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On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is.
no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement.
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Am I the only one wanting an actual lawsuit to push through and proceeded by an actual court decision? At least that way, there would be an actual case study precedent for contracts in the world of eSports.
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On September 20 2011 06:25 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Exactly if Stephano don't want to be on Complexity why can't they just 'Drop it' If Stephano is happy with Millenium Leave him Alone. Stephano is probably upset right now because of possibility of Complexity trying to take Legal action.
He should be upset, he fucked up big time. And complexity isn't just gonna drop it because they are doing the right thing for esports.
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On September 20 2011 06:19 gulbanana wrote:
it's a shitty thing to do to persuade a guy into signing a contract at 3 am and then immediately announce it online.. and it's completely bizarre to, on discovering that your 'contract' doesn't respect french employment law and he wants out, make legal threats.
do americans think contracts are magic? the way some of you talk about "legally binding" and a "word of honour" sounds quasi-religious. under EU law, complexity's offer is considered an offer of employment; it doesn't adhere to the standards for such a thing. it's as simple as that. stephano made a mistake while tired, woke up and paniced, then realised he wasn't legally committed. dumb of him, but it's not a major issue.
hardly anyone seems to realise that someone might be good at starcraft yet not WANT to fly all around the world and pursue a career in it. he's got a medical education ongoing and a fun hobby which makes him some money. if complexity can't pressure him into accepting a position on their team, then they should suck it up and not make themselves sound like legal idiots.
this is rather sloppy legal reasoning. first, in america as in everywhere else on the planet, offers for employment exist up until acceptance of that offer, upon which assent creates a binding contract. binding means that certain legal consequences arise from breach of said agreement. this is true everywhere, because without consequences, basic business functions would be impossible. i don't know which court will eventually take jurisdiction or what laws will apply or even if there exists a binding contract in this particular case, but please don't pretend like america is contract-obsessed while other countries are not. contracts are respected, encouraged, and enforced across the globe to the benefit of everyone. without contracts, the machine you submitted your post on would not exist. if complexity has a binding agreement, i hope they enforce it to the furthest extent possible. without legal success and the protection of team assets, kiss teams, mlg, dreakhack, etc. goodbye.
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It doesn't matter that Stephano is only 18. It doesn't matter that the contract was signed at 4:30am.
I'm not sure why Millenium keeps mentioning that. "Well, this contract doesn't count I didn't use my favorite pen to sign it"
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On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal. I'm genuinely not sure you're old enough to use a website like TL. It sounds like a very childish thing to imply that any and all contracts made should be okay to break. There would be no point to having a contract if you could just walk away from your agreement.
And you seem to have missed the point where one party says that the contract ISNT LEGAL. You don't sound to old yourself as what you're saying seem to imply that any contract is valid as long as you sign it.
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This is pretty ridiculous, Stephano seems to be to weak to stand up for himself and his choices.
This only goes to show how far we still have to go as an industry, before we're considered by ourselves and others as professionals.
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I honestly don't know what was going on in Stephanos' head when he decided to sign a legally binding contract and then decide not to follow through with it. According to Complexity he was given an amazing offer too. Millenium also trying to take away Stephano from Complexity seems rather low. Seems like Stephano isn't worthy of such an acquisition. Perhaps Complexity should spend some of their rather large budget on Korean players instead, it will likely result in a much better ROI than a foreigner.
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On September 20 2011 06:25 Kaedeleus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:19 sixfour wrote:On September 20 2011 06:17 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:12 sixfour wrote:On September 20 2011 06:09 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:04 DertoQq wrote:On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote:
I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion. Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think. You think the players are the best CoL?  well, i would think if he was flown to korea to play genius, dongraegu, keen, noblesse etc, he'd be playing people slightly better than tarson and adelscott I was speaking of the U.S. team, the Koreans are above all and Millennium can also have a partnership with a Korean team well come back to us when they've actually done it CoL may be an agreement with a Korean team but the players do not have the level to go there, basically they just buy Korean players
except drewbie is there right now? wtf how ignorant can you be?
oh, forgot to look at your post count and location first. now i understand.
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On September 20 2011 06:28 Carapas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:27 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 sixfour wrote:On September 20 2011 06:24 ZestyPickle wrote:
Yeah but depending on how the legal action progresses, Stephano may never set foot in the US unless he wants to answer to US law
this is a contract dispute, he's not killed anybody $$$$$ This is no a criminal case, this is civil, thus he can certainly come to NA anytime...
Im not arguing he cant come, Im saying he will have just have to answer to what ever us courts find, and if it thousands of dollars worth of damages he may not want to come
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On September 20 2011 06:29 Avs wrote:
Once again national pride somehow rises up and becomes more of an issue than the facts at stake. How sad guys. Legal systems blah, Stephano signed something he shouldn't have considering he decided NOT to honor it regardless of these "laws" (like they actually should be influencing Stephano's signing of that contract). And now Mill and Stephano are refusing to talk to CoL? Sound's like Stephano is being manipulated either by one or both sides, and is an idiot for causing this situation without trying to get everyone to talk it through. Drama ensues. The only reason why this is super big is because Stephano has been doing well, and any team would want to pick him up. Let's be honest, its not national pride at stake here, unless Mill decides to make it one by mentioning "french esports" more.
But they have.... quite a bit o.O
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On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote:
it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different?
Lets establish something with your quote okay.
A job is something YOU do to support YOURself. correct?
correct.
Keeping this in mind... lets touch economics, if you are in high demand with no supply you set the market. if you are in a market with low demand and high supply employers set the market cost.
This is Starcraft 2. There is a high demand of "good" player but low supply. So naturally the players are in a position to negotiate yes? Keeping this in mind how does one make sure they do not waste time/resources to gain a player? they form a contract.
YOU CAN'T BREAK A CONTRACT WILLY NILLY. coL is looking at legal action to create a precedence for what you could do and cannot do. They have legal counsel and are not afraid to use it. You can quit a job if there are plenty of you to replace, but if there is only one of you then it is a completely different matter.
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On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote:
it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different?
¸you are not just allowed to quit your job on a heartbeat, thats not how the real world works.
This thread sure delivers, somehow everyone is now a lawyer or a law student.
Truth is, what french law says doesnt mean jack shit, nor what the US law says, until we see the contract. And even then, you cant 100% say what a court would say.
To say that since hes french the US contract does not apply or is illegal is total nonsense though, there are international agreements in order to make a junction between the disparency between each country's jurisdiction. Of course a US contract in France wouldnt be valid itself, the US is a jurisdiction of Common law and France is civil law, so just saying ''well its not how we do it in France so its illegal'' is completely dumb and ignorant. Now to say that it would indeed be valid in France is another thing, and youd need the contract to say that (and be an experience lawyer with knowledge in both american and french law.)
Funny fact, its also a known fact juridically that common law jurisdiction (US) are usually not too severe on contract breaching, while civil law jurisdiction (france) are very severe. Some people seem to think the opposite in this thread.
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So many stupid kids that never signed a contract are getting over zealous here.
Lets take it the other way around, with another example.
EG promises Huk huge salary. They make the papers, they all sign them. First month of salary is half of what papers say.
Huk: "What the huk EG?"
EG: "We changed our minds"
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On September 20 2011 06:27 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:25 WightyCity wrote:
maybe he just signed without reading. i do that all the time. lol you don't do that when you are doing a legally binding contract like that.
fortunately, france provides its citiens legal protections for mistakes made in haste. stefano made a mistake, alright, but it needn't be life-destroying. why do you think it should be?
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On September 20 2011 06:29 Sadistx wrote:Stephano is very young, maybe he just doesn't understand how contracts work and what he signed was legally binding? I mean he's just a kid that plays starcraft 
he's 18.
That's at or above the age of majority in almost every country.
He's not 11. He has a brain, and should have used it.
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On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from?
The 21st century? It's not quitting a job, its agreeing to something and breaking that agreement. Its slimy. Regardless of whether there is a legal precedent, it just LOOKS bad and has the potential to ruin any chance for Stephano to be an e-sports superstar.
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On September 20 2011 06:26 sixfour wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:24 ZestyPickle wrote:
Yeah but depending on how the legal action progresses, Stephano may never set foot in the US unless he wants to answer to US law
this is a contract dispute, he's not killed anybody
They could prevent him from playing in US Tournaments.
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On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement.
How do you know the contract isn't valid?
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On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement.
You forgot the part that Millenium and Stephano are dodging coL.
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EPT
