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Stephano contract situation - Page 72

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Tanith
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom108 Posts
September 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#1421
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:

Stephano signs contract with col

Stephano change his mind

coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it

Stephano and mil look like idiots

case closed


All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ZestyPickle
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
September 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#1422
On September 20 2011 06:21 Bellygareth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:17 ZestyPickle wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:15 Bellygareth wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:
On September 20 2011 05:52 Bellygareth wrote:
To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
- the contract signed by stephano would probably have been a "short term contract" or duration limited contract
- Stephano had not even started to work for Col yet.

Even outside the trial period, the employee can break a "short term contract" or duration limited contract, if he can argue that he has a long term duration contract available (CDI). In that case he can be forced to work a minimum duration for the previous employer (for a maximum of 2 weeks and the actual time would be lower because he didn't work for Col at all).

So Stephano was free to change it under french law in my opinion.
Disclaimer: it's not a lawyer opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I know how it works. Under french law, Col won't have any chance I would bet.



So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?

No.You just have to provide them job safety (ie : CDI as millenium did).


lololololol it doesnt matter what french law says, US law on a contract signed under the knowledge of joining a US organization.


I know you're just trolling or probably never worked one day of your life nor know what a contract is. But I will still answer for the third time :
I'm just presenting the side of what I know is true in France. I don't know international matters.
I was answering a specific question and you're randomly attacking even though I'm not taking any side whatsoever.

For international laws between US and Fr I don't know jack shit. I REPEAT : JACK SHIT. Now please stop arguing with nonissues.


I apologize <3
Kieofire
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1809 Posts
September 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#1423
On September 20 2011 06:21 Kaedeleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:18 DertoQq wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:09 Kaedeleus wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:04 DertoQq wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote:
I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.


Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think.


You think the players are the best in CoL?


Being in an American team like Col means you're going to play at MLG, NASL, maybe GSL etc..
Being in a French team means you're going to play on stupid unknown french LANs.

You're smart, I think you can see what is the best choice.


But Millennium sends Stephano to MLG Orlando, IPL 3, probably in Korea. And do not speak french on lan when you do not know


IPL 3 is sending Stephano to the event though, he got the free trip from qualifying.
cOoLiD
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada168 Posts
September 19 2011 21:22 GMT
#1424
On September 20 2011 06:18 Kaedeleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:17 ZestyPickle wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:15 Bellygareth wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:
On September 20 2011 05:52 Bellygareth wrote:
To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
- the contract signed by stephano would probably have been a "short term contract" or duration limited contract
- Stephano had not even started to work for Col yet.

Even outside the trial period, the employee can break a "short term contract" or duration limited contract, if he can argue that he has a long term duration contract available (CDI). In that case he can be forced to work a minimum duration for the previous employer (for a maximum of 2 weeks and the actual time would be lower because he didn't work for Col at all).

So Stephano was free to change it under french law in my opinion.
Disclaimer: it's not a lawyer opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I know how it works. Under french law, Col won't have any chance I would bet.



So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?

No.You just have to provide them job safety (ie : CDI as millenium did).

Stephano is french so the French law applies. That's all endpoint

lololololol it doesnt matter what french law says, US law on a contract signed under the knowledge of joining a US organization.



Can we get an ip on some of these new french guys with 1-7 posts. I have a really hard time believing they are different people.
Tamotab
Profile Joined September 2010
France38 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1425
On September 20 2011 06:19 Snorkle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:12 Tamotab wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:05 Snorkle wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote:
I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.



lol @ another 1 post frenchy coming out of the woodwork to espouse how great staying with a team for less pay, worse practice, and no opportunity to attend lans or stay in a korean pro gaming house is beneficial for the player.


worse practice ? yeah sure look at all the fantastic results NA players have in tourneys...

You are generalizing NA players now as complexity? Does that mean I get to bring Idra HuK Seth etc. in to this argument?

In reality world though col. has this cool deal with mvp where they can use their korean practice house and practice with their players.. which includes DRG

Also Slush is on col who does quite well for himself at tournaments. albeit quietly.


I was just saying that europe is not a worse practice area than NA
Koorb
Profile Joined March 2011
France266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 21:24:13
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1426
On September 20 2011 06:21 Kaedeleus wrote:
But Millennium sends Stephano to MLG Orlando, IPL 3, probably in Korea. And do not speak french on lan when you do not know


Stop saying nonsense, both Stephano and Millenium already stated that he wasn't going to Korea, and there's nothing that could make us think that Stephano is going to MLG Orlando.
Liquipedia
AnxiousHippo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia1451 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1427
Well... I don't know.
An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF
BrodiaQ
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States892 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1428
On September 20 2011 06:09 ArnaudF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:07 BrodiaQ wrote:
On September 20 2011 05:51 ArnaudF wrote:
Come on coL you tried to screw Millenium and got screwed back and any law pursuit in France will fail. Get over it and stop saying that this isn't over or that the whole esport scene will be behind you and it'll be felt world-wide.

Deal with it.


Except it seems the whole esports community is on their side, besides French people it seems.


The WHOLE esports community, really? Yes that's true, I've seen reactions of each big names of SC2 stating that they are with coL.

60 pages of TeamLiquid isn't the whole esports community.



-_- Just using the language you used. And 60 pages is a pretty good gauge of the tl community and I would say that the overwhelming majority agrees that Millenium is in the wrong, whether they are legally or not I think everyone can agree they are ethically.
"So come right up and let me squash your creativity with my iron fist of conservative play."--Nony
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1429
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:

Stephano signs contract with col

Stephano change his mind

coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it

Stephano and mil look like idiots

case closed


All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

you forgot

now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1430
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:

Stephano signs contract with col

Stephano change his mind

coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it

Stephano and mil look like idiots

case closed


All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


And then the next time Complexity (or any team) wants to sign a player they have to take into account that their contract is worth approximately shit because the player can just ignore it?

Fabulous solution.
Eliwood5837
Profile Joined July 2011
245 Posts
September 19 2011 21:23 GMT
#1431
er... what...?
Liquid`HerO Fighting! | Liquid`TaeJa Fighting!
Dietch
Profile Joined August 2010
France45 Posts
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1432
Its just like kids in the "sandbox" or maybe resemblance to child school when people win a pokemon card over you. You go cry to the teacher and gets it back, No, esports still has far to go.

I totally agree. I wrote the exact same sentence 2-3 weeks ago on the M† site about all these weekly players movements between teams again and again. Soccer player can only chnage teams on certains periods, when will we get this in esports ?

Seems to me that most of the players are kids, and in this case, Stephano is the one who made all the mistakes. However, he's a great player and will be a top world for sure, but still, he's just a kid.
A man's gonna do what a man's gonna do !
ZestyPickle
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 21:24:35
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1433
On September 20 2011 06:22 Kieofire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:21 Kaedeleus wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:18 DertoQq wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:09 Kaedeleus wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:04 DertoQq wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote:
I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.


Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think.


You think the players are the best in CoL?


Being in an American team like Col means you're going to play at MLG, NASL, maybe GSL etc..
Being in a French team means you're going to play on stupid unknown french LANs.

You're smart, I think you can see what is the best choice.


But Millennium sends Stephano to MLG Orlando, IPL 3, probably in Korea. And do not speak french on lan when you do not know


IPL 3 is sending Stephano to the event though, he got the free trip from qualifying.


Yeah but depending on how the legal action progresses, Stephano may never set foot in the US unless he wants to answer to US law
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1434
On September 20 2011 06:19 Thurken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:

So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?


No, basically that means that making a 18-year old sign a contract at 3a.m without noticing his team is something that can have fallouts...


All of that is irrelevant, a signed contract is still a signed contract.

Do you honestly think "Uhhh, i was tired when i signed the contract, so i'll just break it now" would hold up in court?
We make signature, then defense it.
Megiddosc
Profile Joined April 2011
United States966 Posts
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1435
On September 20 2011 06:19 Thurken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:

So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?


No, basically that means that making a 18-year old sign a contract at 3a.m without noticing his team is something that can have fallouts...

Hahahahah

You can't possibly be that stupid?
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1436
I can understand why some frenchmen are getting defensive about this. A lot of people are saying somewhat prejudiced/ignorant things about France and its legal system as a whole, which is silly. I got a little defensive and pissed when a bunch of other europeans and americans were calling Norway's penal system retarded back around the Utøya tragedy
memes are a dish best served dank
Dezire
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands640 Posts
September 19 2011 21:24 GMT
#1437
That'll be the downside of esports, you'll have to make contracts with kids x]
BoxeR, HuK, IdrA, Minigun, MVP <3
Kaedeleus
Profile Joined September 2011
France20 Posts
September 19 2011 21:25 GMT
#1438
On September 20 2011 06:19 sixfour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:17 Kaedeleus wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:12 sixfour wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:09 Kaedeleus wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:04 DertoQq wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:03 Kaedeleus wrote:
I think Stephano is better in France in Millenium than an American team at the other end of the world. Of course, but it's just my opinion.


Why ? He could play with better players, he could play in bigger tournaments. Millenium is keeping him from big things I think.


You think the players are the best CoL?

well, i would think if he was flown to korea to play genius, dongraegu, keen, noblesse etc, he'd be playing people slightly better than tarson and adelscott


I was speaking of the U.S. team, the Koreans are above all and Millennium can also have a partnership with a Korean team


well come back to us when they've actually done it


CoL may be an agreement with a Korean team but the players do not have the level to go there, basically they just buy Korean players
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 21:25:15
September 19 2011 21:25 GMT
#1439
On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:

Stephano signs contract with col

Stephano change his mind

coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it

Stephano and mil look like idiots

case closed


All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Exactly if Stephano don't want to be on Complexity why can't they just 'Drop it'

If Stephano is happy with Millenium Leave him Alone. Stephano is probably upset right now because of possibility of Complexity trying to take Legal action.
Never GG MKP | IdrA
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
September 19 2011 21:25 GMT
#1440
On September 20 2011 06:19 Thurken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:11 grobo wrote:

So basically signing a contract with a french person is like gambling?


No, basically that means that making a 18-year old sign a contract at 3a.m without noticing his team is something that can have fallouts...


Negotiations have been going for weeks involving all parties, and the contract was made late night french time, the post was made at 3 AM. There's a thing called timezones to consider.
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