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On September 02 2011 19:42 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Haha HolyArrow is the ultimate type of hater. Better start thinking of more clever ways to hate on EG when they inevitably start winning. Oh wait.. theyve already starting to win gogogogogoo
The thing, for me at least, is SlayerS has shown that they have the ability to develop their own players (Min, Ryung, Alicia, MMA) while EG hasn't. It creates this notion that EG is just a weak team that buys success rather than cultivates it themselves.
Edit -
It's also been proven, by Taeja and Ganzi, that players who join SlayerS improve a lot. The opposite can be said for EG and their acquisitions (exception being PuMa and Huk since it's too early).
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On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete.
So its better for the players who DESERVES a good team to stay in a dying/weak team or stay without a team? Get a fucking grip.
Good teams can also benefit from good players, not just the way that they can win games or tournaments. As i said on my post, team like Slayers can use these good players to teach their secrets and skills to those who are much worse and unknown. Players like Buzzle, MMA and Boxer are like Sensei's to these guys. Without them there wouldn't be as much of those raising starts.
ps. i'm not saying that Zenex is dying or anything.
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On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete.
This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument.
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On September 02 2011 19:49 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. stay in a dying/weak team
Zenex is dying, because slayers stole 2 players already.
They weren't dying before slayers stole their players without authorization of Zenex manager,
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On September 02 2011 19:39 vertical101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:19 ptbl wrote:
Slayers becoming more like EG. Not liking this at all. how about the other teams(like oGs etc etc) who got player from Zenex? are they becoming like EG too?stop blameing slayers its not their fault that Zenex dont have sponsor and cant support their player.
Please tell what players ogs picked from zenex that is on the same calibre as coca and puzzle.
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On September 02 2011 19:49 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:42 Angelbelow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Haha HolyArrow is the ultimate type of hater. Better start thinking of more clever ways to hate on EG when they inevitably start winning. Oh wait.. theyve already starting to win gogogogogoo The thing, for me at least, is SlayerS has shown that they have the ability to develop their own players (Min, Ryung, Alicia, MMA) while EG hasn't. It creates this notion that EG is just a weak team that buys success rather than cultivates it themselves. Edit - It's also been proven, by Taeja and Ganzi, that players who join SlayerS improve a lot. The opposite can be said for EG and their acquisitions (exception being PuMa and Huk since it's too early).
Sometimes talent and the right mind (work ethic, determination) cannot be grown. Spending resources to develop your players can sometimes be detrimental and ultimately lead to the collapse of an organization. With that said, if you have an opportunity to bring on more talent and individuals who have the right mind set, you would be stupid not to.
There's a reason why every sport has a low percentage of superstar caliber players and a high percentages of low-mid tier players. Some players naturally want to work hard and improve while everyone else remains content. Those are the players you want to build around and acquire.
Also what happens when players like Machine and Axslav start improving now that they have a team house like slayers?
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On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument.
They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol.
Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week!
Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly.
Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team.
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On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team.
Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus.
The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument.
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On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument.
not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players
Also to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would...
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On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would...
You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. But hey, let's assume that ELO actually is an objectively perfect measurement of players, just to humor your argument. I count 6 SlayerS players (including Puzzle) in the top 40 players. That is about as far from a monopoly as you could be.
With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be willing to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere.
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On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would... You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere.
Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything 
ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc.
About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc).
Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm.
Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential.
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On September 02 2011 20:35 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would... You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere. Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc. About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc). Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm. Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential.
Polt being underrated is irrelevant in my direct comparison of him to MVP - you're dodging the question of whether or not you believe him to be superior to MVP.
Anyway, fine - you have your own opinions of how players should be ranked, and you obviously place lots of emphasis on more recent results and on the ELO. I respect that. With that said, my point about SlayerS only having 6 players in the top 40 ELO (sorry, seems you responded before I made that edit) still stands - nothing looks even remotely close to a "monopoly" that you talk about - right now, that's a purely empty worry. Coca having the most potential out of all the Zergs is also completely unfounded and is unprovable.
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Finally a non-terran player on SlayerS. Kidding, haha. Hopefully they'll use him though, instead of going 4T every time.
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On September 02 2011 20:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
Finally a non-terran player on SlayerS. Kidding, haha. Hopefully they'll use him though, instead of going 4T every time.
Thought the same. It appeared as if the mass-terran strategy was a gigantic weakness in the current GSTL. Also just for the sake of seeing something new.
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On September 02 2011 20:35 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would... You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere. Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc. About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc). Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm. Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential.
Puzzle is regarded as the best protoss yet how much as he won? How consistent has he been over a longer period of time? Seems like the fanbase of SC2 are very quick to hype a player that's been good for a short while, when it's way harder to stay on top for ages. Artosis hypes players left and right and many of them turn out to not be as good or consistent as he and the community was expecting.
Also predicting that MC will slump like Fruitdealer seems like pure bs as MC still got 2nd as IEM and shows good games still. Fruitdealer and MC are in completely different spots atm. MC is still good, has motivation and has been in a slight slump lately, Fruitdealer hasn't been good for a year now and doesn't seem to care much. Your arguments seem weak to me.
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At this rate all of Zenex will be on SlayerS within months.
Personally I'n indifferent to this. Good for SlayerS getting a new player, unfortunate for Zenex losing a good player.
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Cella is such a boss in pictures :D
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On September 02 2011 20:52 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 20:35 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would... You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere. Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc. About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc). Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm. Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential. Puzzle is regarded as the best protoss yet how much as he won? How consistent has he been over a longer period of time? Seems like the fanbase of SC2 are very quick to hype a player that's been good for a short while, when it's way harder to stay on top for ages. Artosis hypes players left and right and many of them turn out to not be as good or consistent as he and the community was expecting. Also predicting that MC will slump like Fruitdealer seems like pure bs as MC still got 2nd as IEM and shows good games still. Fruitdealer and MC are in completely different spots atm. MC is still good, has motivation and has been in a slight slump lately, Fruitdealer hasn't been good for a year now and doesn't seem to care much. Your arguments seem weak to me.
You can't forget that we foreigners don't get the full picture. As tastosis have pointed out numerous times, Puzzle is consistently considered one of the best players in the world over in Korea. All we get to see is GSL, obviously the koreans have a more enlightened perspective.
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On September 02 2011 20:58 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 20:52 karpo wrote:On September 02 2011 20:35 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players
EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players
Huge difference. Agreed. Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s). Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete. This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument. They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol. Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week! Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly. Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team. Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus. The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument. not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersAlso to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would... You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws. With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere. Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc. About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc). Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm. Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential. Puzzle is regarded as the best protoss yet how much as he won? How consistent has he been over a longer period of time? Seems like the fanbase of SC2 are very quick to hype a player that's been good for a short while, when it's way harder to stay on top for ages. Artosis hypes players left and right and many of them turn out to not be as good or consistent as he and the community was expecting. Also predicting that MC will slump like Fruitdealer seems like pure bs as MC still got 2nd as IEM and shows good games still. Fruitdealer and MC are in completely different spots atm. MC is still good, has motivation and has been in a slight slump lately, Fruitdealer hasn't been good for a year now and doesn't seem to care much. Your arguments seem weak to me. You can't forget that we foreigners don't get the full picture. As tastosis have pointed out numerous times, Puzzle is consistently considered one of the best players in the world over in Korea. All we get to see is GSL, obviously the koreans have a more enlightened perspective.
Yet Artosis himself has said that there's not much going on in competitive SC2 in korea beside the GSL, so are people basing this of ladder? I'm not saying he isn't good but the guy i quoted more or less said he was better than MC and that MC will slump in the same way Fruitdealer did. You gotta admit that that is pretty much just bullshit, right?
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Slayers protoss line up is sick now, Puzzle/Alicia both top protoss.
And guys just because they recruit 2 players doesn't make them EG. Their line up besides Puzzle and Coca is basically all homegrown.
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EPT
