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Stephano contract situation - Page 127

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
September 20 2011 05:57 GMT
#2521
This is such disappointing news, I just hope Stephano gets to pursue his dreams. Best of luck, easily one of, if not the best zerg in EU.
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
September 20 2011 05:58 GMT
#2522
On September 20 2011 14:39 Russano wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 14:15 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
On September 20 2011 14:09 Trickstaloki wrote:
I'm sorry but where do you get the impression that sc2 pro players have 100k salaries? That seems highly unrealistic, but I could be wrong if you could provide some evidence to the contrary...


Even though they didn't announce it, people are fairly certain that HuK is getting between 100k and 200k from EG. Not sure how they found out but people have a way of knowing things. Since Complexity said Stephano would be one of the highest paid players in esports, 100k sounds reasonable.


Highest salary = 100k, next 3 highest = 5k, 4k, 3k.

A 6k salary would make you one of the highest paid salaries, and actually the second highest. It in no way means you are at 100k.

Huk probably makes around 100k as the rumors were suggesting 6 figures. I doubt stephano was offered anywhere near 100k, It was probably much closer to 60k. (But who knows)





I don't see why these repeated team transfer problems come up. Is everyone involed just retarded? How can situations like this occur, I just don't see it.

Wait, do you really think the next highest salaries are 5k? A $6k salary will not put you anywhere near the top of sc2 salaries.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Trickstaloki
Profile Joined December 2010
United States164 Posts
September 20 2011 06:02 GMT
#2523
From his comment I think he meant 50-60k? 5k salary wouldn't even be considered a part-time job in the states. Also there's no way you could compare Huk and Flash for salary. BW has a much longer history and are sponsored by large corporations, and while we all believe in the power of the esports organizations they are in no way comparable to major corporations like Samsung etc.
insaneMicro
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany761 Posts
September 20 2011 06:03 GMT
#2524
^^ He was obviously missing zeroes, look at the rest of the post.
"Damn I played some fine Zerg right there". -Fruitdealer
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
September 20 2011 06:05 GMT
#2525
On September 20 2011 15:03 insaneMicro wrote:
^^ He was obviously missing zeroes, look at the rest of the post.

Thats what throws me off, he uses zeroes in the rest of the post
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Russano
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:10:21
September 20 2011 06:08 GMT
#2526
I was using hyperbole, not missing zeros. I wasn't using actual salary numbers. It was just to emphasize that "being one of the highest paid players" doesn't mean your just a few thousand behind the top.


Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
September 20 2011 06:10 GMT
#2527
Huk do not make 100k.
Thank God and gunrun.
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
September 20 2011 06:11 GMT
#2528
What he means is that player salaries are probably ridiculously top heavy so that the very top make a huge amount of money, but everyone gets peanuts.
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9582 Posts
September 20 2011 06:21 GMT
#2529
Hope everything will work out for complexity. If the kid signed a legally binding contract under US Law and not for a employment but as a contractor, he needs to man up and realise that a signature is final.

Dunno if he wanted to see how deep the rabbit hole goes and got scared half-way down, but either way it's his fault no matter how I look at it. If you're not completely sure, don't sign a contract. Ask for more thinking time.

I feel it's shameful that there's so much drama in sc2 right now, and this one could have been easily avoided.
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/user/LathamTK/builds/#view=CrqmP6
CrimsonReign
Profile Joined June 2011
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:24:39
September 20 2011 06:23 GMT
#2530
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
UPDATE #2 : Complexity release a full statement.
http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3129/

Their points in brief are as follows :

1- Complexity contacted Stephano first on September 1st as he was interested in joining the team.

2- Millenium and Complexity were in a bidding war for Stephano, but never pressured him into signing with them.

3- Stephano was fully aware of the terms of the contract.

4- Stephano contacted CatZ and Jason Bass (the manager of Col) and is quoted as saying "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then signed a legally binding contract.

5- Stephano would've been "one of the highest paid SC2 players in the world" at Complexity and they ensured that he would get "global travel" including to Korea.

Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"




UPDATE : http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3126/#

Apparently Stephano did sign a contract with Complexity and they won't let him go without a fight.

Also, a statement from Jason Lake :

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 03:00 jlake02 wrote:
For Mr. Page to insinuate we improperly "disoriented" a young player is an outright lie. We have spent weeks negotiating with Stephano and countering offers made by Millenium. This was no quick pressure situation.

We will take a step back and analyze the situation but I hope Millenium honors the rule of contract law and does not disrespect it in eSports. Doing so would set a precedent that would undermine all we are collectively trying to accomplish.

We will evaluate our options but I do not see a way we can allow this blatant disrespect for the contractual process to go unanswered. We will be contacting legal counsel in France and investigating courses of action.



http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/actualites/stephano-signe-avec-millenium-le-president-de-millenium-s-exprime-51014


Cedric "Cedrix" Page, President of Millenium :


"Since the start of Millenium, we dreamt of a french eSport platform that would discover young players with great potential, would support them in their passion and would follow them to the summits of skill...

Stephano joined Millenium at the start of Starcraft 2, practically unknown. We supported him as best as possible until today. He is now considered a great hope for the world circuit with amazing potential, and to have to let him go to another team would have been a complete failure for us, a nonsensical thing.

The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months

This troubled day was, however, full of lessons.
This morning, with the announcement of our player to an American team, the majority of the french community considered this transfer as a logical step. I even saw some amateur writers of our site write with sadness that Millenium "could not compare."

Now, let's stop bringing ourselves down, lets stop thinking that a french player has to play abroad to succeed. The Millenium.org site has more page his then SK-Gaming.com or any other european or american team outside of Team Liquid. Our budget is certainly one of the biggest in the world in terms of E-sports teams.
So let's stop seeing ourselves as worse because we are a french team.

Stephano will sign, as agreed a CDI(Contrat a duree indeterminee, ie: a contract of work with no expiration date) as a "Professional player," identical to those signed by professional sportsmen. He will travel across the world to attempt to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA. We put our hopes and dreams of a French victory on him, but we also expect a lot from our other Starcraft players and our soon to be League of Legends team...

Let them make us dream and cheer! Let Millenium shine, for all the passionate fans of electronic sports that we are!"

(Thanks to PlaGuE_R for the proper translation!)

Sad news for complexity, especially since he was only very recently announced to be joining them but great for Millenium and the French E-Sports scene.



refraining myself from making a comment that will get me banned against millenium=D.....Fairly sure...He signed a contract with Complexity already....you wouldn't announce a player on your team unless he did... So I'm fairly sure... Stephano is about to be in big trouble...for not understanding the seriousness of signing contracts. He is a young kid so its understandable but it seem the opposite from what millenium said and they are the ones trying to confuse him and mislead him as Millenium has no where near the resources as Complexity and them claiming they do is almost a joke. Seems to me Complexity offered stephano something that sounded amazing to him so he probably prematurely signed and millenium wanting to save their only real Ace player seems to be trying to act like he never signed a binding contract. Basically Way I see it... if he did sign that contract with complexity... hes is a complexity player and Millenium is going to have to get over it.... or if its more or less stephano not understanding the situation and maybe not telling Millenium he signed anything I think he should be punished instead of us looking down on the team who maybe has been lied too. Investigation begin!.
Vira
Profile Joined November 2010
573 Posts
September 20 2011 06:26 GMT
#2531
That's why Millenium spoke about "pressure" even if the term is too hard.

His manager said Stephano got many offer, from Mouz for example, etc, and of course CoL , since 3 weeks as CoL said. 4 days ago , Stephano said to Llewellys, hi manager : "Ok I stay with Millenium, I told CoL".

Then all Millenium staff discover at 4 a.m , CoL announce Stephano in their team.

You dont make sign a kid at 4 a.m with probably some "last time, make your choice ( in good way probably but .. ) .
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
September 20 2011 06:28 GMT
#2532
On September 20 2011 14:16 Bean5487 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


1) its not going to ruin his life, it will only cost him some money he will likely earn whilst playing on whatever team he ends up joining.
2) Its not an insignificant decision, you are signing a contract essentially for employment. To let him get away and screw over Complexity completely undermines the idea of Contract Law and the idea that contracts are BINDING. If you don't want to do it, DON'T SIGN. Its simple, if you do and breach, you're liable. It sets a bad precedent for esports because in any other legitimate sport, industry, etc the people who breach a contract are held liable. Just because the players play a game doesn't mean the contracts and business behind it are.

It seems all too often players are shrugging off the contracts they signed like they don't exist. I say take him to court, Complexity would be 100% in the right.


And going up in a french court they would 100 % lose. You'll see if it ever happens (I very much doubt it will).
Funkydonky
Profile Joined April 2011
950 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:35:06
September 20 2011 06:28 GMT
#2533
You are so delusional if u think that coL offered 60k/year to stephano. Would he really change his mind and accept 25k/year from millenium if it was like that.
CoL are no saints in this story, making a kid sign a contract in 3 am that is full of legal lingo which he probably doesn't understand that well.
Favorite players: Stephano, Mana, Polt, Lucifron, Nerchio
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
September 20 2011 06:31 GMT
#2534
Why is everyone under the impression coL is a big powerhouse organization? Pretty sure they havent been relevant outside of console games (who cares), and their deal with MVP to send their best players to LAN events.

Its not like they can force Stephano to keep his contract to the fullest extent, im sure there was many clauses in there, specifically around performances, and how those are handled. All he has to do is go in and play shitty for a month and he would get dropped like Lindsey Lohan as a child. If they do pursue legal action, then how is that helping esports? By flooding possible money spent on esports into the legal system? The flights, hotels, and lawyers themselves wouldn't be worth the investment.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Slider954
Profile Joined March 2011
United States342 Posts
September 20 2011 06:32 GMT
#2535
On September 20 2011 15:26 Vira wrote:
That's why Millenium spoke about "pressure" even if the term is too hard.

His manager said Stephano got many offer, from Mouz for example, etc, and of course CoL , since 3 weeks as CoL said. 4 days ago , Stephano said to Llewellys, hi manager : "Ok I stay with Millenium, I told CoL".

Then all Millenium staff discover at 4 a.m , CoL announce Stephano in their team.

You dont make sign a kid at 4 a.m with probably some "last time, make your choice ( in good way probably but .. ) .


Except for this part:

4- Stephano contacted CatZ and Jason Bass (the manager of Col) and is quoted as saying "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then signed a legally binding contract.

Seems like Stephano picked the time to sign the contract not Col, as he contacted them. And just to clarify, for me personally I don't believe the time of when he signed the contract has any bearing on the matter. Its 2:30 in the morning where I am and I'm more wide awake now than I am during the day.
I'm just pointing out that part out for everybody who is harping about the time.
Best in the world at what I do
mistermetal
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada76 Posts
September 20 2011 06:38 GMT
#2536
Personally, if nothing happens to Stephano because of the French courts. I hope GSL/IPL/MLG ban him from competing.

Actually, it would be the best way to get back at Mellenium, Col works a deal with MLG where they refuse to allow Mel to play.
Animism
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland130 Posts
September 20 2011 06:43 GMT
#2537
HuK said at in interview @ IEM (Cologne i think) that oGsMC has a salary of $250,000. Idra has said on State of the game that his Salary is above $100,000 and it was rumored that HuK was offered 6 digits from EG when they picked him up. I really wouldn't be surprised if Stephano was offered around 100,000 from Complexity, looking at their sponsor list.
Graupe
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany178 Posts
September 20 2011 06:43 GMT
#2538
So.. Millenium talked to him after he signed to Col and all sides knew about it? After that they are releasing a statement about Col pressuring Stephano? Holy shit, these are some serious bad mannered frenchmen.

Trying to convince a player who allready signed another contract (especially when he's so young) is soo bm imo.


Anyway trying to force Stephano to play for Col now wouldn't do any good, too. Nevertheless I think they should try to get penalties against Millenium cause their behaviour in this case is just inapropriate!


after all just my 2 cents..
Vira
Profile Joined November 2010
573 Posts
September 20 2011 06:43 GMT
#2539
The prob is CoL dont know Stephano , as French can know with interview, mates, manager speaking about him, etc.
He is very thoughtless , lives in the sky.
He always forget in Team Shirt in lan event ( his manager take one for him each time :D ), one time , all the team back to the hotel and they forgot him.
I dont have the word to explain but , Stephano is really a great but "weird" guyz in real life.

So, at 4 a.m with probably a hudge contract with nicely announcement, he said "yes" but , he changes his mind again and wasn't surprised with his personnality. He just dont really "care".

Anyway for the "law" part, there are no discussion : Millenium just cant lose and legaly , they are fine.
sk1nex
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland299 Posts
September 20 2011 06:44 GMT
#2540
Obviously while being unaware of any details that haven't leaked to the public, i hope complexity gets the better of this. Not looking for trouble to Stephano or anyone else, but I sincerely hope that this kind of things get a punishment of some sort. You can't just change your mind every minute, a legal contract is binding. Unless there is a trial period in this kind of contracts (meaning the kind of one where you can resign at any given time within the first X months), you are to follow the rules. I can't just sign a new work contract and suddenly stop going to work. I would be violating the terms of the contract. That's just the way it goes, context of eSports doesn't change it.
"Im at Quakecon, Gonna win the Duel and TDM. Quake is easy" (c) 2GD | NTHNTHNTHNTHNTHNTH
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