EPTShould "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 65
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
PolSC2
United States634 Posts
| ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:42 vrok wrote: So no punishment then? Then that's not even a rule. Either way, it doesn't matter what you think. 64% says this is/should be illegal and quite a few are extremely vocal about it. If you don't like it you can go play poker. I do play poker lol, and it doesn't matter it's gonna happen wether u like it or not and you're not going to know about it and nothing is going to be regulated, and players will still try their hardest to win ignorance is bliss | ||
|
N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
| ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:46 ReignFayth wrote: I do play poker lol, and it doesn't matter it's gonna happen wether u like it or not and you're not going to know about it and nothing is going to be regulated, and players will still try their hardest to win ignorance is bliss I think any finals match should just be double or nothing. | ||
|
vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:46 ReignFayth wrote: I do play poker lol, and it doesn't matter it's gonna happen wether u like it or not and you're not going to know about it and nothing is going to be regulated, and players will still try their hardest to win ignorance is bliss I know that you play poker. Otherwise you probably wouldn't think that shit like this is ok in the first place, like the majority of this community. Anyway, trying to prevent it isn't the point because that's impossible, like you said. The point is that if any of us find out, there will be hell to pay. You can take that to the bank. | ||
|
Azureflames
United States35 Posts
1st - $44,480 2nd - $17,790 to 1st - $34,480 2nd - $27,790 In this reorganization of payouts there is still a nice piece of change and the prestige for first place to be fought over. I'm sorry to say that the prestige is not enough for everyone to give it their all. I think that in any finals match for a tournament both players should be trying to play their best to win and not take it easy because it doesn't matter to them since they are guaranteed 50% of the money. The higher the tournaments payouts the larger the gap, numerically not necessarily percentage-wise, should be. | ||
|
Brainling
United States660 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:50 vrok wrote: I know that you play poker. Otherwise you probably wouldn't think that shit like this is ok in the first place, like the majority of this community. Anyway, trying to prevent it isn't the point because that's impossible. The points is that if any of us find out, there will be hell to pay. You can take that to the bank. "There will be hell to pay", "Take that to the bank". What are you, a politician? What are you gonna do, make an internet thread about it? Seriously, drop the tough guy act. First off, you'll never know, and second, even if you did there is zero, absolutely zero, you could do about it, other than make another internet thread. | ||
|
nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
Top-level progamers want the prize money to live comfortably. Top-level progamers are willing to make deals in secret. Right? Does anyone else see the danger here? If a 55/45 back-room deal is good for the players, then hey, what about a 145%/155% deal for players agreeing to actually fix the match? Fans won't know, and the players will both benefit. Before someone responds that nobody with self-respect would do something like that, remember, altering the payout behind the scenes is already lying to fans and tournament officials. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this: I agree that the lopsided prize pools are not a very healthy setup in the long run, but for now I think players need to play the hand they are dealt. | ||
|
Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:45 babylon wrote: For every example you bring up, you can find a counterexample. Calm and Hwasin played fraudulent games? Well, ToD and Grubby didn't. This type of deal-making happened (and still happens) all the time. Blame the players involved in playing those fraudulent games, not the actual practice of deal-making. It's possible to split and still play good, authentic games for the audience if the players are of good character and both agree to give it their best. The point is besides whether the players play properly or not. The most important thing, is that it brings the whole competition into disrepute. It doesn't matter if 99% of the pros out there still give their absolute best with these deals, because the tournament organisers, viewers, sponsers, and all the other onlookers will focus on the chance that they're part of the 1% that won't. It's unavoidable. Having said that, it's nearly impossible to detect or stop these kinds of deals, so I would ask progamers to either keep it to themselves, or just avoid it completely. | ||
|
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:51 Azureflames wrote: Just because it doesn't effect the quality of every single match does not mean it's okay for it to happen. I'm sure there have been some events where the matches still appeared to be 'good' which may have been 'great' if the players had just a little bit to lose. What should happen is there should be some behind the scenes deal with the tournament organizers to reorganize the payouts if the players desire but still maintain a good chunk for the winner. E.g. you could reorganize GSL payouts which I believe are: 1st - $44,480 2nd - $17,790 to 1st - $34,480 2nd - $27,790 In this reorganization of payouts there is still a nice piece of change and the prestige for first place to be fought over. I'm sorry to say that the prestige is not enough for everyone to give it their all. I think that in any finals match for a tournament both players should be trying to play their best to win and not take it easy because it doesn't matter to them since they are guaranteed 50% of the money. The higher the tournaments payouts the larger the gap, numerically not necessarily percentage-wise, should be. I don't know about the laws in Korea, but in the U.S. this would create a legal problem with the event advertising that first place gets $44,480, when really they are only getting $34,480. | ||
|
ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:45 babylon wrote: For every example you bring up, you can find a counterexample. Calm and Hwasin played fraudulent games? Well, ToD and Grubby didn't. This type of deal-making happened (and still happens) all the time. Blame the players involved in playing those fraudulent games, not the actual practice of deal-making. It's possible to split and still play good, authentic games for the audience if the players are of good character and both agree to give it their best. The fact that it leads to some fraudulent games is enough to be a big issue, the possibility of having fraudulent games at all undermines the whole spectator competition structure. It's not like if there's more valid games than fraudulent ones then we're good. | ||
|
Brainling
United States660 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:52 nanoscorp wrote: It seems like a slippery slope to assume the following: Top-level progamers want the prize money to live comfortably. Top-level progamers are willing to make deals in secret. Right? Does anyone else see the danger here? If a 55/45 back-room deal is good for the players, then hey, what about a 145%/155% deal for players agreeing to actually fix the match? Fans won't know, and the players will both benefit. Before someone responds that nobody with self-respect would do something like that, remember, altering the payout behind the scenes is already lying to fans and tournament officials. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this: I agree that the lopsided prize pools are not a very healthy setup in the long run, but for now I think players need to play the hand they are dealt. Because one is legal (prize splitting), the other is illegal in all 50 American states, and I would imagine most countries this game is played in. Has nothing to do with self-respect, has to do with the law. | ||
|
N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:55 ZapRoffo wrote: The fact that it leads to some fraudulent games is enough to be a big issue, the possibility of having fraudulent games at all undermines the whole spectator competition structure. It's not like if there's more valid games than fraudulent ones then we're good. There's always the possibility of fraudulent games, whether players are deal-making or not. | ||
|
RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
| ||
|
Azureflames
United States35 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:54 Kaitlin wrote: I don't know about the laws in Korea, but in the U.S. this would create a legal problem with the event advertising that first place gets $44,480, when really they are only getting $34,480. The players are offered that amount of money for winning but are choosing to donate a portion of it to second place. If there is still a legal problem then the players can agree to pay the portion of the winnings to the second place players after the fact and if they don't then they could be banned from the event. The reason the event officials need to be aware is so that they can attempt to prevent match fixing by trying to limit the amount the players share and to enforce players actually splitting the winnings. | ||
|
N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:58 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: It should be up to the tournament to allow or disallow. I like to think that tourny's like homestory would be a fan, but gsl/mlg wouldn't, and thats how it should be The thing is, its the players money when they win it, and can do whatever the fuck they want with it, the tournaments cant tell player what can or cannot do with their own money. | ||
|
nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:57 Brainling wrote: Because one is legal (prize splitting), the other is illegal in all 50 American states, and I would imagine most countries this game is played in. Has nothing to do with self-respect, has to do with the law. If the law is sufficient to discourage one behavior, what about tournament rules forbidding secret deals with respect to prize winnings? | ||
|
TheBamf
Denmark366 Posts
| ||
|
babylon
8765 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:05 TheBamf wrote: It really makes e-sports looks silly if things like these occour, this is supposed to be nail-biting competive matches of people who fight for honor and money. Not some matches where it is "Well I win no matter what..." Firstly, they're still fighting for honor and prestige. Secondly, what if the split is 60/40 or 55/45 (as everyone and their mother would agree that 50/50 is borderline idiotic)? They're still fighting for money. So you see ... | ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:52 nanoscorp wrote: It seems like a slippery slope to assume the following: Top-level progamers want the prize money to live comfortably. Top-level progamers are willing to make deals in secret. Right? Does anyone else see the danger here? If a 55/45 back-room deal is good for the players, then hey, what about a 145%/155% deal for players agreeing to actually fix the match? Fans won't know, and the players will both benefit. Before someone responds that nobody with self-respect would do something like that, remember, altering the payout behind the scenes is already lying to fans and tournament officials. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this: I agree that the lopsided prize pools are not a very healthy setup in the long run, but for now I think players need to play the hand they are dealt. this becomes match fixing which I and nobody agrees with, it's an entirely different matter, also usually for that to happen there is more than the 2 players involved in this | ||
| ||
