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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 02 2011 20:22 zeru wrote: You can't say it doesnt affect the quality of games when the only case of money splitting we know of it has affected the quality of games. it didn't affect the ToD vs Grubby case did it? | ||
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Brainling
United States660 Posts
You want to stop prize splitting? Tell these tournaments to not have some ridiculous variance in the prize split, so that someone other than first place can make a living at this. There is a reason poker lets this happen pretty much freely. They've realize that big prize variance excites fans, but that they need to allow the players to actually create a viable lifestyle as well. So the crowd sees the huge prize variance, while the players on the back end have cut that variance down for their long term benefit as professional players. | ||
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Brainling
United States660 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:58 ReignFayth wrote: it didn't affect the ToD vs Grubby case did it? Not only that, but people are grabbing on to this QXC - Fenix thing because it's the most egregious case, and it's out in the open. It's like those local news guys who latch on to every missing child case and make you think that every person you see on the streets is a predator out for your kids. Punish the guilty (in this case QXC for actually throwing a match because of the deal), but allow the ones who are doing their jobs to...do their jobs, and not assume they are all cheats who make these deals then throw matches. If you see someone actually throw a match over something like this, it's not a prize split deal anymore, it's match-fixing. People need to know the difference. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
anyway as naz pointed out in a very professional manner, ignorance is bliss | ||
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:05 AGIANTSMURF wrote: Because you are removing the mental stress and tension that comes naturally when there is money on the line, if its some Shitty tournament that no one has really heard of then money would certainly be more important to the players then the title. By making a deal to split the winnings you are without a doubt removing that natural mental stress which has an undeniable impact on the game. Yeah, a positive impact most likely. If a player isn't nervous about potentially losing out on thousands of dollars if they lose, they should be more likely to perform better without that stress, right? If it's a low-level tournament, then the money is probably such that a deal isn't even worth it. We're talking about major tournaments here, with thousands of dollars difference between 1st and 2nd, not some local LAN where the payouts are $100/$50 for 1st/2nd. I think deal-making should absolutely be allowed until tournaments fix their shitty prize structures. If tournaments don't want to officially sanction it, then whatever, but it can and should happen for the time being. It's completely unfair to players to be expected to just accept the kind of variance tournament structures allow for currently, and it's equally unfair to criticize players for looking out for their own financial security in the face of such variance. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 02 2011 22:31 blanks.yuC wrote: Also the fact that you want to split the money means that you care about it, don't you? So don't bullshit that you don't. It doesn't make sense. and fans should stop bullshitting that players don't care about winning either | ||
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lvent
United States140 Posts
It really isnt an issue for me I lose my money on table games and such lol; But I am sure people will be betting on those games there and I would be leery of doing so. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On September 02 2011 12:54 ReignFayth wrote: read carefully, they didn't just split the prize pool, someone forfeited matches so it was match fixing really Read it again. From that article: "While I did offer to give him 300 dollars as a token as friendship because he had previously split with me when I was 2nd/3rd numerous tournaments in the past, it was not an intentional forfeit, rofl." - ADHD And from this board http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290017: "We have split before in the past, but I didn't think it would be a big deal if I had played the set out. That's where I was wrong, and which is why I'm banned from Dallas." - Mew2King They both insisted they played their best and played to win. They still got banned. Why? Deal making and match fixing, the lines can easily be blurred. It's their word against MLG's suspicions. Just like we have to take TT1's word for it that he didn't throw the match. That is the point a lot of people are making. | ||
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Trumpet
United States1936 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:58 ReignFayth wrote: it didn't affect the ToD vs Grubby case did it? It definitely affected Hwasin vs Calm. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:12 Ownos wrote: Read it again. From that article: And from this board http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290017: They both insisted they played their best and played to win. They still got banned. Why? Deal making and match fixing, the lines can easily be blurred. It's their word against MLG's suspicions. Just like we have to take TT1's word for it that he didn't throw the match. That is the point a lot of people are making. which is why I guess it shouldn't be allowed to talk about splitting a prize, since there might be misinterpretations about the games played and results in bad decision from management | ||
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Regulate140
Canada108 Posts
As far as I'm concerned that's extremely low, making a deal is one thing, purposely playing like ass because you know there's no risk involved is an entirely other. | ||
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CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
I think TT1 is silly for going 1 base carriers and shit, you should really be playing the games out completely normally (a- to avoid drama and b- to entertain the fans/sponsors who support you) As far as match fixing, thats only a problem if there is gambling on the results. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:01 Brainling wrote: I love all the indignant rage over players doing what they choose with their money, yet almost no rage for the completely broken prize structures these tournaments are putting forward. You want to stop prize splitting? Tell these tournaments to not have some ridiculous variance in the prize split, so that someone other than first place can make a living at this. There is a reason poker lets this happen pretty much freely. They've realize that big prize variance excites fans, but that they need to allow the players to actually create a viable lifestyle as well. So the crowd sees the huge prize variance, while the players on the back end have cut that variance down for their long term benefit as professional players. I pretty much agree with this. I mean, as long as each player gives it his best regardless, then who cares? We're still getting a good show put on for us one way or another. If they play like lazy assholes tho just because there's no risk involved to make them HAVE to try, THEN we have a problem. I don't think that's too big of an issue tho amongst the SC2 pros. | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:17 ReignFayth wrote: which is why I guess it shouldn't be allowed to talk about splitting a prize, since there might be misinterpretations about the games played and results in bad decision from management So we finally agree that if it is found out that someone is "deal making", they should be banned? Alright then, so why bother arguing? Even if it is for talking about it and not actually doing it, the end result is the same. You make a deal for prize-splitting and the community/organizers/whatever finds out, thereby casting doubt over the integrity of the competition, you're done. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
It's a more positive attitude, and you're being incentivised by the right thing then (To be the best) rather than they money. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:27 vrok wrote: So we finally agree that if it is found out that someone is "deal making", they should be banned? Alright then, so why bother arguing? Even if it is for talking about it and not actually doing it, the end result is the same. You make a deal for prize-splitting and the community/organizers/whatever finds out, you're done, permanently. no not banned, I think this should be accepted, I just think too many spectators are being drama queens and their entitlement is disgusting | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:40 ReignFayth wrote: no not banned, I think this should be accepted, I just think too many spectators are being drama queens and their entitlement is disgusting So no punishment then? Then that's not even a rule. Either way, it doesn't matter what you think. 64% says this is/should be illegal and quite a few are extremely vocal about it. If you don't like it you can go play poker. | ||
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Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:42 vrok wrote: So no punishment then? Then that's not even a rule. Either way, it doesn't matter what you think. 64% says this is/should be illegal and quite a few are extremely vocal about it. If you don't like it you can go play poker. But I'm not in the 64%.... | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:17 Trumpet wrote: I just want to point out for people saying it doesn't affect matches, we've seen that even at the very top for korean BW players who play 10-12 hours a day out of passion, when given the opportunity to split the prize, the games often become fraudulent. Calm and Hwasin got to the finals of a chinese tournament and whispered each other before the start of every game telling one another what builds to do to make it look like a real game instead of playing it out for real. I don't think any viewers enjoyed that experience. I think it's lame when it happens, and an even split definitely affects how someone plays. A 60/40 split between teammates, especially when a tournament has an incredibly skewed prize distribution, isn't as big a deal, however, and generally is still plenty enough money to motivate real matches. For every example you bring up, you can find a counterexample. Calm and Hwasin played fraudulent games? Well, ToD and Grubby didn't. This type of deal-making happened (and still happens) all the time. Blame the players involved in playing those fraudulent games, not the actual practice of deal-making. It's possible to split and still play good, authentic games for the audience if the players are of good character and both agree to give it their best. | ||
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