a hack, since it already tells you, you are simply being informed with sound instead of text
Teliko
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland1044 Posts
October 04 2011 20:51 GMT
#100
This is against the ToS for those wondering, as it's third-party software, and it is technically cheating, but it's impossible for Blizz to catch people using something like this as it doesn't actually inject anything into sc2. I also disagree that this would be useful for training purposes, because you'd become reliant on it. Instead of naturally becoming aware of when it's roughly the right time to inject, you're going to be depending on the notice the application makes. The best way to train is to just practice standard games, watch your replays and see how often you're missing your injects and work on it from there.

I'm pretty confident that a majority of people downloading this are using it for the fact they won't need to worry about when to inject because it'll be more or less automated, and not for training purposes.
Add a drop of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange and pretend you're laughing at it.
Astevio
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden3 Posts
October 04 2011 20:57 GMT
#101
On October 05 2011 05:51 Teliko wrote:
This is against the ToS for those wondering, as it's third-party software, and it is technically cheating, but it's impossible for Blizz to catch people using something like this as it doesn't actually inject anything into sc2. I also disagree that this would be useful for training purposes, because you'd become reliant on it. Instead of naturally becoming aware of when it's roughly the right time to inject, you're going to be depending on the notice the application makes. The best way to train is to just practice standard games, watch your replays and see how often you're missing your injects and work on it from there.

I'm pretty confident that a majority of people downloading this are using it for the fact they won't need to worry about when to inject because it'll be more or less automated, and not for training purposes.

Please look up the differences between 3rd party, and independant programs.
Also, thanks a lot OP!
Teliko
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland1044 Posts
October 04 2011 21:09 GMT
#102
On October 05 2011 05:57 Astevio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 05:51 Teliko wrote:
This is against the ToS for those wondering, as it's third-party software, and it is technically cheating, but it's impossible for Blizz to catch people using something like this as it doesn't actually inject anything into sc2. I also disagree that this would be useful for training purposes, because you'd become reliant on it. Instead of naturally becoming aware of when it's roughly the right time to inject, you're going to be depending on the notice the application makes. The best way to train is to just practice standard games, watch your replays and see how often you're missing your injects and work on it from there.

I'm pretty confident that a majority of people downloading this are using it for the fact they won't need to worry about when to inject because it'll be more or less automated, and not for training purposes.

Please look up the differences between 3rd party, and independant programs.
Also, thanks a lot OP!

The software is used on top of the SC interface and the user refers to it while they're playing to effortlessly improve their play. If you were to ask a blue, do you really think they're going to say that it's perfectly fine to use because it doesn't directly interact with SC?
Add a drop of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange and pretend you're laughing at it.
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 21:20:49
October 04 2011 21:20 GMT
#103
Anyone actually have a quote from the TOS that says this is illegal?

Can't wait to try this out.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Pros
Profile Joined February 2011
219 Posts
October 04 2011 21:43 GMT
#104
How do you get this to work? I downloaded it and it's just a bunch of .class files :S
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 04 2011 22:02 GMT
#105
On October 05 2011 06:43 Pros wrote:
How do you get this to work? I downloaded it and it's just a bunch of .class files :S


You should be able to just double-click it. It's a runnable jar, so there's not much too it...
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
October 04 2011 22:08 GMT
#106
Cool job OP... It seems like a really helpful device. I'm sure the brighter people in the room will realize that once you've used it for about a week you will no longer need it, since you will have been trained to know the timing (like a song beat), hence the word "trainer," etc
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Pros
Profile Joined February 2011
219 Posts
October 04 2011 22:08 GMT
#107
All I have are .class's and when I click on them it just brings up sc2 and no window is opened
Teliko
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland1044 Posts
October 04 2011 22:20 GMT
#108
On October 05 2011 07:08 Pros wrote:
All I have are .class's and when I click on them it just brings up sc2 and no window is opened

This shouldn't interact with SC in any way. It shouldn't even know what SC is :S Try downloading it again. The file should be .jar, so I've no idea what you're using.
Add a drop of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange and pretend you're laughing at it.
Pros
Profile Joined February 2011
219 Posts
October 04 2011 22:34 GMT
#109
On October 05 2011 07:20 Teliko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 07:08 Pros wrote:
All I have are .class's and when I click on them it just brings up sc2 and no window is opened

This shouldn't interact with SC in any way. It shouldn't even know what SC is :S Try downloading it again. The file should be .jar, so I've no idea what you're using.


I downloaded the one on top :s

Here's a picture of what's in the folder for me (I redownloaded it)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/87953729150732987410293.png/

Should I manually tell it to open in java?
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 04 2011 23:03 GMT
#110
is inject really so difficult ? i have problems with terran macro, but never had a problem with injects. Maybe i am just build to play zerg, but i love terran T-T.
Anyway its pretty much a grey zone, doesn't read around in sc2 but still can be considered a 3rd party tool. So Blizzard can ban you for it if they wanted to. (they can but doesn't mean they can spot it or will even care for it). The newest user agreements mostly say we can ban you if you even play the game ... so (happens if no one reads them).
Generally sc2 is still pretty okay, i would guess 50% of the ladder don't use any macro tools or the likes. So unlike other games you can even think that your opponent played on a fair basis. But those numbers will increase over the time, depended on how strict blizzard will be at the end it will probably be 80% using supportive tools giving them advantages.
Teliko
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland1044 Posts
October 04 2011 23:14 GMT
#111
On October 05 2011 07:34 Pros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 07:20 Teliko wrote:
On October 05 2011 07:08 Pros wrote:
All I have are .class's and when I click on them it just brings up sc2 and no window is opened

This shouldn't interact with SC in any way. It shouldn't even know what SC is :S Try downloading it again. The file should be .jar, so I've no idea what you're using.


I downloaded the one on top :s

Here's a picture of what's in the folder for me (I redownloaded it)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/87953729150732987410293.png/

Should I manually tell it to open in java?

There is no folder ._. the link leads directly to the executable .jar file. I've no idea what's going on there, bro, sorry.
Add a drop of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange and pretend you're laughing at it.
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 05 2011 01:34 GMT
#112
On October 05 2011 07:34 Pros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 07:20 Teliko wrote:
On October 05 2011 07:08 Pros wrote:
All I have are .class's and when I click on them it just brings up sc2 and no window is opened

This shouldn't interact with SC in any way. It shouldn't even know what SC is :S Try downloading it again. The file should be .jar, so I've no idea what you're using.


I downloaded the one on top :s

Here's a picture of what's in the folder for me (I redownloaded it)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/87953729150732987410293.png/

Should I manually tell it to open in java?


Yeah, it seems as if you have some other program set to open .jar files. I suggest right-clicking it and manually selecting java to open it.
Okiesmokie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada379 Posts
October 05 2011 07:29 GMT
#113
On October 04 2011 15:17 Xanbatou wrote:
Someone PMed me asking for the source, so I've uploaded it to mediafire and updated the OP with a link to it.

Did you see my post about the registry keys that SC Modifies, that would make this a whole lot more efficient/reliable?
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
October 05 2011 07:52 GMT
#114
On October 05 2011 05:51 Teliko wrote:
This is against the ToS for those wondering, as it's third-party software, and it is technically cheating, but it's impossible for Blizz to catch people using something like this as it doesn't actually inject anything into sc2. I also disagree that this would be useful for training purposes, because you'd become reliant on it. Instead of naturally becoming aware of when it's roughly the right time to inject, you're going to be depending on the notice the application makes. The best way to train is to just practice standard games, watch your replays and see how often you're missing your injects and work on it from there.

I'm pretty confident that a majority of people downloading this are using it for the fact they won't need to worry about when to inject because it'll be more or less automated, and not for training purposes.


As many have stated before in this thread, it's been scientifically proven that this kind of training is the most effective to learning patterns. You can argue that it's unfair or not but you can't argue that it doesn't work. People won't get reliant on it unless they have absolutely no multitasking. The whole point of it is that you train with it on for the majority of your games and then start reducing the ammount of games with the program until you don't need to use it at all.
TheManBomb
Profile Joined February 2011
United States13 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-06 08:50:11
October 05 2011 09:54 GMT
#115
Ive downloaded and it seems to work great aside from the sound function. Do i perhaps need to enable an option somewhere in order to hear the sound

EDIT
As a sidenote about the sound, it will play whatever your system's default sound is, so if you disabled that, it won't play anything.

Ah ty
Music is like candy, you throw away the wrappers
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 15:26:03
October 05 2011 15:24 GMT
#116
On October 05 2011 16:29 Okiesmokie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 15:17 Xanbatou wrote:
Someone PMed me asking for the source, so I've uploaded it to mediafire and updated the OP with a link to it.

Did you see my post about the registry keys that SC Modifies, that would make this a whole lot more efficient/reliable?


I did see that post. However, I don't think it fits with the goal of my program. My program isn't meant to make you hit every inject. It's meant to teach you the timings of inject larva. If I used your method, then the alert would not occur every 29 seconds, so it wouldn't hammer in to inject every 29 seconds.
Cajun2k1
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands399 Posts
October 05 2011 15:34 GMT
#117
For the people who are discussing if this is acceptable, you also could look at it this way. There are youtube video's which you can play in the background that tell you exact timings and what to do when, etc. This program that OP made is very similar. You could put a soundfile on a loop of 29 seconds, so you'ld know when to inject. Blizzard can't find out that you're using the program because it doesn't interact with the SC2 client. Blizzard can't ban people from using software besides SC2 when they're playing SC2, so the whole discussion is irrelevant.
How can you kill, that which has no life?
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 15:44:04
October 05 2011 15:41 GMT
#118
On October 05 2011 08:03 FeyFey wrote:
is inject really so difficult ? i have problems with terran macro, but never had a problem with injects. Maybe i am just build to play zerg, but i love terran T-T.
Anyway its pretty much a grey zone, doesn't read around in sc2 but still can be considered a 3rd party tool. So Blizzard can ban you for it if they wanted to. (they can but doesn't mean they can spot it or will even care for it). The newest user agreements mostly say we can ban you if you even play the game ... so (happens if no one reads them).
Generally sc2 is still pretty okay, i would guess 50% of the ladder don't use any macro tools or the likes. So unlike other games you can even think that your opponent played on a fair basis. But those numbers will increase over the time, depended on how strict blizzard will be at the end it will probably be 80% using supportive tools giving them advantages.

You know, I don't play zerg and a lot of zergs here told me inject is easy once you're at masters level or something. So I thought it was. Then I happened to pay attention to injects in pro replays, and I learned that it is NOT AT ALL easy. Sure it's easy if the game goes in a NR10 fashion. But once anything occurs, their injects gets messed up and become quite atrocious. Just download any replay of well-known zerg players. You will see. (e.g. Idra v Puma @IEM)

Among those who I've seen from replays, DRG injects the best. He is almost magical in that he rarely misses injects for the first 15 mins or so. That's with all the defense and muta harrass, etc. Even his injects become irregular past 15 mins, but still are the best I've seen.
Okiesmokie
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada379 Posts
October 05 2011 16:37 GMT
#119
On October 06 2011 00:24 Xanbatou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 16:29 Okiesmokie wrote:
On October 04 2011 15:17 Xanbatou wrote:
Someone PMed me asking for the source, so I've uploaded it to mediafire and updated the OP with a link to it.

Did you see my post about the registry keys that SC Modifies, that would make this a whole lot more efficient/reliable?


I did see that post. However, I don't think it fits with the goal of my program. My program isn't meant to make you hit every inject. It's meant to teach you the timings of inject larva. If I used your method, then the alert would not occur every 29 seconds, so it wouldn't hammer in to inject every 29 seconds.

Yes it would.. it would just occur without the person having to click the little box to reset the timer every time.
Brainling
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States660 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 17:02:01
October 05 2011 17:01 GMT
#120
You know, it's funny, when there was a thread posted about using a metronome to practice stutter step micro, no one had any issues with it. There were no screams of cheats, or hacks, or "this is illegal". Someone explain to me how this is any different? Because it's software and not a physical object?

For all of you people saying "This is pointless, you will become reliant on it!!", you have zero idea how method training works. How do you think people learn to play music? Repetition and a metronome. Playing the same cords and keys over and over until they are muscle memory, requiring almost no thought.

OP: Ignore the haters. This community is full of elitist jerks who aren't even that good, they just like to act like it because they post on TL. If this helps you get the rhythm of injects down, go for it.
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Theodore Roosevelt
MrKennyKRH
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark46 Posts
October 05 2011 19:46 GMT
#121
I lose games because I forget to inject and don't have enough larva in the mid to late game cause I get too distracted with other things. This program might hammer the inject timing into my head so it becomes something I do automatically instead of having to remind myself to do it. Thank you OP! =)
TLO: "but then ze templah comes in and its not boo-yah, but more like sad panda"
nDragan
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada31 Posts
October 05 2011 20:18 GMT
#122
if Blizzard finds out about this it is definitely bannable. However i doubt anything will happen from you using it. But yeah, like other people have stated, using this will make you a bad player without it. You shouldn't become too reliant on it.
Brainling
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States660 Posts
October 05 2011 22:07 GMT
#123
On October 06 2011 05:18 nDragan wrote:
if Blizzard finds out about this it is definitely bannable. However i doubt anything will happen from you using it. But yeah, like other people have stated, using this will make you a bad player without it. You shouldn't become too reliant on it.


Those other people, and you, are completely wrong, and know nothing about classic repetition and method training.

The idea is simple: You start with the tool (metronome, this, whatever), and when you start to feel comfortable with the rhythm, you start to remove it from the equation. Play three games with, two without. Two games with, three without. One game with, four without. Finally, no games with. This is a time honored, tested, training method, and works very well for a certain segment of the population and certain tasks (anything that is rhythmic, which shockingly enough, playing StarCraft is).

To blanket state that it is going to make you a bad player is silly and completely wrong. It COULD make you a bad player, if you just always used it. But if you use it for what it's meant to be a (a training tool), then it can be incredibly helpful to keep your mental affairs in order during a game. The idea is to get the habit of injecting down to pure muscle memory.

Training wheels CAN make you bad at riding a bike too, but if you raise them slowly over time and then eventually remove them, they are a great tool to learn bike riding.
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Theodore Roosevelt
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 23:34:27
October 05 2011 23:32 GMT
#124
On October 06 2011 01:37 Okiesmokie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 00:24 Xanbatou wrote:
On October 05 2011 16:29 Okiesmokie wrote:
On October 04 2011 15:17 Xanbatou wrote:
Someone PMed me asking for the source, so I've uploaded it to mediafire and updated the OP with a link to it.

Did you see my post about the registry keys that SC Modifies, that would make this a whole lot more efficient/reliable?


I did see that post. However, I don't think it fits with the goal of my program. My program isn't meant to make you hit every inject. It's meant to teach you the timings of inject larva. If I used your method, then the alert would not occur every 29 seconds, so it wouldn't hammer in to inject every 29 seconds.

Yes it would.. it would just occur without the person having to click the little box to reset the timer every time.


It wouldn't if you have staggered injects. With your suggested method, you could theoretically hit staggered injects all game long. I would prefer if my application made people more conscious of when they need to inject with respect to the 29 seconds. The scenario I described may not seem like a big deal, but I felt it was a big enough reason not to do it.
theBlues
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
El Salvador638 Posts
October 05 2011 23:39 GMT
#125
I tried it and was not able to make it work game wise for me, after a while the sound just blends into the rest of sounds.

It would be nice to have someway of turning it off without closing it...

Change a vote, and change the world
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
October 05 2011 23:43 GMT
#126
On October 06 2011 08:39 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
I tried it and was not able to make it work game wise for me, after a while the sound just blends into the rest of sounds.

It would be nice to have someway of turning it off without closing it...



That's something I hadn't considered until now. I just realized that in between games, you may not want it going off and it's probably annoying to close it all the time. So I will update it. I think it's redundant to have two ways of closing such a small application, so instead of right-click closing it, I will make right-click stop the timer.
zeOllie
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Australia486 Posts
October 06 2011 07:17 GMT
#127
People are so tight about how this is 'cheating'. It's not 'cheating'. When you use a metronome, it helps you keep in time. If you propose to 'do it the hard way' without any aid it will be 10x as hard than using an aid. Jesus people, it's a learning aid.

This seems really cool. I'm going to use it when I play now =D
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-06 07:36:13
October 06 2011 07:31 GMT
#128
On October 06 2011 04:46 MrKennyKRH wrote:
I lose games because I forget to inject and don't have enough larva in the mid to late game cause I get too distracted with other things. This program might hammer the inject timing into my head so it becomes something I do automatically instead of having to remind myself to do it. Thank you OP! =)

Thats a fallacy and you already told yourself why:
You get too distracted. You have to remind yourself. The only thing that this program changes is that it's not you reminding yourself but rather this program.
So, if you actually want to become good, don't use this. You are just relocating the real issue.

Nice effort op and I bet it was a nice programming practice, but this has no real use imho.

When you use a metronome, it helps you keep in time. If you propose to 'do it the hard way' without any aid it will be 10x as hard than using an aid. Jesus people, it's a learning aid.

This is not how it works. An inject is fully controlled by yourself and YOU have to take action when you want something to happen, while a metronome shows you something that is fixed and YOU have to adjust to it, because otherwise it will just go on and you won't hit a tone.

I recommend to everyone that really wants to become better at injecting just to practice your mechanics, this is not really cheating ingame, but cheating on yourself.
Capiachi
Profile Joined October 2010
78 Posts
October 06 2011 08:24 GMT
#129
On October 06 2011 07:07 Brainling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 05:18 nDragan wrote:
if Blizzard finds out about this it is definitely bannable. However i doubt anything will happen from you using it. But yeah, like other people have stated, using this will make you a bad player without it. You shouldn't become too reliant on it.


Those other people, and you, are completely wrong, and know nothing about classic repetition and method training.

The idea is simple: You start with the tool (metronome, this, whatever), and when you start to feel comfortable with the rhythm, you start to remove it from the equation. Play three games with, two without. Two games with, three without. One game with, four without. Finally, no games with. This is a time honored, tested, training method, and works very well for a certain segment of the population and certain tasks (anything that is rhythmic, which shockingly enough, playing StarCraft is).

To blanket state that it is going to make you a bad player is silly and completely wrong. It COULD make you a bad player, if you just always used it. But if you use it for what it's meant to be a (a training tool), then it can be incredibly helpful to keep your mental affairs in order during a game. The idea is to get the habit of injecting down to pure muscle memory.

Training wheels CAN make you bad at riding a bike too, but if you raise them slowly over time and then eventually remove them, they are a great tool to learn bike riding.

This!

There is no denying that this will work for some people. And like you said, if people dont stop using it after a while, then thats a problem. I think alot of the people who will use this will do it "always" however, but thats another story.

I just really dislike people's argument of "learn it the hard way like everyone else". Go learn advanced math without a calculator then... Teach your kid to ride a bike without training wheels.. Teach your dog tricks without treats.. "Like everyone else does". Its dumb.
Everyone here uses a shortcut method of learning one way or the other, they are just to stubborn about this to realise it.

Another dumb thing is using this always.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-06 08:36:19
October 06 2011 08:31 GMT
#130
On October 06 2011 17:24 Capiachi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 07:07 Brainling wrote:
On October 06 2011 05:18 nDragan wrote:
if Blizzard finds out about this it is definitely bannable. However i doubt anything will happen from you using it. But yeah, like other people have stated, using this will make you a bad player without it. You shouldn't become too reliant on it.


Those other people, and you, are completely wrong, and know nothing about classic repetition and method training.

The idea is simple: You start with the tool (metronome, this, whatever), and when you start to feel comfortable with the rhythm, you start to remove it from the equation. Play three games with, two without. Two games with, three without. One game with, four without. Finally, no games with. This is a time honored, tested, training method, and works very well for a certain segment of the population and certain tasks (anything that is rhythmic, which shockingly enough, playing StarCraft is).

To blanket state that it is going to make you a bad player is silly and completely wrong. It COULD make you a bad player, if you just always used it. But if you use it for what it's meant to be a (a training tool), then it can be incredibly helpful to keep your mental affairs in order during a game. The idea is to get the habit of injecting down to pure muscle memory.

Training wheels CAN make you bad at riding a bike too, but if you raise them slowly over time and then eventually remove them, they are a great tool to learn bike riding.

This!

There is no denying that this will work for some people. And like you said, if people dont stop using it after a while, then thats a problem. I think alot of the people who will use this will do it "always" however, but thats another story.

I just really dislike people's argument of "learn it the hard way like everyone else". Go learn advanced math without a calculator then... Teach your kid to ride a bike without training wheels.. Teach your dog tricks without treats.. "Like everyone else does". Its dumb.
Everyone here uses a shortcut method of learning one way or the other, they are just to stubborn about this to realise it.

Another dumb thing is using this always.

1)
If people stop using this after they used it for a while, they again have to REMIND themselves to inject, which was the problem at the first place.
They have to actively THINK about injecting again, which just doesn't work in the long run.
They still have to constantly look at the timer, which is not how it's done.

So basically, you have to use this progarm all the time if you actually want it to help you.

2)
You can learn advanced math without a calculator. I hope you don't really think that it's not possible.

3)
This is not about "like everyone else" as pretty much 99% of the other people aren't practicing using the right method, either. This is pretty much like everything else, because this program is not solving the issue, as I already said, but just relocating it.

You'd have to look at the people who do it right(like NesTea and other godo Zergs) to actually know how to practice it.

I mean don't get me wrong, you can use this if you want, it will help, but just as long as you keep using it.
elKaDor
Profile Joined April 2009
Sweden376 Posts
October 06 2011 08:33 GMT
#131
noobs learn it by urself instead

User was temp banned for this post.
Capiachi
Profile Joined October 2010
78 Posts
October 06 2011 08:40 GMT
#132
On October 06 2011 17:31 KeksX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 17:24 Capiachi wrote:
On October 06 2011 07:07 Brainling wrote:
On October 06 2011 05:18 nDragan wrote:
if Blizzard finds out about this it is definitely bannable. However i doubt anything will happen from you using it. But yeah, like other people have stated, using this will make you a bad player without it. You shouldn't become too reliant on it.


Those other people, and you, are completely wrong, and know nothing about classic repetition and method training.

The idea is simple: You start with the tool (metronome, this, whatever), and when you start to feel comfortable with the rhythm, you start to remove it from the equation. Play three games with, two without. Two games with, three without. One game with, four without. Finally, no games with. This is a time honored, tested, training method, and works very well for a certain segment of the population and certain tasks (anything that is rhythmic, which shockingly enough, playing StarCraft is).

To blanket state that it is going to make you a bad player is silly and completely wrong. It COULD make you a bad player, if you just always used it. But if you use it for what it's meant to be a (a training tool), then it can be incredibly helpful to keep your mental affairs in order during a game. The idea is to get the habit of injecting down to pure muscle memory.

Training wheels CAN make you bad at riding a bike too, but if you raise them slowly over time and then eventually remove them, they are a great tool to learn bike riding.

This!

There is no denying that this will work for some people. And like you said, if people dont stop using it after a while, then thats a problem. I think alot of the people who will use this will do it "always" however, but thats another story.

I just really dislike people's argument of "learn it the hard way like everyone else". Go learn advanced math without a calculator then... Teach your kid to ride a bike without training wheels.. Teach your dog tricks without treats.. "Like everyone else does". Its dumb.
Everyone here uses a shortcut method of learning one way or the other, they are just to stubborn about this to realise it.

Another dumb thing is using this always.

1)
If people stop using this after they used it for a while, they again have to REMIND themselves to inject, which was the problem at the first place.
They have to actively THINK about injecting again, which just doesn't work in the long run.
They still have to constantly look at the timer, which is not how it's done.

So basically, you have to use this progarm all the time if you actually want it to help you.

2)
You can learn advanced math without a calculator. I hope you don't really think that it's not possible.

3)
This is not about "like everyone else" as pretty much 99% of the other people aren't practicing using the right method, either. This is pretty much like everything else, because this program is not solving the issue, as I already said, but just relocating it.

1a: The idea of this is to teach your brain to know that everyonce in a while to check for injects, I agree that they have to watch the clock or that ingame thing that shows you inject. But this will help you think of injects more often then you did earlier, which is the point of this.

2a: I hope YOU realise that all of those things are possible without the extra help, ie calculator, treats and training wheels.

3a: I agree, alot of people are not using the correct methods of learning. But there isn't just one way of learning something. People work differently, a way you use to learn something doesn't mean it will work for everyone else.
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