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On September 20 2011 06:27 AzurewinD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 06:15 Galaxy613 wrote:
Frankly, I doubt and want nothing to happen over this. He signed it, but it's just a few days old. From the sounds of it, no money or ANYTHING has been given to Stephano, and Stephano has done nothing for Complexity. If they have already sent Stephano a paycheck then yeah, then at the least Steph should return that.
But IMO Col. should just cut their losses and let him go. Exactly what i'm thinking if Stepahno wants to stay on Millenium let him Stay. Complexity is pursuing this ... etc Causing more Drama and Possible Shit Storm. I hope Complexity drops the possible lawsuit etc .... Let Stephano Choose. You're not understanding the ramifications it has for future contracts in this field. Players cannot be permitted to continuously break legally binding agreements as they see fit without fear of repercussion. CoL is taking a stand after a great many of these same incidents have gone unanswered. Contracts are there to protect the players as well as the companies they represent. If this practice continues, no sane person is ever going to want to invest in an ESports team with the knowledge that any investment they make in a player can be thrown in the garbage at any point, without compensation, by a player who randomly decides to jump ship. Like it or not, businesses provide the foundation by which we spectators and players can thrive. Thus business and the contracts they make are of critical importance.
Except for the Contract was not within legal bounds the purported 'Contract' That CoL made Stephano Sign.
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On September 20 2011 06:24 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:19 Thurken wrote:On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:
So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling? No, basically that means that making a 18-year old sign a contract at 3a.m without noticing his team is something that can have fallouts... Hahahahah You can't possibly be that stupid?
A squad of mercenaries hired by the evil coL barged into Stephano's house at 3 in the morning, held a gun to his head, and forced him to sign a paper. I know this because I'm one of them. I'm leaking this info since coL is refused to pay us, saying our contract is invalid because it was signed at 2:58am.
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It sounds like Stephano does not quite know what he wants and that he's a bit confused and easily persuadable in this matter, which is quite understandable. Personally I can't help but stand more on coLs side. If you sign a contract you should stick with it, you should be forced to stick with it. If contracts cannot be properly enforced sponsors will become more and more hesitant to invest money into esports.
I wonder how long it will take before managers are introduced in esports. I'm assuming one of the main points of managers is to make sure situations like these doesn't happen by helping their clients make decisions that are otherwise over their heads.
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I don't think Stephano is "happy" with Millenium as some might say... I really think he is kinda afraid of how col's opportunity can change his life.
Just sayin =/
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Wow, did not see this coming.
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On September 20 2011 06:31 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:27 AzurewinD wrote:On September 20 2011 06:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 06:15 Galaxy613 wrote:
Frankly, I doubt and want nothing to happen over this. He signed it, but it's just a few days old. From the sounds of it, no money or ANYTHING has been given to Stephano, and Stephano has done nothing for Complexity. If they have already sent Stephano a paycheck then yeah, then at the least Steph should return that.
But IMO Col. should just cut their losses and let him go. Exactly what i'm thinking if Stepahno wants to stay on Millenium let him Stay. Complexity is pursuing this ... etc Causing more Drama and Possible Shit Storm. I hope Complexity drops the possible lawsuit etc .... Let Stephano Choose. You're not understanding the ramifications it has for future contracts in this field. Players cannot be permitted to continuously break legally binding agreements as they see fit without fear of repercussion. CoL is taking a stand after a great many of these same incidents have gone unanswered. Contracts are there to protect the players as well as the companies they represent. If this practice continues, no sane person is ever going to want to invest in an ESports team with the knowledge that any investment they make in a player can be thrown in the garbage at any point, without compensation, by a player who randomly decides to jump ship. Like it or not, businesses provide the foundation by which we spectators and players can thrive. Thus business and the contracts they make are of critical importance. Except for the Contract was not within legal bounds the purported 'Contract' That CoL made Stephano Sign.
Stop posting. Your knowledge of the US contract system is not even measurable.
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On September 20 2011 06:30 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:27 blade55555 wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 WightyCity wrote:
maybe he just signed without reading. i do that all the time. lol you don't do that when you are doing a legally binding contract like that. fortunately, france provides its citiens legal protections for mistakes made in haste. stefano made a mistake, alright, but it needn't be life-destroying. why do you think it should be?
Sorry when your an adult if you are not reading a legally binding contract and then just signing it you deserve the consequences. Why do you think he doesn't? I mean this is just dumb on his part.
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On September 20 2011 06:28 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote:
it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different? You don't know the terms of the contract. Nobody but complexity and milenium do. Don't post ignorant shit like this. For all we know, Complexity contracted Stephano not as a salaried employee, but as a contractor who would attend certain events and carry the Complexity tag.
What happens if you have carpal tunnel in-between 2 tournaments ? Are you protected by your employer ? So much gray area.
Saying it was a contractor agreement makes coL look bad.
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On September 20 2011 06:31 mechavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:26 sixfour wrote:On September 20 2011 06:24 ZestyPickle wrote:
Yeah but depending on how the legal action progresses, Stephano may never set foot in the US unless he wants to answer to US law
this is a contract dispute, he's not killed anybody They could prevent him from playing in US Tournaments.
Very possible. Or that all his winnings in US would fall to Col(same thing really). But it's all speculation.
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really unprofessional by Stephano.
loss my respect there.
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On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal..
this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment.
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It's all about whether he signed a contract with col already...
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On September 20 2011 06:18 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:12 Paladia wrote:On September 20 2011 05:58 meRz wrote:On September 20 2011 05:55 Paladia wrote:
As a law student, I cannot stress enough how bad of an idea it would be to take legal action. Even if both organisations were in the same country the cost could be more than the yearly turnover of both organisations combined. Doing it internationally is simply not a real option.
This is without even considering the legal basis of the claim. I've taken a look at some esports contracts between large organisations (such as SK-Gaming) and their players and the contracts are full of major holes and flaws, to say the least. This is after they've recruited a legal firm to "take a look at it".
As such, I am 100% sure that CoL will not take any legal action, as it could very likely be the end of them. It's not whether or not taking legal action would actually be beneficial in an econonmic manner. It's more like SOMEONE has to do it eventually because otherwise contracts will hold no importance If coL can take legal action without sinking themselves then I'd say go for it. As one soon learns, taking legal action is always the absolute last step and should be avoided at all cost. Even if they think it is a good idea now, in two years when this would finally go to court Stephano may not even play the game anymore and they themselves don't really care about it. This is without even considering the money, time and effort it would require during this period. As noted, they may not even have a steady ground to stand on in terms of the legal basis of their claim. It would be interesting to take a look at the contract but even if it was rock solid I wouldn't recommend anyone sueing someone internationally. Even national law suits should be avoided at (almost) all cost. First off, I'm pretty sure you know you don't have to tell me things like these. Secondly, this is beside the point. It's a ballsy move if coL were to follow through and yes it might lead to sick complications but it's still a move that someone eventually has to do if you want to keep validity of contracts within e-sports. If this is looked over again, and again, and again, contracts will hold absolutely no value in the end.
Of course but as others read it as well I may as well state the obvious. As for the contracts, yes, they will have to be enforced eventually if enough money is in the scene. It is getting to that point but as of yet the organisations do not have the financial muscles to go through with a law suit of this type, at least not internationally. It could likely lead to bankruptcy. For even if they would win, what would they gain? Who ever they sue will likely not be able to pay their legal fees anyway, and as for the actual damages by the breach, those are minimal if even existent in itself.
It should also be noted that this is not how it is done in the sports world. It would take too long and cost too much to go through the standard court system. You don't go around sueing players or organisations left and right. It is solved by some kind of court of arbitration, there is even a specific one for sports. If CoL were knowledgeable about this and had a solid contract, they would have made sure to use a court of arbitration in their contract and as such we would know nothing about this (as it is kept secret).
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On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement.
let's not be presumptive. we don't yet know which jurisdiction of laws will apply, nor which particular laws will apply to the case. folks on this thread are acting like finding a particular statute wins a case, qed. that's absolutely anathema to how the legal world functions. should complexity pursue this, regardless of what one law in one place might say, the litigation could go on for months, with any number of settlement offers along the way.
this is business, not math. there are no quick and easy answers when money is on the line. idle speculation as to quick or simple results is frankly unrealistic.
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On September 20 2011 06:32 ZestyPickle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:31 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 06:27 AzurewinD wrote:On September 20 2011 06:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 06:15 Galaxy613 wrote:
Frankly, I doubt and want nothing to happen over this. He signed it, but it's just a few days old. From the sounds of it, no money or ANYTHING has been given to Stephano, and Stephano has done nothing for Complexity. If they have already sent Stephano a paycheck then yeah, then at the least Steph should return that.
But IMO Col. should just cut their losses and let him go. Exactly what i'm thinking if Stepahno wants to stay on Millenium let him Stay. Complexity is pursuing this ... etc Causing more Drama and Possible Shit Storm. I hope Complexity drops the possible lawsuit etc .... Let Stephano Choose. You're not understanding the ramifications it has for future contracts in this field. Players cannot be permitted to continuously break legally binding agreements as they see fit without fear of repercussion. CoL is taking a stand after a great many of these same incidents have gone unanswered. Contracts are there to protect the players as well as the companies they represent. If this practice continues, no sane person is ever going to want to invest in an ESports team with the knowledge that any investment they make in a player can be thrown in the garbage at any point, without compensation, by a player who randomly decides to jump ship. Like it or not, businesses provide the foundation by which we spectators and players can thrive. Thus business and the contracts they make are of critical importance. Except for the Contract was not within legal bounds the purported 'Contract' That CoL made Stephano Sign. Stop posting. Your knowledge of the US contract system is not even measurable.
Check the Link i just updated in my Post.
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On September 20 2011 06:32 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:28 Gheed wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 gulbanana wrote:
it's a JOB. you are allowed to quit a job, if you want, because in 2011 most people aren't slaves. in france, you have the right to quit a job without notice within the probation period. even without that he could have just given notice, and been "on complexity" for 2 weeks! how would that have been substantially different? You don't know the terms of the contract. Nobody but complexity and milenium do. Don't post ignorant shit like this. For all we know, Complexity contracted Stephano not as a salaried employee, but as a contractor who would attend certain events and carry the Complexity tag. What happens if you have carpal tunnel in-between 2 tournaments ? Are you protected by your employer ? So much gray area. Saying it was a contractor agreement makes coL look bad.
maybe look into Professional sports injury workers compensation? w/e
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On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal. I'm genuinely not sure you're old enough to use a website like TL. It sounds like a very childish thing to imply that any and all contracts made should be okay to break. There would be no point to having a contract if you could just walk away from your agreement.
Did i say it was ok for him to break his contract ????
Did i say he acted legally?
He acted immorally, unethically and broke his contract (legal or otherwise), I simply tried to point out that coL are better off without him and should just leave it at that, all this threat of legal action is doing is causing a shit storm over something which i think both parties could of handled internally.
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I bet this is the sign of Stephano's career as a SC2 peaking right here. After his mental confidence is shaken by the legal pursuit behind his own inability to make his own decisions, he will begin to decline slowly into SC2 oblivion after becoming a player to watch out for. What a shame. And how significant that it doesn't come after a loss, or participation at a major tournament. Heard it here first Stephano.
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the funny thing is, until we know whether US or french contract law applies here....the whole discussion is 100% absurd haha
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EPT
