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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 63

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20344 Posts
February 26 2013 19:40 GMT
#1241
With the game since patch 2.0 only showing average unspent (which is expected to vary wildly depending on income as shown in this thread) how do we calculate SQ? There's no income stat
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Numiro
Profile Joined February 2013
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 11:16:04
March 02 2013 11:15 GMT
#1242
How accurate is the GGtracker? I've recently seen some weird shit going on because I've barely played 100 games yet and I've got something like 20+ games with GM spending (5/6 games today comming back to WoL after 80 games in HotS beta) (1000+ average resources). Is there a way to track where I do wrong without looking through every single replay and calculate all the little misstakes? It feels like I'm able to spend all that because I do something wrong because I know that I'm not this good.


http://ggtracker.com/players/690687#?page=1 is my WoL account, inactive untill today.

http://ggtracker.com/players/952593 is my HotS beta account.
dsjoerg
Profile Joined January 2012
United States384 Posts
March 05 2013 01:34 GMT
#1243
On March 02 2013 20:15 Numiro wrote:
How accurate is the GGtracker?


We've looked at the Spending Skill data several different ways and it is accurate. There are many skills to the game, Spending is only one of them. So there are players who are much better in their Spending than in the other parts of the game, you might be one of those.
card-carrying grubby fan. developer of GGTracker.
Numiro
Profile Joined February 2013
3 Posts
March 05 2013 12:19 GMT
#1244
On March 05 2013 10:34 dsjoerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2013 20:15 Numiro wrote:
How accurate is the GGtracker?


We've looked at the Spending Skill data several different ways and it is accurate. There are many skills to the game, Spending is only one of them. So there are players who are much better in their Spending than in the other parts of the game, you might be one of those.


Okey thank you for the reply, I always felt like I was spending stuff to late (like seeing 400 minerals, sending probe when it hits 450 and expansion goes down at like 800 minerals and so on) If you're responsible for ggtracker in any way, shape or form I'd like to thank you alot, you have no clue how useful that has been for me who've just started playing this game!
MattMannion
Profile Joined July 2012
United States25 Posts
March 05 2013 17:34 GMT
#1245
for sq take your total collected resources and divide it by the game length then use your average unspent to get your sq
www.twitch.tv/mattmanni0n master terran and sometimes zerg :)
Deleted User 245622
Profile Joined January 2012
184 Posts
March 05 2013 18:56 GMT
#1246
On March 06 2013 02:34 MattMannion wrote:
for sq take your total collected resources and divide it by the game length then use your average unspent to get your sq


im sorry but thats not what sq sq is:
SQ= 35*(0.00137*I-LN(U))+240
dsjoerg
Profile Joined January 2012
United States384 Posts
March 06 2013 00:32 GMT
#1247
On March 06 2013 02:34 MattMannion wrote:
for sq take your total collected resources and divide it by the game length then use your average unspent to get your sq


How do you get your total collected resources?
card-carrying grubby fan. developer of GGTracker.
Race is Terran
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States382 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-27 17:32:36
July 27 2013 17:30 GMT
#1248
links don't work anymore :/

edit: heres one that does
Faster69
Profile Joined July 2013
69 Posts
July 27 2013 17:36 GMT
#1249
Wow, this is really impressive. Alot of work put into this.
nucLeaRTV
Profile Joined May 2011
Romania822 Posts
July 28 2013 11:40 GMT
#1250
According to this: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/9669862#best you can now see your SQ (or something similar) from replay data.
"Having your own haters means you are famous"
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
July 28 2013 15:10 GMT
#1251
I wish there were numbers for workers killed. You would think the higher up you go, the more harassing is happening and the more workers are constructed.
Jezebeth
Profile Joined May 2013
United States23 Posts
September 19 2013 21:24 GMT
#1252
Is there any way to get the data used in this project? I would be interested to see the data points for this
Success is not never falling. In fact, success is falling- and getting up one time more.
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
September 20 2013 16:36 GMT
#1253
according to this i macro like a nub
When cats speak, mice listen.
HaloLegend98
Profile Joined June 2013
United States54 Posts
February 16 2015 04:13 GMT
#1254
Is there anyway that this analysis could be updated with more recent info from HOTS?

I.e. downloading a data set to a program, say excel, the going through it?
Coldblackice
Profile Joined April 2011
United States49 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-03 19:58:56
May 03 2015 19:58 GMT
#1255
On February 16 2015 13:13 HaloLegend98 wrote:
Is there anyway that this analysis could be updated with more recent info from HOTS?

I.e. downloading a data set to a program, say excel, the going through it?


I'd be interested in this, as well!
dchaudh
Profile Joined March 2015
58 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-18 00:26:09
July 18 2015 00:22 GMT
#1256
First off, many thanks to OP and all other contributors for fleshing out the concept of SQ - it's quite an elegant performance metric for an otherwise complicated game.

I wanted to get folks thoughts on an "accounting adjustment" to the unspent resources metric that's used to calculate SQ.

As has been mentioned, overqueuing can skew SQ. However, we can adjust for this skew by adding back the resource cost of overqueued units. Let's take a simple example at a specific moment during the game:

The concept:

Let's say that at a particular moment in the game, I have 300 unspent minerals and my production facilities are one command center and one reactored barracks. Let's assume that the CC has 1 SCV in production and 2 more SCVs in queue; let's also assume that the reactored rax has 2 marines in production and 4 more in queue (i.e., two production cycles in queue, in addition to the pair of marines that's currently under production).

At the moment, the calculation of SQ take into account the 300 unspent minerals (along with the unspent minerals at every other point during the game, ofc). My proposal is that a more accurate value for unspent minerals (at this point in time) would be as follows:

300 unspent minerals (as-reported figure)
+ 50 mineral add-back for the second SCV in the CC queue
+ 100 mineral add-back for the third and fourth marines in the rax queue
--------------------------------------------------------------
450 unspent minerals (pro-forma figure)

In this example, I implicitly apply a rule that it's okay to have one production cycle in queue at any given point (in addition to the current production cycle). In performing the calculation above, we're simply "pretending" that the SCV and the two marines were not overqueued to begin with. This rule is of course up for debate (e.g., it's debatable whether any queuing ought to be allowed - even of one production cycle).

Conceptually, we can apply this pro-forma adjustment (to use an accounting term) to unspent resources at every time-unit for which data is reported in replays. Using adjusted unspent resources (rather than as-reported unspent resources) would yield an SQ which is a better indication of the quality of macro.

Feasibility:

At the moment, I'm not too familiar with the format of replay data. From using SCELight, it seems that the unspent resources at any given point is known. However, I'm not sure whether it's possible to determine the number of units in queue at each production structure at any given time. (Note: even if it's the case that we're not explicitly provided the queue per structure at any point in time, we may be able to deduce it based on other provided data - I'm just not sure atm.)

My questions:

1) For those of you who are familiar with replay data formats: is it possible to infer the queue per structure at any given moment in a replay?

2) (Really only worth discussing if the answer to #1 is yes) What is the appropriate queue threshold to use when making the adjustment to unspent resources (e.g., no queuing allowed at all vs. 1 production cycle allowed in queue vs. 2 production cycles allowed in queue..., etc.)
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
July 18 2015 01:28 GMT
#1257
Looking back at this and comparing to all the plots and analysis in the lotv subforum, this is an amazing presentation of the data and analysis! To-the-point easy to read plots, but yet honestly presented, clearly showing what you want to show, and how large the differences are. Not more text than needed. I don't say this easily, so well done.
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