Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 569

zerg builds 3 types of AOE-damager units, terran doesn't care and keep on building marine/marauder. Something is definitely wrong with this matchup.

On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 19:37 saddaromma wrote:
zerg builds 3 types of AOE-damager units, terran doesn't care and keep on building marine/marauder. Something is definitely wrong with this matchup.

On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 19:46 MTAC wrote:


Okayyyyyyyyy....
So give us tanks that works. BF hellion/Hellbats works, but since we need marauder too it can be REALLY tricky if the zerg goes muta. Thor don't do their job, unless we have 8+ of them. Raven's AoE is kind of useless in TvZ before 20 minutes marks.
Done with AoE. Mine is the best, not only because it's good, but also because it's the only one who's good. And, since we don't have AoE against a swarm style, we are compensating it by micro.

So, if something is wrong in this matchup, it's not that terran don't use AoE beside mines, but maybe that other units than Bio/mine sucks?

On July 23 2013 19:48 spalding wrote:

Terrans would use their Tier 3 units if they were viable but BCs and Thors are just terrible against Protoss. If the tier 1 units weren't as strong, Terran would be hopeless.

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 19:48 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:


The ability of Terran to easily produce basic units in large numbers has been a core mechanic since BW.

Unless you are designer with greater credentials of the current design team, I strongly suggest you not blame the game when it's obvious you fail at maintaining production to supply your front line of units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Browder

On July 23 2013 19:54 saddaromma wrote:


I am not saying terran is OP. Matchup is wrong design-wise, afaik RTS is a strategy game. An important aspect of strategy game is players should scout and decide which type of unit to build in order to fight the opponents army. Terran just builds MMMM vs everything and rely on their micro. For instance, infestors should be countered by ghosts, not with more MMM, (which in fact infestors are meant to counter).

I suspect something is inherently wrong with bio. It outshines every other aspect of terran to the point that we're unable to see and change them.

On July 23 2013 19:43 GreenGringo wrote:
One of the problems with debating balance is that Terrans literally aren't using half their units. They don't use ghosts, because why would you want to learn how to use a caster when you can win matches at the highest level with a simple bioball that you've been using for the last 4 years? They have an unbeatable deathball in battlecruisers and ravens, but who has the patience to play turtle like a Protoss?

That's why any balance argument made by Terrans has to be taken with a pinch of salt. They have the luxury and the privilege of being able to stay on marines, marauders, medivacs (perhaps with some hellbats thrown in) and yet remain competitive.

You have to wonder what's going on with the game when one race can spam T1 units the entire match whereas the other has to work out complex timings and depend on units with spells.

On July 23 2013 20:00 ChristianS wrote:

Ghosts have never been very good against infestors, even though it seems like they should be. You can double-snipe them, which isn't too bad, but infestors are frequently far enough back that you shouldn't have that opportunity. Terran is generally wanting to stim and kite backwards in any TvZ engagement, which means the ghosts will get left behind and get killed. Infestors are pretty large compared to high templar, so EMP can't catch very many of them. And cloak isn't that helpful because Zerg can fungal the ghost, both preventing it from advancing to snipe or EMP and revealing it so zerglings can kill it. Ghosts ZvT are mostly good for nuke harass, or I suppose sniping vipers.

On July 23 2013 19:55 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:


It is by design. Since BW, BCs, Science Vessels and Valkyrie were all designed as support units to the siege tank/goliath/marine/dropship backbone. Terran T3 units are designed as specialist unit counts to compositions.

Terran Strategy

On July 23 2013 20:04 saddaromma wrote:


Thats what I'm talking about. You need to think even deeper.
So , a-ha. MMM is good at stimming and kiting, and other terran units don't fit it. There is the glimpse of possible problem. Maybe stim-kiting should be redesigned in order to give other units some room. Ofc, MMM will become weak, but we can compensate it with buffing other types of units. Diversify the strategy, so that it won't be MMM all day long each day of year.

On July 23 2013 19:50 Glorfindel! wrote:


Haha, this post..

Terran Tier 3 is easy to reach vs Protoss?
I mean, you so often have the time to sit behind walls and tech the 3/3 Raven - BC fleets.
And even if you have time to do it im quite sure Tempest is an okay answer to BCs.

Saying Terran whine is to be taken with some salt because they dont make the tier3 units they are not able to reach is like saying Protoss is complaining in vain when they dont use the feared Carrier rush or +0+3 DT max out