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On September 18 2011 06:40 skatbone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 15:08 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Really interesting, though I still think it might be unfair towards zerg, especially zerg that favor lategame where they stockpile resources/larvae. My zerg has an SQ of 58.996 while my severely underdeveloped and weak terran has 72.440 (and one of my games actually getting a 98.093 SQ after 12 minutes :o). Or maybe I am just playing zerg wrong... I am definitely pretty passive unless its ZvT. Do you cue up a lot of units in your production building as Terran? Afaik, this counts toward spent resources even though you are really deferring the use of the minerals and gas. Zerg can't do this.
No, I make it a main point of my play to not queue units. The most units that I queue is 1 beyond the one building and I try to get it as close to when they are going to pop out as I can. I have built up a pretty good internal clock for checking this stuff.
I decided to focus really hard on macro with my zerg though and I pulled off a few 79's and a couple 80/81's.
My "macro" really falters in ZvT when I get to mutas though, as I am always short on gas and high on minerals. I also tend to try and deal as much damage as I can with mutas prior to trying to engage when I max. Perhaps this is a bad style, I am not sure... but it seems to work relatively well. I hate trying to be aggressive against a terran, especially when they are kind of turtle style.
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This is fascinating shit, like I seriously need to spend time looking at this come monday (my bday woo!) because Im sure I dont understand half of what Im reading right now.
Impressive and thank you so much this may change the way I practice!
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siick post dude, a very nice read. i worked out my SQ at 70 but im only in gold league so maybe i guess there are some exceptions  very fun experiment.
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mind is blown. thank you sir.
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Seeing the bronze league graphs always being the odd one out kind of saddens me  Still in bronze. LOL
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Too lazy to get into the hardcore math stuff, but still, the Idra League was priceless
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Impressive post! Even the possibility to participate is given with your formula. Thank you 
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Impressive..
Thats def a read worth
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Amazing stuff.... Laughed so hard at the Idra-part..... ^^
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My last game was 21 minutes long and I produced 130 probes. Does this mean I'm a GSL champion :D!?
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I reached a period where I felt I played really well when I was in platinum, where I ended up having an 8 win streak or something.
I calculated my SQ for all of those games and took the ones where the games went past the 20 minute mark to simulate a 3+ base situation where macro starts becoming demanding at those levels.
The SQs for each game were at:
86
61
70
77
77
76
Which averages to 74,5 which would be beyond the general master league level. Could explain how I went on such a winning streak at that point, as I did personally feel that something clicked for me macro-wise those games.
Normally my macro starts falling apart once I reach three bases or so, and I occasionally float 400/400 at two bases, but things were going well in those particular games, and the SQ formula represents it well it would seem.
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I actually feel embarrassed not to have a big post on my own to honor this.
The work you did is really awesome. I have struggles to find words to describe it more accurately. sry
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Fantastic post, great read! <3
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On September 18 2011 23:04 Dalavita wrote:
I reached a period where I felt I played really well when I was in platinum, where I ended up having an 8 win streak or something.
I calculated my SQ for all of those games and took the ones where the games went past the 20 minute mark to simulate a 3+ base situation where macro starts becoming demanding at those levels.
The SQs for each game were at:
86
61
70
77
77
76
Which averages to 74,5 which would be beyond the general master league level. Could explain how I went on such a winning streak at that point, as I did personally feel that something clicked for me macro-wise those games.
Normally my macro starts falling apart once I reach three bases or so, and I occasionally float 400/400 at two bases, but things were going well in those particular games, and the SQ formula represents it well it would seem.
Hmm yeah, I htink a lot of lower players actually have surprisingly good macro, more than others think. I think the thing that separates masters from diamond(I am diamond myself) is control and multitasking. Most diamond players can macro aswell as a masters player for 95% of the game. Its that 5% where they are trying to micro or defend/harass at the same time, where the diamond usually fucks one of the things up. They either slip in macro or lose a lot of units, and the masters player gets ahead of them.
I actually think the importance of micro is not emphasized enough, everyone when telling you how to improve says "macro macro macro!", but once you reach the higher level using your units properly is MUCH more important than letting your minerals float for a few seconds. consider that you could lose 1000 minerals worth of marines to banelings by not looking for 1 second, where as it would take quite a long time of not producing any scvs to your economy a similar amount.
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I think that the difference between most platinuns and most diamonds are the timed attacks (and the ability to keep the multitasking/macro in this situation).
Ok, you are platinum, you can have a good macro, so what? Why are you not pushing and trying to trade armies in a good way for you? Well, if all you have is macro, then you can still lose for some reasons. I don't think micro/positioning will be the mainly reason, but instead, the timings and then the micro and macro multitasking. The timing in your +1 atack, the timing in you stimpack/speed, all these are important and can cost you the game.
I actually thought that macro wasn't that important because of timed attacks and such, but I was impressed that GMs have a better SQ regardless of it being a low economic game or what, so now I believe a lot more that macro matters that much, I will try to improve it with more emphasys now, thanks OP <3
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This is an amazing post. Thanks for spending time to work this out
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Nice write up....
But I was thinking, this SQ might be a bit off.
I mean say you are a Gold/Plat player and your worker creation skills are lower than the higher leagues, as was proven in your excellent analysis. Then your avg. income will never get as high as the income of higher level players than you, and you won't have trouble keeping your resources low.
In that case you would get a high SQ score, even though your macro could be terrible.
So that might explain, why a lot of players in Plat / diamond calculate their SQ and get results around Masters level, even though they get out macro'ed by higher level players than them selves.
The point is that there is actually more than one way of being bad at macro, first you could make a ton of workers and not be good enough at spending your income, which is what SQ determines, and secondly you could be bad at making workers but still be good at using all you resources, where SQ has kind of a loop hole. In both cases your would probably be using the same amount of resources as everyone else in your league, which is probably why you are there in gold/plat/diamond or what ever.
I'm not hating on the post, I think it's great, just think that it has a loop hole, I mean with this calculation, you kind of assume that "constant worker production" is constant and not faulty throughout the game (at least when your not cutting workers on purpose).
Say I play a game, with my gold buddies and I only make like 40 workers all game long, doesn't matter I'm on 3 bases, I just don't remember to build them. And because I'm terrible at macro'ing just like anyone else in gold, I can only use what resources my 40 workers gather. Then at the end of my 30 minute game, I might have avg. unspent 447 and income 1415, which is like IdrA, only IdrA's game is 14 minutes long and he probably got harassed a lot in that period.
The problem is that then my SQ would look exactly like IdrA's, and i might even have won because of how terrible everyone is in gold, so now I actually think I'm good, and that was not exactly what was intended with SQ.
If I've overlooked something that makes my argument look stupid, please go ahead and ridicule this post
hf
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EPT
