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Stephano contract situation - Page 125

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Animism
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland130 Posts
September 20 2011 05:04 GMT
#2481
I imagine that Complexity would be a better choice for him considering its a G7 team? One of the highest salaries in the world is bound to be around or above 100,000 dollars a year. It will be interesting to see where this goes because if Stephano signed a binding contract but does not abide by it, he could be prosecuted; but i'm not sure if CoL would do that as it may hinder the teams reputation (I can't think of any other player where this has happened though).

Ryder.
Profile Joined January 2011
1117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 05:07:12
September 20 2011 05:06 GMT
#2482
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.

Yeah exactly, don't know why people are like 'cmon guys put it in perspective, he is only 18, happens all the time, simple mistake blah blah'. This isn't just a video game, these are professional organisations with a profit motive forming real contracts offering real money to players... If people just take it as a joke then eSports isn't going to go anywhere.

Edit: spelling
dizzy101
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2066 Posts
September 20 2011 05:06 GMT
#2483
On September 20 2011 14:04 johnprospekt wrote: One of the highest salaries in the world is bound to be around or above 100,000 dollars a year.


100k? LOL, not a chance!
curlfry
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia103 Posts
September 20 2011 05:07 GMT
#2484
On September 20 2011 02:53 Fionn wrote:
Oh fun, more drama SotG can talk about tomorrow.


at least it's more interesting than GSL finals
the French are effectively gypsies with a steady income
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
September 20 2011 05:08 GMT
#2485
On September 20 2011 14:06 dizzy101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 14:04 johnprospekt wrote: One of the highest salaries in the world is bound to be around or above 100,000 dollars a year.


100k? LOL, not a chance!


You haven't been paying attnetion have you?

Its certainly around 100k
secret - never again
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
September 20 2011 05:08 GMT
#2486
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.
SwordfishConspiracy
Profile Joined December 2010
United States146 Posts
September 20 2011 05:09 GMT
#2487
I suspect there's more to this story than we're getting from Complexity. That being said, if it's actually that simple (Stephano signed a contract and then changed his mind) I'm all for them taking legal action against him. In any other industry the company in question wouldn't hesitate to do that and I think if people are going to take esports and their contracts more seriously there needs to be a real threat of consequences. If he gets out of this unscathed what's to stop other players from doing the same thing in the future? I'm not saying to try and throw him in jail just to make an example but there need to be some kind of punishment if he really did what they're saying he did.
SwordfishConspiracy
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
September 20 2011 05:09 GMT
#2488
On September 20 2011 14:06 dizzy101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 14:04 johnprospekt wrote: One of the highest salaries in the world is bound to be around or above 100,000 dollars a year.


100k? LOL, not a chance!


it's complexity, 100k for a top player is possible.
Trickstaloki
Profile Joined December 2010
United States164 Posts
September 20 2011 05:09 GMT
#2489
I'm sorry but where do you get the impression that sc2 pro players have 100k salaries? That seems highly unrealistic, but I could be wrong if you could provide some evidence to the contrary...
doomed
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia420 Posts
September 20 2011 05:09 GMT
#2490
On September 20 2011 14:07 curlfry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:53 Fionn wrote:
Oh fun, more drama SotG can talk about tomorrow.


at least it's more interesting than GSL finals


I guess it leaves Incontrol and Tyler with content to distract the conversation from why they are not amongst the higher paid players, or at least amongst the successful ones. anyway, another day and another thread.

But hopefully at least one of them (people on SoTG) takes the time to try and get some actual information from the organizations and ideally players on what the next step is.
jyLee
Profile Joined August 2009
United States350 Posts
September 20 2011 05:10 GMT
#2491
I fully expect Stephano to not even bother fighting this out and surrender to coL...

User was warned for this post
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
September 20 2011 05:10 GMT
#2492
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


Ruining someones life ? Breach of contract would litteraly nearly not do much, its more to set an example then the actual consequences.
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
FXOpen
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1844 Posts
September 20 2011 05:11 GMT
#2493
On September 20 2011 13:48 TurpinOS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:36 Frankon wrote:
On September 20 2011 12:45 FXOpen wrote:
a US contract would not comply with French contractual law. The only way legal action would work is if stephano entered the united states and was subpoenaed.

Whilst this whole situation sucks... Theres no legal grounds for anything other than threats.

Should be put into op also.
Based on all the players FXO have (i mean from around the world) i would say Boss have a pretty good knowledge about all the problems about contracts.


The only problem is its not actually totally true... (juridically)

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:38 wunsun wrote:
Just went over my law notes (engineering student here that took a mandatory Engineering Law class).

Please note that all of this is for Engineering, and is in Canada.

Contracts in Canada are defined as private legal relationships; only the 2 parties can sue or be sued under the laws of the contract.

Elements of Enforceable Contract are the set of promise that the law will enforce; five main principles.
1. intention to create a legal relationship
2. offer and acceptance
3. consideration (exchange of consideration)
- what is being exchanged (something of value)
- “quid pro quo” – give something for something else (exchange value)
4. both parties have relevant capacity (know what they're getting into)
5. contract is legal

Even though it is stated that it was a written contract, verbal contract are just as enforceable as written contract. The only problem is that it is difficult to determine what was said. Lastly, in Canada there is a the State of Frauds which state what contract must be written down for it to be enforceable. Anyways, this is a moot point as the contract was written down and signed.



Even though this is all true, its only applicable to common law jurisdiction (as far as canadian contractual common law is concerned, its very much like the US contract law), the issue at hand is the conformity with french civil law, and the applicability of said contract signed in the US in France. This last subject being governed by internation law.

Dont think anyone doubts the legality of the contract in the US.


Whilst I appreciate your study and knowledge. There are reasons why global companies set up entities in every jursidiction where they have staff/contractors/outsourced employees.

The reason I have stated prior. Every single contract has to be individually tailored to the local contract law. In order to do this properly you need a local entity.

Some may raise the example of things like, lets say, cristiano ronaldo transfering between Man U and Real Madrid.

The reason that Real Madrid do not require a local entity is because the player is being imported. So will eventually be compliant with local law/standards.

From my knowledge coL are not importing stephano, but he would be employed contractually in France for a foreign organisation which does not hold any office or business registration in France.

He then is only subject to US jursidiction, which does include Canada, as mentioned by yourself. However, it does not include France.

Another thing to think about is that of all the legal mix ups involved, it actually contains two of the most annoying contract law jurisdictions in the world. The united states and france.

France is a terrible place to get involved in contract law, unless local of course as the laws sometimes make no sense and are a bit rough around the edges.
www.twitter.com/FXOpenESports
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
September 20 2011 05:11 GMT
#2494
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.



Complexity is pretty much obligated to press the legal issue, or else all the trolls in this thread saying things like "lol complexity contract is a joke its meaningless" are actually correct. A young person who makes a mistake still has to suffer the consequences of that mistake, or else they'll just keep doing it.
Haze.884
Profile Joined July 2011
New Zealand192 Posts
September 20 2011 05:11 GMT
#2495
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


So, if a legal action potentially ruins a young man's life, you shouldn't take a legal action?
And how is that insignificant decision? If what Complexity is saying is true, he signed a LEGAL DOCUMENT.

I am sure its better to take a legal action and send a message to E-Sports scene that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
a
iamahydralisk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States813 Posts
September 20 2011 05:12 GMT
#2496
While I dislike the idea of severely damaging Stephano's career as a progamer (I feel like banning him from tourneys would do this), I do feel like he should be punished, somehow. Like others have said, "I changed my mind" is not a valid reason to get out of a legally binding contract. That is, if the contract IS legally binding.
"well if youre looking for long term, go safe, if you expect it to end either way, go risky. wow. just like sc2" - friend of mine when I asked him which girl to pick
Trickstaloki
Profile Joined December 2010
United States164 Posts
September 20 2011 05:12 GMT
#2497
Breaking contracts without punishment sets a terrible precedent. Contracts exist for a reason, and should be honored. Either way, terrible decision making from Stephano and shows his immaturity.
SwordfishConspiracy
Profile Joined December 2010
United States146 Posts
September 20 2011 05:12 GMT
#2498
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. If he's signing an extremely lucrative contract under American law he should know what the American laws are. In any other industry they would laugh and sue the pants off of him, he's lucky the Complexity is even considering taking the high road in this case.
SwordfishConspiracy
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
September 20 2011 05:13 GMT
#2499
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


How is he ruining a Stephanos life?

Stephano pretty much screwed himself. Gave up on more money, and any other US leagues/Tournaments (NASL, MLG, IPL, and future Blizzcons).
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
September 20 2011 05:15 GMT
#2500
On September 20 2011 14:08 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 13:58 emc wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:44 Jtom wrote:
Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"


yes, take legal action. This pisses me off and I really don't even care about coL as an organization but it's shit like this that really angers me. Anytime there is a breach in contract it just gives esports a bad name and shit like this needs to stop. I lost all respect for stephano after a move like this.


So you are for potentially ruining a young person's life because he made a very small, very insignificant decision that may be completely legal in the country he lives in, all in the name of e-sports? This type of thinking just doesn't make sense to me.


You can't stand around digging your own grave and say "I hope this turns out well for me".
Legal action isn't going to effect Stephano's life.
Stephano's illegal action is going to effect his life.

Do you see the difference?
Actions have consequences. As the old saying goes, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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