EPTTherefore, any discussion of it is moot. If players want to do this, they will, and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 66
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beef42
Denmark1037 Posts
Therefore, any discussion of it is moot. If players want to do this, they will, and there's nothing anybody can do about it. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
What gives you any kind of say in what happens with the money a player wins? How are you involved at ALL? It just really really bothers me that people can be so vocal about something that matters so little to them. | ||
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riff
United States113 Posts
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: I just wish I understood this mindset of entitlement so many SC2 fans seem to have. What gives you any kind of say in what happens with the money a player wins? How are you involved at ALL? It just really really bothers me that people can be so vocal about something that matters so little to them. Do fans have any right to expect that a tournament that 1) they are spending their weekends watching, 2) paying for passes to watch in HD, 3) attending in person, is being played out according to the rules of the tournament ? It just seems like the players seem to think the rules don't apply to them as long as they figure a way to keep it secret. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: I just wish I understood this mindset of entitlement so many SC2 fans seem to have. What gives you any kind of say in what happens with the money a player wins? How are you involved at ALL? It just really really bothers me that people can be so vocal about something that matters so little to them. Nobody cares about what players do with their money. What people care about, is how players are earning that money. If it's by essentially fixing games before they're played and turning them into friendly matches with nothing on the line, then that's cheating, plain and simple. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On September 03 2011 02:54 Telcontar wrote: The point is besides whether the players play properly or not. The most important thing, is that it brings the whole competition into disrepute. It doesn't matter if 99% of the pros out there still give their absolute best with these deals, because the tournament organisers, viewers, sponsers, and all the other onlookers will focus on the chance that they're part of the 1% that won't. It's unavoidable. Having said that, it's nearly impossible to detect or stop these kinds of deals, so I would ask progamers to either keep it to themselves, or just avoid it completely. TT1 would've kept it to himself if he didn't get swindled in the first place haha. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:26 mderg wrote: I don´t get what´s so bad about that... Do you really think the players don´t try their hardest to win? Some of them yes, watch the gamegun final | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:23 riff wrote: I don't care if this is considered match fixing or not, it goes against the spirit of competition. If you want my eyeballs on your events, you better respect the integrity of the game. If a known instance of this occurs at any significant event (and that's a big IF), I think it will damage the SC2 community and the players involved. The WC3 scene didn't suffer any damage at all from this, and I'm pretty sure it was known -- or at least, I knew, at any rate -- that there were a lot of top pros splitting prize winnings if they were on the same team. | ||
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Azuzu
United States340 Posts
It's another case of pros not realizing they are in the entertainment business, first and foremost. If I head to the local casino and the top 4 people agree to chop, no one gives a shit because the spectators are in no way enabling the prize money I stand to gain. Go to a major televised tournament and there is no way they will let you chop. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:30 Kaitlin wrote: It seems many people are using the example that this goes on in poker to explain that it's ok and doesn't affect gameplay. Well, what if everyone at a final table agreed to a more equitable distribution of the winnings, except for one person. So, if that one person won, they got the entire 1st place prize. Are you telling me the deal made by the other players would not result in all of them ganging up on the one who didn't make the deal ? I have a hard time believing that would NOT affect the game. In the poker situation your discribing that is exactly what happens 99% of the time. If ONE guy blocks a deal the table usally gangs up on him. I've been that one guy blocking a deal and playing 7v1 in poker is not fun or even winnable. I ended up finishing 5th. Would have had a much better chance at winning had no deal be presented. People saying that deals do not effect the game are blind. Part of what draws us to watch the finals of a tournament is the fact that these players are the best, and under alot of pressure. Pressure makes for good TV, look at the game show deal or no deal. Do you think that show would be 1/2 as entertaining if they didn't get the money afterwards? I know that even if we outlawed deal making it would still happen but at least it would happen less. And when it happens the players involved wouldn't do something stupid like 1 base carrier..... | ||
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AdreN-
United States503 Posts
On September 02 2011 19:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: That's why it is important to split the debate up into two parts. Nobody should disagree with it being illegal to talk about, no matter how you feel about it as a whole. Morally I think players should never share prize winnings to an extent of playing for nothing at all. When poker tournaments accomodate deals behind the scenes they will also keep this in mind. They will help setting up deals but they will always require a sum of money to be left in the middle. This is so that the players will continue to try at 100% to win. For example let's look at the Dreamhack Invitational where it was $16,000 for first and nothing for second. Two players splitting $8,000 each to me is morally wrong. Two players splitting $6,000 and $10,000 each to me is not morally wrong. Case 1 you deprive the viewers of quality games. Case 2 you have no negative influence on anything. I very much question whether you can have rules against any of this, so we are left with questions regarding the morals of the situation. Agree 100%. However, where do you draw the line in terms of "chopping" being OK? What if the agreement was $7,750/$8,250. You still have $500 on the line but it's different than having $16,000 on the line I feel. One problem that your point illustrates is the awful payout structure of most SC2 tournaments. | ||
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Athrun
Philippines16 Posts
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Elldar
Sweden287 Posts
Even if the above statement is the consensus, if two teammates make and deal and split the pot that should be considered illegal but how could you prove it? If someone from that same team expose their teammates, it is still a word against word situation. What this mean is that pot splitting could be easily done. The main goal when you come the finals is not always the cash prize but also the placement. Getting a better position in the tournament is still the driving factor for the final matches so I don't feel we are getting robbed of good matches if this is widely acceptable in clans/teams. | ||
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ramaen
United States2 Posts
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
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SlipperySnake
248 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: I just wish I understood this mindset of entitlement so many SC2 fans seem to have. What gives you any kind of say in what happens with the money a player wins? How are you involved at ALL? It just really really bothers me that people can be so vocal about something that matters so little to them. I think fans have a right to demand legitimacy in their competitions and at the end of the day the fans are the only reason the players are even able to make money. If people are tuning in to see a legitimate competition then I think the fans have a right to ask the players to expect that rather than just seeing this as an occasion to cash in. | ||
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