Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)
On September 20 2011 06:16 XRaDiiX wrote: You guys just don't get it already been said that CoL's Contract with Stephano Means Diddy Squat in France.
- He has a 1 month time frame to breach/void the contract before its permanent - The Contract was apparently not Valid/Legal -Stephano actually chooses to stay on Millenium (Personal Choice) -Complexity is exacerbating worsening the situation by trying to sue Millenium/Stephano.
CoL has too much Pride and still trying to Pursue action (Which is a bad idea and will cause a Shit Storm)
CoL(Complexity) Trying to pursue a lawsuit in France over this i don't see it happening and/or working especially with what we have learned so far.
I still think Complexity deceived dis-oriented Stephano into signing something he didn't agree to. Not to mention the Contract wasn't a real Contract purportedly.
col has the choice of what law to use for their contract, they chose US law. In fact there is a international contract law protecting complexities rights and decision. From everything we know so far, the only conclusion, though im not saying we should make one yet, is that Col is in the right here.
nonsense. citizens of nations have rights granted by their societies. france's government guarantees its workers protections, such as the regulation of contracts of employment; so do the governments of every other nation. you can't employ an american in america without paying them minimum wage, even if you're a french company. you can't employ a french person who's in france - whether or not you are french - without providing a valid contract, probation clauses, and so on.
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is.
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote: I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.
lol @ another 1 post frenchy coming out of the woodwork to espouse how great staying with a team for less pay, worse practice, and no opportunity to attend lans or stay in a korean pro gaming house is beneficial for the player.
worse practice ? yeah sure look at all the fantastic results NA players have in tourneys...
oh my god, the french invasion!
he was supposed to go to korea with coL.
You don't know that... Unless I'm mistaking coL never send anyone in Korea, and didn't said in their announcement that they were sending Stephano to Korea. Easy to say that afterward...
When Huk left Millenium to TL and when ToD left to Fnatic there was no problem.
Not saying that Stephano was right but when you are negociating with a player during several weeks, you don't offer him a last counter offer et 4am and then ask him to sign immediately a contract.
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote: I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.
Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think.
You think the players are the best in CoL?
Being in an American team like Col means you're going to play at MLG, NASL, maybe GSL etc.. Being in a French team means you're going to play on stupid unknown french LANs.
You're smart, I think you can see what is the best choice.
But Millennium sends Stephano to MLG Orlando, IPL 3, probably in Korea. And do not speak french on lan when you do not know
He is right, mil doesn't sent their players and won't going to sent them to international events.
Very confusing, I think complexity have some good lawyers at hand to draft such a solid explanation letter.
It sounds convincing - I think the onus is on Millenium and maybe even Stephano himself to state their side of the story to clarify all this now. Legalities aside, it'd be the right thing to do.
it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different?
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote: I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.
Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think.
You think the players are the best in CoL?
Being in an American team like Col means you're going to play at MLG, NASL, maybe GSL etc.. Being in a French team means you're going to play on stupid unknown french LANs.
You're smart, I think you can see what is the best choice.
But Millennium sends Stephano to MLG Orlando, IPL 3, probably in Korea. And do not speak french on lan when you do not know
He is right, mil doesn't sent their players and won't going to sent them to international events.
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote: I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.
lol @ another 1 post frenchy coming out of the woodwork to espouse how great staying with a team for less pay, worse practice, and no opportunity to attend lans or stay in a korean pro gaming house is beneficial for the player.
worse practice ? yeah sure look at all the fantastic results NA players have in tourneys...
oh my god, the french invasion!
he was supposed to go to korea with coL.
You don't know that... Unless I'm mistaking coL never send anyone in Korea, and didn't said in their announcement that they were sending Stephano to Korea. Easy to say that afterward...
When Huk left Millenium to TL and when ToD left to Fnatic there was no problem.
Not saying that Stephano was right but when you are negociating with a player during several weeks, you don't offer him a last counter offer et 4am and then ask him to sign immediately a contract.
coL.drewbie is currently living in Korea for a month, and there's been public statements from coL and MVP leaders saying there is more mutual interaction to follow
So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?
No, basically that means that making a 18-year old sign a contract at 3a.m without noticing his team is something that can have fallouts...
There are a lot of people like this guy I quoted whose first posts are in this thread and they're repeating this same nonsense which the OP already disproves.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Exactly if Stephano don't want to be on Complexity why can't they just 'Drop it'
If Stephano is happy with Millenium Leave him Alone. Stephano is probably upset right now because of possibility of Complexity trying to take Legal action.
Its not about his happiness, it about the professional integrity of contracts in esports, the whole issue transcends stephano's happiness
On September 20 2011 05:51 ArnaudF wrote: Come on coL you tried to screw Millenium and got screwed back and any law pursuit in France will fail. Get over it and stop saying that this isn't over or that the whole esport scene will be behind you and it'll be felt world-wide.
Deal with it.
Except it seems the whole esports community is on their side, besides French people it seems.
The WHOLE esports community, really? Yes that's true, I've seen reactions of each big names of SC2 stating that they are with coL.
60 pages of TeamLiquid isn't the whole esports community.
-_- Just using the language you used. And 60 pages is a pretty good gauge of the tl community and I would say that the overwhelming majority agrees that Millenium is in the wrong, whether they are legally or not I think everyone can agree they are ethically.
Yeah everyone can surely agree on this. Especially when we base this on two PR statements and some pieces of text from Complexity management and translated snippets from the Mill manager. We got the full picture and can all agree that Mill are ethically wrong, it's so simple!
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: Stephano and mil look like idiots
I don't want to use the word idiot but I think all 3 sides took a huge blow to their image, so there is no winner in this story regardless of how it ends.
Happens when you become greedy/think it's not necessary to communicate or take a proper amount of time to solve such an issue.
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote: what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
On September 20 2011 06:15 Galaxy613 wrote: Frankly, I doubt and want nothing to happen over this. He signed it, but it's just a few days old. From the sounds of it, no money or ANYTHING has been given to Stephano, and Stephano has done nothing for Complexity. If they have already sent Stephano a paycheck then yeah, then at the least Steph should return that.
But IMO Col. should just cut their losses and let him go.
Exactly what i'm thinking if Stepahno wants to stay on Millenium let him Stay.
Complexity is pursuing this ... etc Causing more Drama and Possible Shit Storm. I hope Complexity drops the possible lawsuit etc .... Let Stephano Choose.
You're not understanding the ramifications it has for future contracts in this field. Players cannot be permitted to continuously break legally binding agreements as they see fit without fear of repercussion. CoL is taking a stand after a great many of these same incidents have gone unanswered. Contracts are there to protect the players as well as the companies they represent.
If this practice continues, no sane person is ever going to want to invest in an ESports team with the knowledge that any investment they make in a player can be thrown in the garbage at any point, without compensation, by a player who randomly decides to jump ship.
Like it or not, businesses provide the foundation by which we spectators and players can thrive. Thus business and the contracts they make are of critical importance.
EPT
