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such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly 
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On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly
What? Which game did you observe? Is there a third stream I have missed? Every other terran than Innovation would have lost this game.
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On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly
Are you going to post here each time a Terran wins a game?
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On July 23 2013 20:01 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?
That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Why don't you try playing terran then... but here's a catch: use MMM but never make Vikings or ghosts in TvP. Take on storms + colossi with nothing but marines and tell us how far you managed to go. Oh, you're right: I left out vikings. Terran must be the epitome of skill because they get the hardest and most idiot-proof counter in the game.
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On July 23 2013 20:29 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:01 5unrise wrote:On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?
That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Why don't you try playing terran then... but here's a catch: use MMM but never make Vikings or ghosts in TvP. Take on storms + colossi with nothing but marines and tell us how far you managed to go. Oh, you're right: I left out vikings. Terran must be the epitome of skill because they get the hardest and most idiot-proof counter in the game.
Haha, I really enjoy your tears pls continue.
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On July 23 2013 20:29 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly Are you going to post here each time a Terran wins a game?
Nope, I didn't post when Maru won the first game in his set.
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On July 23 2013 20:04 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:00 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 19:54 saddaromma wrote:On July 23 2013 19:46 MTAC wrote:zerg builds 3 types of AOE-damager units, terran doesn't care and keep on building marine/marauder. Something is definitely wrong with this matchup. Okayyyyyyyyy.... So give us tanks that works. BF hellion/Hellbats works, but since we need marauder too it can be REALLY tricky if the zerg goes muta. Thor don't do their job, unless we have 8+ of them. Raven's AoE is kind of useless in TvZ before 20 minutes marks. Done with AoE. Mine is the best, not only because it's good, but also because it's the only one who's good. And, since we don't have AoE against a swarm style, we are compensating it by micro. So, if something is wrong in this matchup, it's not that terran don't use AoE beside mines, but maybe that other units than Bio/mine sucks? I am not saying terran is OP. Matchup is wrong design-wise, afaik RTS is a strategy game. An important aspect of strategy game is players should scout and decide which type of unit to build in order to fight the opponents army. Terran just builds MMMM vs everything and rely on their micro. For instance, infestors should be countered by ghosts, not with more MMM, (which in fact infestors are meant to counter). I suspect something is inherently wrong with bio. It outshines every other aspect of terran to the point that we're unable to see and change them. Ghosts have never been very good against infestors, even though it seems like they should be. You can double-snipe them, which isn't too bad, but infestors are frequently far enough back that you shouldn't have that opportunity. Terran is generally wanting to stim and kite backwards in any TvZ engagement, which means the ghosts will get left behind and get killed. Infestors are pretty large compared to high templar, so EMP can't catch very many of them. And cloak isn't that helpful because Zerg can fungal the ghost, both preventing it from advancing to snipe or EMP and revealing it so zerglings can kill it. Ghosts ZvT are mostly good for nuke harass, or I suppose sniping vipers. Thats what I'm talking about. You need to think even deeper. So , a-ha. MMM is good at stimming and kiting, and other terran units don't fit it. There is the glimpse of possible problem. Maybe stim-kiting should be redesigned in order to give other units some room. Ofc, MMM will become weak, but we can compensate it with buffing other types of units. Diversify the strategy, so that it won't be MMM all day long each day of year.
Okay. Terran has a whole other strategy that has historically been used in TvZ pretty frequently. Mech doesn't depend on kiting at all (it's literally incapable of it), and yet ghosts are still bad. This isn't because MMM is too strong, it's because since the snipe nerf, ghosts have been completely awful in TvZ. Their only role is countering infestors, and they're not even very good at that.
If you don't think bio+mine is very fun, that's fine. But that's not really a design problem with the game, it's just a personal preference of yours. Terrans typically (obviously a huge generalization) make bio+hellion -> bio+mine -> ravens/vikings -> BC's. This is pretty similar to Zergs going ling -> ling+bane -> ling+bane+muta -> ling+bane+viper+ultralisk -> ultralisk/broodlord+infestor. And if someone complained "this matchup is dumb, Zerg can just make ling/bane/mutalisk every game and win," that'd be a dumb complaint.
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On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly
Burrowed lings are cute and all, but clumping all the banelings together and rolling up a ramp where he knew there'd be widow mines is not "almost perfect" play. If I clump all my marines together and dash into a psi storm, it doesn't matter how good my reaper harass was.
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On July 23 2013 19:56 MTAC wrote:Show nested quote +That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Thor don't do their job against air. Tanks don't do their job against ground (better DPS unsieged when it comes down to toss units who are large and everything that isn't armored). Pure mech is easily abusable by other races, but in an only mech player (who is using mech in every game in every matchup, it can work, at least below pro-level). Ghost EMP is worst than tanks or marauder against Zerg, and have no use against anything else. Snipe scroll trick is usuable against Ultra/BL now, but it uses so much APM that you can't split and have NO dps against banes/lings. And ultra still butchers your army. So no ghost TvZ, oh: as Viper aren't psionic, vikings are stille better than ghost in this situation. Terrans aren't using anything else than quad-M or MMMHB or MMMVG because the other things are just good to troll worst players, or creating a weird timing in a pro prepared match. Edit: I'm all for buffs in mechs/air/ghost units cost/supply/efficiency while removing some power in MMM. Pure mech could be cool, but Biomech plays were the bests things to use in TvZ, and TvT marine/tank vs marine/tank, or Biotank/bio against mech are still the bests strategic matchs you can watch in SC2. If changes of mech units forces mech play in TvT. I don't care if other TvX match-ups became Strategic. Dude, you're in denial. You remind me of someone who does something dumb and then comes up with an endless list of implausible excuses to justify it.
I watch Starcraft and you can't bullshit me on this. Ghosts are extremely effective units against Zerg if used correctly, as they nullify infestors and then you can get your MMM and backpeddle indefinitely against ultralisks. Thors have all kinds of uses if you take care of them. Siege tanks are the best defensive units in the game. Position them correctly and you can turtle up to a battlecruiser-raven deathball that can't be beaten by any composition.
I realize it's hard to use these units, but guess what? That's life. It's not easy to defend against medivac drops, but Zerg and Protoss just have to grind their teeth and get on with it.
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On July 23 2013 20:34 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:04 saddaromma wrote:On July 23 2013 20:00 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 19:54 saddaromma wrote:On July 23 2013 19:46 MTAC wrote:zerg builds 3 types of AOE-damager units, terran doesn't care and keep on building marine/marauder. Something is definitely wrong with this matchup. Okayyyyyyyyy.... So give us tanks that works. BF hellion/Hellbats works, but since we need marauder too it can be REALLY tricky if the zerg goes muta. Thor don't do their job, unless we have 8+ of them. Raven's AoE is kind of useless in TvZ before 20 minutes marks. Done with AoE. Mine is the best, not only because it's good, but also because it's the only one who's good. And, since we don't have AoE against a swarm style, we are compensating it by micro. So, if something is wrong in this matchup, it's not that terran don't use AoE beside mines, but maybe that other units than Bio/mine sucks? I am not saying terran is OP. Matchup is wrong design-wise, afaik RTS is a strategy game. An important aspect of strategy game is players should scout and decide which type of unit to build in order to fight the opponents army. Terran just builds MMMM vs everything and rely on their micro. For instance, infestors should be countered by ghosts, not with more MMM, (which in fact infestors are meant to counter). I suspect something is inherently wrong with bio. It outshines every other aspect of terran to the point that we're unable to see and change them. Ghosts have never been very good against infestors, even though it seems like they should be. You can double-snipe them, which isn't too bad, but infestors are frequently far enough back that you shouldn't have that opportunity. Terran is generally wanting to stim and kite backwards in any TvZ engagement, which means the ghosts will get left behind and get killed. Infestors are pretty large compared to high templar, so EMP can't catch very many of them. And cloak isn't that helpful because Zerg can fungal the ghost, both preventing it from advancing to snipe or EMP and revealing it so zerglings can kill it. Ghosts ZvT are mostly good for nuke harass, or I suppose sniping vipers. Thats what I'm talking about. You need to think even deeper. So , a-ha. MMM is good at stimming and kiting, and other terran units don't fit it. There is the glimpse of possible problem. Maybe stim-kiting should be redesigned in order to give other units some room. Ofc, MMM will become weak, but we can compensate it with buffing other types of units. Diversify the strategy, so that it won't be MMM all day long each day of year. Okay. Terran has a whole other strategy that has historically been used in TvZ pretty frequently. Mech doesn't depend on kiting at all (it's literally incapable of it), and yet ghosts are still bad. This isn't because MMM is too strong, it's because since the snipe nerf, ghosts have been completely awful in TvZ. Their only role is countering infestors, and they're not even very good at that. If you don't think bio+mine is very fun, that's fine. But that's not really a design problem with the game, it's just a personal preference of yours. Terrans typically (obviously a huge generalization) make bio+hellion -> bio+mine -> ravens/vikings -> BC's. This is pretty similar to Zergs going ling -> ling+bane -> ling+bane+muta -> ling+bane+viper+ultralisk -> ultralisk/broodlord+infestor. And if someone complained "this matchup is dumb, Zerg can just make ling/bane/mutalisk every game and win," that'd be a dumb complaint.
If you refuse to see it I can't help you.
Muta/baneling doesn't win ZvT, zerg needs to transition to ultras/infestors. While Terran keeps on building MMM, and there is never a reason to change that. Thats not a personal preference, its how the game is designed. Do you think pros build MMM because they like it or its more comfortable? And stop with the all 'its historically how TvZ is played'. I call it bullshit, if not, then show me why Terran doesn't mech in PvT? History doesn't matter there?
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On July 23 2013 20:36 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly Burrowed lings are cute and all, but clumping all the banelings together and rolling up a ramp where he knew there'd be widow mines is not "almost perfect" play. If I clump all my marines together and dash into a psi storm, it doesn't matter how good my reaper harass was.
What should've soulkey done? Leave the natural uncontested?
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On July 23 2013 20:23 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 19:50 Glorfindel! wrote:On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?
That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Haha, this post..  Terran Tier 3 is easy to reach vs Protoss? I mean, you so often have the time to sit behind walls and tech the 3/3 Raven - BC fleets. And even if you have time to do it im quite sure Tempest is an okay answer to BCs. Saying Terran whine is to be taken with some salt because they dont make the tier3 units they are not able to reach is like saying Protoss is complaining in vain when they dont use the feared Carrier rush or +0+3 DT max out Great logic. You could have said this about brood-infestor. You could say this about any deathball composition. Except that the other races don't turtle as well as Terran because they don't get planetary fortresses, bunkers and siege tanks. Enough of making apologies for the demographic of Modern Warfare players that never had to pass through a filtering process because they get free detection, free emergency supplies, a noob-friendly wall-off and much else, and didn't need to learn anything until gold because they could win matches just by spamming marines.
This sounds a lot like "waaah Terran OP!" It's not relevant to high-level balance at all.
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On July 23 2013 20:29 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:01 5unrise wrote:On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?
That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Why don't you try playing terran then... but here's a catch: use MMM but never make Vikings or ghosts in TvP. Take on storms + colossi with nothing but marines and tell us how far you managed to go. Oh, you're right: I left out vikings. Terran must be the epitome of skill because they get the hardest and most idiot-proof counter in the game.
You are really good at using big words like 'epitome' and 'idiot-proof', but in human communication what is more important than getting words out is to make sure what you say actually make sense.
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On July 23 2013 20:41 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:36 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly Burrowed lings are cute and all, but clumping all the banelings together and rolling up a ramp where he knew there'd be widow mines is not "almost perfect" play. If I clump all my marines together and dash into a psi storm, it doesn't matter how good my reaper harass was. What should've soulkey done? Leave the natural uncontested?
Just attack earlier, so you don't have to attack up the ramp.
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So we're back at terran OP, MMM OP, mules OP, it's 2010 all over again !
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On July 23 2013 20:40 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:34 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 20:04 saddaromma wrote:On July 23 2013 20:00 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 19:54 saddaromma wrote:On July 23 2013 19:46 MTAC wrote:zerg builds 3 types of AOE-damager units, terran doesn't care and keep on building marine/marauder. Something is definitely wrong with this matchup. Okayyyyyyyyy.... So give us tanks that works. BF hellion/Hellbats works, but since we need marauder too it can be REALLY tricky if the zerg goes muta. Thor don't do their job, unless we have 8+ of them. Raven's AoE is kind of useless in TvZ before 20 minutes marks. Done with AoE. Mine is the best, not only because it's good, but also because it's the only one who's good. And, since we don't have AoE against a swarm style, we are compensating it by micro. So, if something is wrong in this matchup, it's not that terran don't use AoE beside mines, but maybe that other units than Bio/mine sucks? I am not saying terran is OP. Matchup is wrong design-wise, afaik RTS is a strategy game. An important aspect of strategy game is players should scout and decide which type of unit to build in order to fight the opponents army. Terran just builds MMMM vs everything and rely on their micro. For instance, infestors should be countered by ghosts, not with more MMM, (which in fact infestors are meant to counter). I suspect something is inherently wrong with bio. It outshines every other aspect of terran to the point that we're unable to see and change them. Ghosts have never been very good against infestors, even though it seems like they should be. You can double-snipe them, which isn't too bad, but infestors are frequently far enough back that you shouldn't have that opportunity. Terran is generally wanting to stim and kite backwards in any TvZ engagement, which means the ghosts will get left behind and get killed. Infestors are pretty large compared to high templar, so EMP can't catch very many of them. And cloak isn't that helpful because Zerg can fungal the ghost, both preventing it from advancing to snipe or EMP and revealing it so zerglings can kill it. Ghosts ZvT are mostly good for nuke harass, or I suppose sniping vipers. Thats what I'm talking about. You need to think even deeper. So , a-ha. MMM is good at stimming and kiting, and other terran units don't fit it. There is the glimpse of possible problem. Maybe stim-kiting should be redesigned in order to give other units some room. Ofc, MMM will become weak, but we can compensate it with buffing other types of units. Diversify the strategy, so that it won't be MMM all day long each day of year. Okay. Terran has a whole other strategy that has historically been used in TvZ pretty frequently. Mech doesn't depend on kiting at all (it's literally incapable of it), and yet ghosts are still bad. This isn't because MMM is too strong, it's because since the snipe nerf, ghosts have been completely awful in TvZ. Their only role is countering infestors, and they're not even very good at that. If you don't think bio+mine is very fun, that's fine. But that's not really a design problem with the game, it's just a personal preference of yours. Terrans typically (obviously a huge generalization) make bio+hellion -> bio+mine -> ravens/vikings -> BC's. This is pretty similar to Zergs going ling -> ling+bane -> ling+bane+muta -> ling+bane+viper+ultralisk -> ultralisk/broodlord+infestor. And if someone complained "this matchup is dumb, Zerg can just make ling/bane/mutalisk every game and win," that'd be a dumb complaint. If you refuse to see it I can't help you. Muta/baneling doesn't win ZvT, zerg needs to transition to ultras/infestors. While Terran keeps on building MMM, and there is never a reason to change that. Thats not a personal preference, its how the game is designed. Do you think pros build MMM because they like it or its more comfortable? And stop with the all 'its historically how TvZ is played'. I call it bullshit, if not, then show me why Terran doesn't mech in PvT? History doesn't matter there?
They don't necessarily build MMM all game. MMM is pretty bad against turtle -> infestor/broodlord w/ mass static defense. And "historically used in TvZ" was to reference that even in mech TvZ, ghosts are still bad against infestors. I only said "historically" because nobody mechs any more because of vipers. Terran doesn't mech PvT because the only time pure mech was any good in PvT was when strike cannons were a cooldown ability so you could prevent immortals from hard countering your entire composition. There's virtually no history of mech in TvP besides some all-ins, unless you go back to brood war.
Can't help me to see what? That MMM is a good composition? Or that it's pretty good all game? Zerglings are good all game, too, but I don't see why units need to have a timer on them after which they aren't good any more.
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On July 23 2013 20:41 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:36 ChristianS wrote:On July 23 2013 20:26 saddaromma wrote:such a sloppy play by innovation and he still wins soulkey who played almost perfectly Burrowed lings are cute and all, but clumping all the banelings together and rolling up a ramp where he knew there'd be widow mines is not "almost perfect" play. If I clump all my marines together and dash into a psi storm, it doesn't matter how good my reaper harass was. What should've soulkey done? Leave the natural uncontested?
I was referring to at the ramp by his third base when he lost all his banelings and lost that base as a result. And don't pretend there aren't other things Zerg can do there. He can split his banelings. He can tank hits with zerglings or overlords or overseers. He can back out, because there's no reason he has to engage there. He was in a winning position, and then he did literally the worst thing you can do with your banelings besides selecting them all and hitting 'x'.
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On July 23 2013 20:40 GreenGringo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 19:56 MTAC wrote:That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Thor don't do their job against air. Tanks don't do their job against ground (better DPS unsieged when it comes down to toss units who are large and everything that isn't armored). Pure mech is easily abusable by other races, but in an only mech player (who is using mech in every game in every matchup, it can work, at least below pro-level). Ghost EMP is worst than tanks or marauder against Zerg, and have no use against anything else. Snipe scroll trick is usuable against Ultra/BL now, but it uses so much APM that you can't split and have NO dps against banes/lings. And ultra still butchers your army. So no ghost TvZ, oh: as Viper aren't psionic, vikings are stille better than ghost in this situation. Terrans aren't using anything else than quad-M or MMMHB or MMMVG because the other things are just good to troll worst players, or creating a weird timing in a pro prepared match. Edit: I'm all for buffs in mechs/air/ghost units cost/supply/efficiency while removing some power in MMM. Pure mech could be cool, but Biomech plays were the bests things to use in TvZ, and TvT marine/tank vs marine/tank, or Biotank/bio against mech are still the bests strategic matchs you can watch in SC2. If changes of mech units forces mech play in TvT. I don't care if other TvX match-ups became Strategic. Dude, you're in denial. You remind me of someone who does something dumb and then comes up with an endless list of implausible excuses to justify it. I watch Starcraft and you can't bullshit me on this. Ghosts are extremely effective units against Zerg if used correctly, as they nullify infestors and then you can get your MMM and backpeddle indefinitely against ultralisks. Thors have all kinds of uses if you take care of them. Siege tanks are the best defensive units in the game. Position them correctly and you can turtle up to a battlecruiser-raven deathball that can't be beaten by any composition. I realize it's hard to use these units, but guess what? That's life. It's not easy to defend against medivac drops, but Zerg and Protoss just have to grind their teeth and get on with it.
The only time I've seen ghosts be effective in TvZ was when Gumiho used them. I've watched several other pro games where they just get killed immediately. As for thors and siege tanks, they're decent, depending on the circumstance, but they're easily counterable. Lings clean up thors very cost efficiently, and the thors are usually too slow to escape. And siege tanks formed the backbone of TvZ in WoL, where Terrans didn't do too well. They're simply not as effective as mines at doing anything but turtling up behind two or three bases. If you want to play three base turtle Terran into BC/Raven against a 5-6 base Zerg, go ahead. If the Zerg is competent, you'll probably lose.
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On July 23 2013 20:43 Terrasmith wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:23 GreenGringo wrote:On July 23 2013 19:50 Glorfindel! wrote:On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?
That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.
You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells. Haha, this post.. Terran Tier 3 is easy to reach vs Protoss? I mean, you so often have the time to sit behind walls and tech the 3/3 Raven - BC fleets. And even if you have time to do it im quite sure Tempest is an okay answer to BCs. Saying Terran whine is to be taken with some salt because they dont make the tier3 units they are not able to reach is like saying Protoss is complaining in vain when they dont use the feared Carrier rush or +0+3 DT max out Great logic. You could have said this about brood-infestor. You could say this about any deathball composition. Except that the other races don't turtle as well as Terran because they don't get planetary fortresses, bunkers and siege tanks. Enough of making apologies for the demographic of Modern Warfare players that never had to pass through a filtering process because they get free detection, free emergency supplies, a noob-friendly wall-off and much else, and didn't need to learn anything until gold because they could win matches just by spamming marines. This sounds a lot like "waaah Terran OP!" It's not relevant to high-level balance at all. Quite frankly, it is relevant.
People like MarineKing spammed bioball and got to a high level, but never as high as MVP who is the Emperor of SC2. I'm saying he's the Emperor because he works out his own builds and abuses mech.
You can't just assume that they have infinite creativity at the top level, because clearly they don't. If Terrans were as creative as Rain, Parting and Leenock, we have every reason to believe that the game would be heavily weighted in favour of Terran.
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On July 23 2013 20:50 Terrasmith wrote:
If you want to play three base turtle Terran into BC/Raven against a 5-6 base Zerg, go ahead. If the Zerg is competent, you'll probably lose. Tell that to Idra, who thinks that build is unbeatable.
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EPT
