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Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 67

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
September 02 2011 19:21 GMT
#1321
It is not match fixing in that people betting aren't getting scammed. Therefore, it seems absurd that fans should have a right to demand this being illegal.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
September 02 2011 19:24 GMT
#1322
I think that if can actually offer more fun games to watch, and it really helps alleviate the problems with team-kill finals.
Egyptian_Head
Profile Joined October 2010
South Africa508 Posts
September 02 2011 19:27 GMT
#1323
On September 03 2011 02:43 Neo.NEt wrote:
Personally I can't believe how many of you don't care about this. I want to see people living and dying by one series and doing whatever it takes to win. Once you take the competition out of something... I'm out.


Yeah some of us care about personal freedoms more than starcraft.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
September 02 2011 19:41 GMT
#1324
On September 03 2011 04:21 Gummy wrote:
It is not match fixing in that people betting aren't getting scammed. Therefore, it seems absurd that fans should have a right to demand this being illegal.


I think it's unfortunate that the word "illegal" was used in this thread. It's more about whether it should be allowed or against the rules or not. Illegal, in the strictest sense means criminal, which really isn't what we're debating. Although, some actual legal ramifications have been brought up, it's more a question of should it be allowed (by the tournament).
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
September 02 2011 19:44 GMT
#1325
On September 03 2011 04:15 SlipperySnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 03:18 N3rV[Green] wrote:
I just wish I understood this mindset of entitlement so many SC2 fans seem to have.

What gives you any kind of say in what happens with the money a player wins? How are you involved at ALL?

It just really really bothers me that people can be so vocal about something that matters so little to them.


I think fans have a right to demand legitimacy in their competitions and at the end of the day the fans are the only reason the players are even able to make money. If people are tuning in to see a legitimate competition then I think the fans have a right to ask the players to expect that rather than just seeing this as an occasion to cash in.

the problem is that when 2 friends meet in the finals, even if they arent deal making they probably still are friends and will share the money anyway...

i guess im trying to say this... even if dealmaking was outlawed they would simply know in their heads the deal is going on because they agreed to chop in finals long ago and said dont speak about it again. so the two finalists would say they arent chopping to follow the rules, then after the tournament is over one guy would give some money to his uncle then his uncle gives it to the other finalist. short of tracking everyones bank statements its impossible to regulate this


i guess the truth comes down to this. when two friends/teammates are in the finals, automatically you can expect it to be less competitive than if two people that hate eachother are in the finals


however, if the finals is big the fame/exposure that comes from winning it can never be shared. so with that in mind there is still a big prize for the winnner and in that case it can still be somewhat competitive
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 02 2011 19:46 GMT
#1326
Okay, guys. Another scenario!

You have two players who need to play for third-place in a tournament. However, they talk to each other and realize that they don't want to play the match and decide to split 50/50. They go to the tournament organizers and inform them of this. The tournament organizers go, "Fine," and split the prize for them, 50/50.

Better or worse than deal-making? What if this happened in, say, the finals instead of the bronze match? Here, they go through the proper channels and split, but deprive the viewers of any games. With deal-making, players split on their own but still provide games for the public, which may or may not have been affected by their deal and other external, uncontrollable factors.
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 19:51:51
September 02 2011 19:50 GMT
#1327
This (the OP) seems fine to me. If the players are just playing for money, they are garbage anyway. Any real player is going to want to win.

Seriously, why on Earth would you play SC2 just for money? Just go work at McDonald's and you have a significantly higher chance of making more money with far less effort.

The real prize is the title.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
September 02 2011 19:51 GMT
#1328
that's a dumb "scenario" and you know it.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
September 02 2011 19:51 GMT
#1329
On September 03 2011 04:46 babylon wrote:
Okay, guys. Another scenario!

You have two players who need to play for third-place in a tournament. However, they talk to each other and realize that they don't want to play the match and decide to split 50/50. They go to the tournament organizers and inform them of this. The tournament organizers go, "Fine," and split the prize for them, 50/50.

Better or worse than deal-making? What if this happened in, say, the finals instead of the bronze match? Here, they go through the proper channels and split, but deprive the viewers of any games. With deal-making, players split on their own but still provide games for the public, which may or may not have been affected by their deal and other external, uncontrollable factors.


This would never never happen, if someone ever did this they would be the scum of the earth. You can make up your little scenarios all you like but this would never happen...
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 19:55:03
September 02 2011 19:54 GMT
#1330
On September 03 2011 04:51 NexUmbra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 04:46 babylon wrote:
Okay, guys. Another scenario!

You have two players who need to play for third-place in a tournament. However, they talk to each other and realize that they don't want to play the match and decide to split 50/50. They go to the tournament organizers and inform them of this. The tournament organizers go, "Fine," and split the prize for them, 50/50.

Better or worse than deal-making? What if this happened in, say, the finals instead of the bronze match? Here, they go through the proper channels and split, but deprive the viewers of any games. With deal-making, players split on their own but still provide games for the public, which may or may not have been affected by their deal and other external, uncontrollable factors.


This would never never happen, if someone ever did this they would be the scum of the earth. You can make up your little scenarios all you like but this would never happen...

http://www.gotfrag.com/war/story/39159/

Lol, not so dumb, right?
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
September 02 2011 19:58 GMT
#1331
Would need more background info.

In any case it's still dumb. I can't see why a tournament would agree with this.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
J.E.G.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States389 Posts
September 02 2011 20:02 GMT
#1332
I don't think its that bad.... true competitors in any sport never want to split, they want to win. I think this will keep happening, but in isolated instances. I never play for money when I get on the NA ladder, but I still have the desire to win.
Do or do not; there is no try.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 20:05:52
September 02 2011 20:04 GMT
#1333
On September 03 2011 04:58 Carnac wrote:
Would need more background info.

In any case it's still dumb. I can't see why a tournament would agree with this.

I'm trying to do some more digging into the matter at the moment, but articles are very skimpy on the details, unfortunately. Mostly just a passing mention of Grubby and Lucifer each receiving $2500.

I guess you'd have to ask why the tournament organizers would even choose to split the bronze prize between the two players. If one didn't want to play, it should have been a forfeit. But if both didn't want to play, it would make more sense -- though still not very much, since ... if either one of them didn't want to play, the other could just say he was up for the task and come out $2500 richer due to the forfeit.
DreamChaser
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
1649 Posts
September 02 2011 20:05 GMT
#1334
On September 02 2011 07:34 nkulu wrote:
When the difference between first and second is huge and both of them think its basically a 50/50 chance I can see why they would want to split the winnings instead. Playing without nerves will probably make better games for the spectators anyway.


Um no... Champions are players who can overcome nerves and WIN. 2nd,3rd placers are the kind of people who fall to nerves if there is a 50,000$ money to the winner i want to see a REAL champion not the result of a "friendly" match between team mates if i wanted to see that i would watch streams. Also you must have never been in a situation were the championship is on the line people are able to go beyond and above when they REALLY want to win its all about guts.
Plays against every MU with nexus first.
pzea469
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1520 Posts
September 02 2011 20:11 GMT
#1335
completely legal and not much you can do. I mean, If i want to split the cash with my opponent after I win, and if my opponent wants to do the same, there's nothing you can do. It's their money to then split. The money shouldn't be the only incentive to win in the first place. It should be about proving you are the best to the world. So regardless whether the money will be split or not, the match will be good. Because if there are any players that are in finals matches that only care about money and don't care about SC2 as a sport or care about proving they are the best, then prize splitting is the least of our worries. Because being competitive doesn't mean wanting money, it means earning it through giving it your best and showing the world what you got. So completely fine and legal and I'm totally okay with it.
Kill the Deathball
hacky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
September 02 2011 20:17 GMT
#1336
I don't understand any of this animosity toward prize splits. If both parties agree and it only affects both parties in terms of prizes, what business do you have with what they do? They've already earned their keep.
http://raptr.com/hacky
MerciLess
Profile Joined September 2010
213 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 20:19:47
September 02 2011 20:18 GMT
#1337
I think because of the relatively small size of the Starcraft 2 scene and it's easy accessibility, people feel a little too entitled of the professional players. We watch them stream, we follow them on twitter, we can even talk to them a lot of the time. That doesn't give us the right to dictate how they lead their professional careers. We are not entitled to tell them how to play in tournaments. As long as they are within the rules, it's not up to us what they do. That guy that lost two games on purpose to White-Ra to balance out the series? Completely his decision. Splitting a top prize after an agreement was reached beforehand? Completely the players decision. Quit feeling that because you watch free streams with adblock off that you deserve any sort of say in their decision making. Just because YOU don't want them to do this doesn't make it wrong. This sort of thing happens in poker all the time, and poker fans don't say how unfair it is. It's just part of the game, and not an unreasonable decision when you are playing a teammate, or feel that you have a 50/50 chance of winning.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 20:21:45
September 02 2011 20:19 GMT
#1338
Bottom line is that this shouldn't be illegal.

If a player does this, you can hate on them all you want for not being competitive or whatever, but legally they've done nothing wrong.

It would just be a stupid thing to do because you're going to lose fans.
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
September 02 2011 20:28 GMT
#1339
On September 03 2011 05:19 TedJustice wrote:
Bottom line is that this shouldn't be illegal.

If a player does this, you can hate on them all you want for not being competitive or whatever, but legally they've done nothing wrong.

It would just be a stupid thing to do because you're going to lose fans.


Wait, your reasoning for why it shouldn't be made illegal is that it's not currently illegal? And how will we lose fans by making it illegal?
/commercial
MerciLess
Profile Joined September 2010
213 Posts
September 02 2011 20:32 GMT
#1340
On September 03 2011 05:28 Novalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 05:19 TedJustice wrote:
Bottom line is that this shouldn't be illegal.

If a player does this, you can hate on them all you want for not being competitive or whatever, but legally they've done nothing wrong.

It would just be a stupid thing to do because you're going to lose fans.


Wait, your reasoning for why it shouldn't be made illegal is that it's not currently illegal? And how will we lose fans by making it illegal?


#1 He's saying it's not illegal so nothing should be done in the way of punishment towards the players

#2 He's saying the players could(potentially) lose fans if they split prizes, not that making it illegal will lose fans
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